Lets be Honest about Hamas and Israel...

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posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 


If the situation was so dire, why doesn't Egypt open their border and allow people from Gaza to cross?? 1. They don't want anymore terrorists inside their borders. 2. They don't care about their Arab brothers. 3. Israel will look like the bad guy for keeping their borders sealed but the media won't talk about Egypt doing the same.

The border is sealed with Israel for one reason. There is a high percentage of terrorist that wish to drive Israel off the map. Unlike Egypt, and other Arab countries, they are doing whatever they can to make that happen. Iran, Syria and others are perfectly happy sitting back and funding this mess.

Should Israel relax their security and go back to daily bus bombings? What would any of you do here?

Why won't Egypt take refugees?




posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 10:37 AM
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Why are rockets flying into israel in the first place?

I'd like someone with different viewpoints to answer that questions w/o saying the land was given by god as that will not fly for much longer in the world.

I was amazed when I saw Hammas is calling for israel to return boarders to what they were in 1967, not just saying GTFO. They want to boarders to go back to what was given to israel and not taken by israel.

Please retort.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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reply to post by breakingdradles
 




Why are rockets flying into israel in the first place?


That’s simple Zionist led a terrorist campaign against the British Mandate with the intention of defeating any effort to give the Palestinians a promised equitable portion of the territory, but to instead complete disenfranchise them and run them off the land.




I'd like someone with different viewpoints to answer that questions w/o saying the land was given by god as that will not fly for much longer in the world.


If someone wants to believe in ancient scripture spiritually based on concepts of the universe or right and wrong that’s great. It’s not a legal document though, nor a deed, nor validated in any tangible way to give it any credence as a legal mechanism to supersede the U.N. Accords that awarded half the land to Zionists and Jews and half the land to Palestinians that the Zionists and Jews have waged a relentless war on terror against the indigenous people they have tried so spuriously to disenfranchise through murder, torture, theft, privation and degradation.




I was amazed when I saw Hammas is calling for israel to return boarders to what they were in 1967, not just saying GTFO. They want to boarders to go back to what was given to israel and not taken by israel.


I think that was a major concession on the Palestinian’s part as the British Mandate allowed for the Israeli nation to possess and settle half the land.

The refusal of such a generous offer by Israel just further illustrates from the moment of the British Mandate on to today that the Zionists never had any intention of sharing the country, and will use any means necessary to make sure that they don’t.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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Hamas is a organisation that is fighting for its land stolen by the Israel people. come off it fella-- you want to say that Israel is a fair-- no but it really is not. If the majority of the people are muslims then they have a right to live and not be goverened by a minority.. The minority has not only take ordinary peoples land but also impose restriction on every thing. Energy , food, drink all is controlled by israel and the funnyt side is even 'Aid' that is offered by people of the world is also contrtolled by the israelee people.
The whole world knows how barbaric the israel people are and how they want to steal land owned by Palestinians for centuries. CCome out of cokko land and wake up to the harsh realities that have killed more people in any other conflict or genocide by the israleee people..



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by populardisbelief
 


well, Arafat's wife is Christian. but anyway I can imagine that Palestinians are using the Christian holidays to make bigger pressure on Israel (the 30 % of their budget is tourism so it can hurt). they are loosing a lot of money thanks to this. and MONEY is what they really loves...



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by jam321
 


please.... you are pretty funny to come up with such a argument. look on the other side than. what damage the Israelis made to Palestinians? they took all their hopes for any future. enough to fire back?

and for the record. I know a lot of Israelis is against what their govt and fellow citizens are doing to Palestine. as the most of the world is. except such a blind brainwashed people like you.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Who is firing rockets indiscriminately into civilan populations? Who is using smart bombs to hit their targets? Since everyone thinks Israel is so evil, Israel should just carpet bomb and get this over.

OBTW enough with the land grab bs. What is the Dome of the Rock built on top of????

Why did Israel extend its borders in the first place? Because the were under attack from Arab nations on every border. Surrendering the Golan Heights was the biggest mistake Israel has made in a long time.

How long would you wait to respond to someone shooting rockets indiscriminately into your backyard?

Why did the UN not step in prior to this retaliation and declare the rocket barrages as deplorable acts of terrorism?

Like I asked before what would you do if you were Israel?

The timing is important though. I have thought that Israel would do something prior to the Obama administration taking over. They have a few more days to rid the world of Hamas before Obama steps in and threatens to cut off funding, etc. Makes me wonder if Iran is going to finally get hit before Obama takes his throne?

[edit on 29-12-2008 by on_yur_6]



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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For a month now israel has forbidden media access to all international or local media into palestine. That right there invalidates any thing they say, and shows they have something to hide.
The palestinians are barely surviving, fighting for their very lives, and most of them have grown up through and lived with this all their lives. The israeli's situation is not even close to the same. The israeli's continually dehumanize and demoralize the palestinians, continually take more land from them, their settlers on the west bank continually inflict violence and hate upon the palestinians, and the soldiers at all the check points continually harass and torment the palestinians, its something they see every single day, something they can never get away from, and something they have absolutely no control over. It is natural for a people in such a situation to react with violence. It is apartheid. Now its known that many americans love and support apartheid, but please dont spread your hateful racist views here, with your quotes that the israeli's should just carpet bomb the palestinians. Carpet bomb is a horrible and terrifying thing, that most people cant truly envision in their minds, that destroys women, children, pets, infants, anything and everything, and that americans can blithely talk about it shows the hatred and inhumanity inherent in your system, that you espouse a terror that you know nothing about, that your nation has inflicted upon many others, but never had inflicted upon itself.
One of the sad facts of being the superpower, is that we rarely recognise the crimes in the things we do, and we rarely see the horror we inflict upon others....we see them as just normal things.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler
 


Everytime Israel gives back land what happens? Do attacks increase or decrease? The attacks increase. Screw world opinion because it has always been antisemitic. Protect your citizens first.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Dracula23
 


Hitler tried to eliminate the Jews because they were teachers,bankers, doctors, lawyers, chemists and other professonals in many fields plus loads of working stiffs. He was wrong and one peice of garbage.

To paraphrase Churchil" never in the field of human events has so much been given to so many and gotten so little."
This is the Muslims. They kill, lie, steal and do many, many venal acts all in the name of their God. they must be destroyed before they destroy western civilization.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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Im sorry, when has israel ever given back land?



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 01:44 PM
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I think your explanation of the current circumstances in the middle east is much to simple and does not cover all the issues.
Having said that. I do not have a solution to these problems.
But the most important thing out of all of this is one simple point.
It is not ok for "any" Government regardless of the provocation to assault civilians.

And my country of origin or where I reside is absolutely irrelevant. I speak as a human being with compassion for my fellow human beings and their children.

[edit on 29-12-2008 by foremanator]



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 01:51 PM
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While i agree, unfortunately it seems in our current world, governments are seldom able to work together for each others mutual benefit. Usually one government is using bullying or threat to profit at the expense of anothers, and unfortunately our standard method of war right now is to bomb the people (read civilians) into submission so they force their government to capitulate. This is what we did in vietnam, laos, cambodia, this is what we did in sudan, panama, and now iraq, where there are suspected of being near 1.2 million iraqi casualties and i guarantee most are not "jihadi's". Lets not forget afghanistan.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Hi everyone,


The Hamas is using the human shield strategy, this is why there are so many
civilian casualties whenever Israel wants to hit the Hamas. Palestinians should be the ones kicking the Hamas out because of their coward strategy & tactics.

Because if you think about it, who is killing it's own people ? The Hamas is...

If Palestinians want to be at war against Israel, well, build an army and go to war, don't use your children as a human shield or terrorist & missiles & rockets to hit civilians (some are Palestinians) on the other side.

I am with Israel on this one but I am also with the innocents on the other side being killed because of their coward leaders. If you support Hamas, then don't come crying at us because your family has been wiped out. You choosed and supported it.

To all Palestinians reading me, fight the Hamas first, they are the ones having you killed.

Cheers,
Europa














[edit on 29-12-2008 by Europa733]



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Build an army and go to war? What mindless dribble. Build an army of what? sticks and sand? It is shown in oppressed and poor populations that peoples under terror resort to using whatever weapons they have to hand. I would imagine that if they could afford anything practical suicide bombers would not be the preferred medium of communication. In all societies where the people have no way of striking out, and are hopelessly outmatched and oppressed, and dieing, they lash out with unconventional forms. This is what the US did during the revolutionary war, and we were castigated for it by the british. This is what the vietnamese did during our war there, and we berated them for it as well. When a situation is untenable people lash out with whatever they have, however impractical it may be, in such ways do women being raped lash out with fingernails and screaming....it may not accomplish much, but when its all you have, and its living or dieing, you use it.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by pexx421
Build an army and go to war? What mindless dribble. Build an army of what? sticks and sand? It is shown in oppressed and poor populations that peoples under terror resort to using whatever weapons they have to hand. I would imagine that if they could afford anything practical suicide bombers would not be the preferred medium of communication. In all societies where the people have no way of striking out, and are hopelessly outmatched and oppressed, and dieing, they lash out with unconventional forms. This is what the US did during the revolutionary war, and we were castigated for it by the british. This is what the vietnamese did during our war there, and we berated them for it as well. When a situation is untenable people lash out with whatever they have, however impractical it may be, in such ways do women being raped lash out with fingernails and screaming....it may not accomplish much, but when its all you have, and its living or dieing, you use it.


Hi there,

It's a good point but no matter how bad your situation is, if you use your kids as a shield, then you are worth than the worth enemy.

Now, don't tell me that the Hamas does not have weapons to fight back, I am not talking about sticks but ak-47, RPGs, hand grenades, etc...
Many arab countries can give them money to do so, Iranians would be more than happy to help them build an army.

It sure is nothing compared to the Israelis fighting power but at least they can try (and soon get their as-s kicked) and I (lots of us) won't regard them (the Hamas) as animals or worth because animals do not even do that.

Cheers,
Europa



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by on_yur_6
reply to post by mr-lizard
 


If the situation was so dire, why doesn't Egypt open their border and allow people from Gaza to cross?? 1. They don't want anymore terrorists inside their borders. 2. They don't care about their Arab brothers. 3. Israel will look like the bad guy for keeping their borders sealed but the media won't talk about Egypt doing the same.
You forgot another possibility, Egypt has not kept the borders closed, they offered help that was refused by Hamas, at least according to this Aljazeera article from yesterday.


Tensions at the crossing with Egypt, bypassing Israel, had risen during the day, with Egypt blaming Hamas for not letting wounded Palestinians through and Hamas asking for medical aid to be handed over.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


I hope that Egypt is stepping up but you have to consider the source.

You can see why Hamas wouldn't want to their human shields to leave.

I wouldn't want to be a lower ranking member of the Hamas party! I bet a bunch of them are gathering next to a hospital as I type just waiting on "paradise".



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by on_yur_6
reply to post by ArMaP
 


I hope that Egypt is stepping up but you have to consider the source.
I do not have any problems with the source, I have never seen a lie published by them (but I have to say that I rarely visit their site).



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by pexx421
Im sorry, when has israel ever given back land?


Many Jewish settlers were forcibly removed from the West Bank.

April 2002 Israel left most west Bank cities.

Bethlehem followed.


Following repeated Palestinian attacks, Israel in October 2000 unilaterally retreated from Joseph's Tomb and, with very few exceptions, banned Jews from returning to the site purportedly for security reasons.


Just google it. Each time land is given up in hopes for peace, "land for peace deals" the attacks become more intense.





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