Lets be Honest about Hamas and Israel...

Well either you posted anonymously or you nicked someone elses idea.

Anonymous Post

But anyway my reply to that post was.

Anyone who has a problem with Israel targeting HAMAS please state your country and tell me what you think your government would have done if 80 rockets a day were shot at civilians.

I'm in the UK and we have a similar situation where we invaded another country, have occupied it and the civilian population keeps being killed by terrorists. You may have heard of it? Northern Ireland

But I don't remember the RAF bombing anyone?

and to your second point

Islam is the only Religion that did not modernize in the past 300 years and the only religion in the world with extreme views similar to the crusades in the middle ages

and the old testament was published when?

Lets not forget 9/11 or the targeting of western countries including France, England and Spain.

Nor western countries invading Muslim countries and supporting Israel.
Wasn't it France who provided Israel with nuclear technology?

reply to post by pexx421


Sinai ring any bells? Captured in 1967 and Israel pulled out in 1982 after a peace treaty with Egypt in 1979.

History books, priceless and everywhere you want to be, for everything else there is Google.

I'm over this stuff, let Israel go to war with all the Arab states on their own and if they come out at the end of it victors so be it but I strongly suspect they would be on the wrong end of an "Ass Whooping" and would eventually drop their Nukes.

The sooner that region of the world is vapour and gases the sooner we can put in the back of our mind WW3 and Armageddon.....the rest of the world just needs to do nothing and sit back and let these idiots fight it out and finish it themselves.

Originally posted by Dracula23
Israel is targeting Hamas militants, while hamas is shooting rockets at civilians. Only in World War 2 did countries target civilians.

Really? If Israel is targeting Hamas, does that mean there has been zero civilian casualty? Israel has been using collective punishment - i.e. bombing an entire building full of civilians to take out one guy.

Which side has caused more civilian murders?

It's ok for Israel's goverment to kill civilians when targeting Hammas soldiers, but when the Palestinian goverment kills civilians when trying to targets Israeli soldiers it's wrong?

Islam is the only Religion that did not modernize in the past 300 years and the only religion in the world with extreme views similar to the crusades in the middle ages.

Did you create this topic to bash Palestinians or Islam? In the last 300 years, which religion has started the largest or most wars?

[edit on 29-12-2008 by DJMessiah]

hi there
Islam is the ugliest religion present . But
after 11 9 there was so much histery
after , presumably well known about before atack,I mean by some like some Jewish people...and the same time there was non stop palestinians children dying. Actually I hate stupidity of that peoples sending their kids when they fire theyr guns to demonstrate something...what? but anyway..human is human.
How many children of palestine died in that year of "big terrorist action"?!
White people need to find the way to surviwe!!!! But... not this way . Stop political corectness and say!!!!
Enough.

Peace Stanley Kovalsky

reply to post by czacza

except such a blind brainwashed people like you.

If the kitchen is too hot for you, stay out of it. No need to revert to labeling people.

what damage the Israelis made to Palestinians? they took all their hopes for any future. enough to fire back?

Israelis have caused psychological damage on the Palestinians as well but they never took their hope for the future away. You can thank the PLO and Hamas for that. Instead of educating their people to hate , kill, and destroy Israel, they should have given them an education in basic fundamentals so that their people could prosper more.

reply to post by on_yur_6

Everytime Israel gives back land what happens? Do attacks increase or decrease? The attacks increase. Screw world opinion because it has always been antisemitic. Protect your citizens first.

Here is the long and short of it my friend. Zionist terrorism turned what was to be a third party administrated British Mandate of Palestine into an all out land grab where innocent people on both sides were killed, at times by their own people, at times by the other side.

Maybe the Zionists should have not waged a terror campaign against the British and sought to undermine the accords from the onset that led to the legalization of immigration to Palestine for Jews.

A disproportionate number of indigenous Arabs lost property and loved ones in many of the heavy handed and vicious maneuvers Zionists pursued their ‘run all the Arabs out’ policy with.

You know as well as I do that to date, not one penny of compensation has been paid to Arabs for property confiscated. You know as well as I do that even yes, while other Arab nations futility tried to enter in where the British and the United Nations fell far short in carrying out its obligations, that scores of entirely peaceful Arab Villages and villagers were uprooted at gunpoint even though they were not taking part in the hostilities. You know as well as I do many of those people were forced out of their homes with nothing but the clothes on their back, never paid a penny for their homes and lands and often brutally murdered in the process.

We can pretend for the sake of Israeli propaganda that those things didn’t happen.

The problem is the victims who survived those atrocities can’t pretend they didn’t happen. Nor can they pretend they have ever been offered anything even remotely close to what they were promised in the UN British Mandate to encourage them to go along with legalized Jewish immigration into their lands.

It’s going to take a generation or two of people who haven’t had an immediate loved one murdered in heavy handed Israeli actions and responses.

To date you have never left an attempt at Palestinian self government take hold, a Palestinian security force take complete shape or the two to work in tandem to root out disaffected angry citizens suffering the residual emotional effects of the traumas of so much Israeli violence and theft. Whether it’s the Fatah PLO or Hamas, Israel herself founded to counter them, Israel will not give those people a fair chance to govern them selves and to establish self security that gives Israel security. You know full well scores of Israeli settlers have never been prosecuted for murder of Palestinian citizens. Yet you expect each newly installed Palestinian government and its associated security apparatus to be 100% immediately effective within short months after you wipe out the infrastructure of the preceding one you decided you wanted to replace with bombs and tanks causing even more resentment and anger.

You can pretend differently to appease your conscious and fuel what ever personal loss you to might have suffered in that struggle. You can ask the media to pretend for you and for the American Government to pretend for you, and it’s misinformed citizens to pretend for you too. In fact so many people can pretend it’s true for self serving reasons as to believe denying all the facts is true.

Who can’t pretend it’s true? The Palestinians forced to live on rationed handouts, in cramped and squalid densely packed areas, bereft of any free economy or ability to foster any kind of trade, while there children often go hungry, and continue to lament generations of family members killed before their time, all the while knowing, not one real form of compensation, redress or even apology has ever been offered them, as they are told they are lucky to have an opportunity to settle for so much less than was promised to them before the Zionist immigration turned into a Zionist terror campaign to steal all the land and drive them from it.

You want real peace I suggest you suck it up a while, leave what ever form of government Palestinians freely elect in place unmolested from Israel’s security and intelligence apparatus, expand their land holdings to sustainable lands capable of supporting their numbers and an economy, and then vacate a little more land in what was their land anyway to create a buffer zone like you have with Lebanon and Syria, and then try some real humanitarian aide, assistance, cross cultural learning, and trade programs for a generation or two and just keep pressing through diplomatic channels that Palestinians apprehend and punish those decreasing numbers of disaffected militant types until time heals the deep wounds Israeli shortsightedness, greed, theft, treachery and murder that has led to such animosity. America really is tired of it.

reply to post by czacza


You said ask why they are firing rockets? Ok, because they are terrorist scum and now they are getting the butt kicking they deserve. Israel held back in the last conflict, and I pray this time they let it loose and wipe these cockroaches off the face of the planet.

Peace.

They need to realise that they will never win. Only that way will they come to the negotiation table. Only that way will they be able to pull their people to a peace because only that way will their people realise that they need to overcome the pain that one of yours dead equals three of theirs, and vice versa.

reply to post by MegaCurious




WOW! I'm a white American and I have never, ever, even remotely considered myself Jewish. What the hell are you talking about? Come on now.

reply to post by jam321


sorry for the "brainwashed" stuff.

and back to the topic. it were Israelis (and in fact Europeans who decided that Israel will be on the Palestine territory) who first took the palestinians land, than took their freedom, work, destroyed the factories, houses, killed as many as possible (it is 2 israelis killed on every 100 palestinians vitims), and finally isolated them from the rest of the world. tell me what chances are thet young boy from Gaza area is going to study at the university instead of becoming the Hamas or another fraction soldier?

reply to post by czacza


The land has always been disputed as to who was there first and who has rights to it. Bottom line, it is what it is. As long as they keep fighting this battle, there will be no peace. As far as isolating them, well, many Arabs states don't seem to remember the Palestinians anyway unless incidents like these happen. Point blank, they are wrong on both sides on many issues,. As far as education, I would like to see the leaders of the Palestinians encouraging their kids to become doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers to help progress the area they have. Leave out the hate. These folks deserve more than what their leaders are telling them. Many of these people could be the next doctors who create cures for current diseases, inventors, world leaders. But instead they are taught to hate Israel and join a group that wants to hurt Israel. What a waste of intelligence.

Sleepy, appreciate the tone. You bring up some good points and although we don't agree in some areas, I think we both want peace in the area.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by czacza

 

I think we both want peace in the area.

sure I do. but frankly I do not see any light in a tunnel.

I only hope it will not spread on the other area. from this conflict everything could come out. all the alliances are possible. teoretically it could be even conflict US/Israel - UN/Palestine...

again, and for the last time. For many palestinians it is NOT a land dispute.... its a question of survival. You can say "the palestinians need to realize they cannot win, that will drive them to the table" ....the table of WHAT?! Of accepting that they will never have anything better in life than israeli oppression and violence? Of having no choice but to starve when israel says starve, and only medicine when israel decides its ok for them to have medicine? That you should wish such a thing upon anyone, and in the name of "peace"

Originally posted by Dracula23

Putting aside the past, which we all can argue for decades, lets look at the present sutiation:

Putting aside the past and acting it never happend is the only way you can create a picture where Hamas is the only bad guy and Israel is in its right.

Israel is out to purge the palestinian people from their land and will stop at nothing and will leave no excuse unused to achieve that goal.

They created an environment of pure desperation for the palestinians, who are fighting for their survival as a people.

In my opinion, its actually incredible that all Hamas and more importantly, the palestinian people, have done so far is toss a couple of rockets over the border.

If the US would suddenly decide to relocate and squieze all Native Americans into the american South East (New Orleans area) and then built massive fenses all around it and blocked all, including the bare basic supplies from reaching the area, You would have a full out war within weeks.

If the US would suddenly decide to relocate and squieze all Native Americans into the american South East (New Orleans area) and then built massive fenses all around it and blocked all, including the bare basic supplies from reaching the area, You would have a full out war within weeks.

Ummmm this basically already happened.

Thats my point, how did that fare?
It did end with the near erradication of the indians, but some were left in the end and the US is still paying for it.

Israel won't make the mistake of leaving anyone alive.

reply to post by thematrix


Well we are way off topic now but it fared extremely bad for the Native population at that time. I have Cherokee roots so I have a good insight to all of that. As of now many tribes are profiting hand over fist off of everyone else. Our governor opened the door to Indain gaming a few years ago and there are over 90 casinos in Oklahoma. The Cherokee Nation alone had more revenue than the state last year!

Anyway that arguement doesn't really apply because it all boils down to the land arguement in Palestine.

I'm with many on these boards that is sick of all the mess over there. As long as there are multiple religions clinging to the same soil there will be no peace until there is a victor. How did Metallica put it.... Sad but true.

I had to edit to comment on the part about Israel not leaving anyone alive. Again that is BS. If they wanted to kill everyone, how come the carpet bombing hasn't begun? Why didn't they just attack the first time a rocket was sent over after the last truce? Why wait for 1,000 more to hit your citizens? Israel could make that area a bunch of gravel in no time but they don't. Why waste smart bomb strikes?

Your comment holds zero water. Israel isn't out to eradicate any innocent person. The innocent bystanders are a horrible casualty but Israel isn't pulling punches against Hamas this time. Hamas has it coming. damn shame they were voted into power.

I hope they police sweep the area soon and get this over with. No more half ass operations run by politicians. We have seen enough of that in areas like Iraq. Show everyone how its done and protect your citizens Israel.



[edit on 30-12-2008 by on_yur_6]

reply to post by on_yur_6

No one here gets down to the basic nitty gritty. The Palestinians do not want "peace" as we in the west see it. During the cold war the Soviets defined 'peace" as an absence of opposition to communism. Palestinians define "peace" as an absence of Jews in the land called Israel. Just look at the posts from folks who are obviously pro palestinian if not Arab Muslims. The anti-jew rethoric is blatent. All the evidence you need is to look at the peace accords set out by Bill Clinton. Arafat walked on to the stage to sign the documents that would have created the free state that the Palestinians claim they want. Then he refused to sign the agreements!!! He refused because once that free state was established they have no excuse! They could not blame Israel for their own failure to prosper. They are seething in victimology. They are bathed in a culture that thrives on death and failure. All as an excuse for their inability and shortcomings. 60 years ago the nation of Israel was established in name only. How can you deny that for 1000's of years Jews lived in that land? So did other groups they shared it. Well then a little thing called WW1 happened and the Brits end up running the whole show. Jews and Arabs both fought the British and so in 1948 the Brits turn the whole thing over to split up and what happend?? ANYONE?? Arab contries attack the jews thats what happend and they got their clocks cleaned. They could not believe they got bested by dirty jews so we have for the last 60 years been forced to put up with the blathering of the Arab world making excuses and working themselves into such a racial insanity that they have built a death cult and a hatred of all Jews. They will stop at nothing to see the Jews pushed into the Med.

Well it aint going to happen. So man up stop strapping yourself with TNT buttplugs and get back to reality. You lost get over it and move on with what you have. THEY HAVE NUKES! You will not win! They will not go down without taking you with them. Maybe then the rest of us can get on with leaving the Muslim world in the middle ages.

reply to post by on_yur_6


All this rhetoric is a distraction in the end . The israeli's are after whats UNDER THE GAZA STRIP . the palestinians are in their way .

Whats the real reason for the endless warring over this scrubby # land with bugger all water and crap soil ? Only american dollars prop up this overpopulated waste land .

The zionists know whats under the gaza strip ,as do the American governement . Trouble is , we are not going to allow them to get their hands on it . Bummer .