What is Israel trying to hide?

oops! My bad.

I lost what I was typing.


[edit on 023131p://pm3157 by masonwatcher]

oops! My bad.

I lost what I was typing.

reply to post by ClintK


Let the Palestinians eat the mortars and rockets they manage to buy. After all - they are the ones who voted in a terrorist regime to govern them.

Jews and WW1

The German people were not unaware that the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution threatened their own national life. The historian Ernst Nolte and several other notable historians have argued that the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution was an important cause in Germany’s backlash against the Jews.

...

The famous stab-in-the-back legend soon began to circulate which rightly asserted that Germany had won the war in 1914, but had been betrayed by Jews who struck a deal with Britain to bring America into the war in exchange for the deed to Palestine.

I read the above (but more in depth) at another site on the net a few months ago. I can't find the original source now, but it made me rethink and understand how Germany could have turned on the Jews. I am not excusing what was done, just realizing how little we have been allowed to know. There is much more to the story than is told on this site. I also read that originally Palestine was promised to Arabs/Muslims. Sorry I don't have the original link but maybe there are others out there who can verify or debunk this.

reply to post by Mdv2


Oh the poor poor palestinians. I find it hard to compose any sympathy for their olive fields - let them eat their mortars and rockets instead. They are the ones who voted in a terrorist regime to lead their country. Sure, they will get sympathy and aid from other muslim countries BUT nobody wants them any more than the Israelis. I think Israel has put up with much more than any of the muslim countries would have.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Monsoon, Stop banging your pro Israeli drum, Israel is getting what it deserves. After decades or trying to wipe out the Palestinian people commting crimes against humanity people like you keep defending them.

So it s not OK for Palestinians who have no armed forces not to fight back, not to fight for their land or their lives, they should just let themsleves be liqudated by the jewish Nazis should they. Perhaps you can tell me what you would do if some one took you home and land, and your right to exist no doubt you would say they were right would you or would you fight back.

I think I know the answer you would fight back, you defend the right of the Israelis to protect themselves but not the other way round how courageous of you.

We will start with your TAC violating insult-I am not banging a war drum.

If we are speaking of crimes, how about the HAmas intentionally targeting civilians with rockets, mortars and suicide bombers-THESE ARE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

More on crimes, how about teaching their children nothing but hate and murdering-MY GOD!!!!!!

Yes, I dare speak out and say that is WRONG, no if's ands or buts.

Clearly the Palestinians DO have weapons, bombs, mortars..........
Clearly they want them more than food or medicine-as that what they get in.

To that point, if they did not attack, they would not be counter attacked, so simple.

They were cut off from Israel due to THEIR suicide bombing of women and children, which they intentionally target-SPEAK ABOUT CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!!

Let’s look at your last point, the right to exist. Hamas says Israel and all her people have no right to exist-SPEAK ABOUT A CRIME AGAIST HUMANITY.

Clearly the Hamas attack followed by counter attack has been going on for a while.

Let me again repeat the solution:
No attacks allowed by the Palestinians (Hamas) to they get severely punished.
No attacks from the Israeli's (military) or they get severely punished

Once they stop fighting, we can work on the stop to hating..........

Once that moves forward, REAL PEACE" can settle in.

We can play the but he did game on forever, but all that gets it death and destruction.

We need to make a fresh start, NOW, no past, just a brighter tomorrow.

The difference between the Aboriginals and Native Americans, vs the Palestinians today is...

THIS SH*T IS HAPPENING TODAY!!!!!!!

Those happened HUNDREDS of years ago when we still held slaves and white men had a god given right to rule over others...

OH WAIT!!!!

Israelis think their rights are god given as well. This is 2008, everyone is realizing GOD did not come to earth and give JEWS a sliver of land 4000 years ago. That argument is soon to fall on deaf ears, Mr. Obama's ears.

Israel will go to far, China and Russia will back Iran and the then president will come onto TV and tell the American people and the world, that this is not our fight.

Americans are starting to realize the only thing we get back after billions of dollars to support the largest terrorist organization in the world, is ever growing red targets on our backs.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by mrmonsoon


I was watching the news yesterday and it was talking about a lady in her house who was hit by a rocket and died. Scrolling under it was the Palestinian death toll saying it was over 200. The use of disproportionate force will be Israels downfall. Russia held restraint against Georgia, Israel does not have such self control.

And in response to the Palestinians do have weapons, no they don't, Hammas does, but your bombing Palestinians right now. One of the first bombings was at a Police station killing most of the top brass, no one will be able to control the crowds, exactly what they want on TV. The longer this goes on, the more support they will lose.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by Muundoggie

Why does an opinion have to be ARGUED? That infers hostility. Opinions and ideas, etc should be DISCUSSED.
This hostile mind set is the problem with many humans. Every discussion is viewed as an argument.

Codswallop. Pure baloney. Its a turn of phrase that means a line of thought has been well developed. The hostility is yours, my friend, for trying to make a mountain out of a (non-existent) molehill.


reply to post by saturnine_sweet

The gas chambers had nothing to do with war, really. They were a social issue. Tied to the war, but not the purpose of the war.

I beg to differ. They were tied in with the basic objective of the war: the creation of 'Lebensraum', or land for settlement, on land that had previously been occupied by Slavic peoples in particular. (Ring any bells now with respect to Israel?) So taking your own criterion of...

any cost is acceptable as long as it does not compromise your power. War crimes are just crap fed to the innocent minded

...the Zionist objective of an Israel for Jews (with a grudging acceptance of a Palestinian presence) and any fighting it engages in to that end could "justifiably" incorporate genocide, especially seeing as you deny war crimes even exist.

I can't imagine holocaust survivors denying war crimes exist.

I can't call you what you're being, even though its the truth, too. Not allowed here. But I get your game.

Racist? Anti-semitic? Hogwash. I get your game too: stifle reasoned debate over the policies of the Israeli government by accusing the opposing debater of hating Jews.

Except it doesn't wash. It's been used to intimidate anyone who questions the Israeli agenda for decades.

You do the same thing as all the other faux-intellectuals...deflect and spin and natter on about something else.

That's right, try an ad-hominem attack when you've dug yourself into a hole - denying the existence of war-crimes, etc. Keep digging. Anyone reading what I've posted can see I've done nothing but raise and discuss specific issues - and addressed your arguments, showing them up as specious.

Iran sends aid planes to Egypt, destination Gaza

Iran's state television announced on Sunday that the country's Red Crescent Society had sent cargo planes filled with 50 tons of relief assistance to Egypt to be shipped to Gaza.

A statement on the Iranian Red Crescent Web site said that the consignment included food and other supplies.

www.jpost.com...

Originally posted by crmanager
reply to post by Mdv2

 

You MUST be kidding?

"What is Israel trying to hide?"

"The difference bewtween Gaza and a concentration camp?"

Are you serious?

Speak with the 6,000,000 dead Jews about the reality of a concentration camp.

Speak with any Buchewald survivor about the difference.

You insolent whelp.

I have witnessed an interview with an old Dutch Jewish woman whose whole family was killed in a concentration camp and moved to Israel soon after the war to live and work in a Kibbutz. Less than two decades later she re-migrated to Europe again as well as her kids. When she was asked why she told the interviewer ''because I cannot cope with the way Israel treats the Palestinians after all we, the Jews, have gone through during the war.

Now you tell me the difference. Gazans cannot move freely and are starved to death systematically.

Do I detect a little anti-semetic feelings here?

Should I feel touched by a rather poor insult when I know it's coming from a fool?

Originally posted by slicobacon
reply to post by Mdv2

 

Oh the poor poor palestinians. I find it hard to compose any sympathy for their olive fields - let them eat their mortars and rockets instead. They are the ones who voted in a terrorist regime to lead their country. Sure, they will get sympathy and aid from other muslim countries BUT nobody wants them any more than the Israelis. I think Israel has put up with much more than any of the muslim countries would have.

Believe your truth of this conflict. If it makes you happy to believe all Palestinians are terrorists, surely do. It's not my duty to change anyone's mind, forcefully. I am merely trying to show that this conflict is more complex and two-sided, in contrast to what some think. I have visited the place some years ago, perhaps you should do so to to figure out most Palestinians are all but terrorists.

Originally posted by breakingdradles
reply to post by mrmonsoon

 

I was watching the news yesterday and it was talking about a lady in her house who was hit by a rocket and died. Scrolling under it was the Palestinian death toll saying it was over 200. The use of disproportionate force will be Israels downfall. Russia held restraint against Georgia, Israel does not have such self control.

And in response to the Palestinians do have weapons, no they don't, Hammas does, but your bombing Palestinians right now. One of the first bombings was at a Police station killing most of the top brass, no one will be able to control the crowds, exactly what they want on TV. The longer this goes on, the more support they will lose.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by breakingdradles]

Yes, it is a crying shame that the Hamas attacks caused counter attacks that killed a woman.

Now as far as Russia goes, lets discus how they treated Chechnya, specifically it's capital.
Never has the world seen such savage actions-this is supposed to be the moral high ground????

As far as Israel, it has shown unbelievable control.
Over the last year well over 3000 rockets launched at her.
Untold number of mortar rounds launched at her.

Hamas has been waging war for well over a year without any strong response.

This action is the response to over a year's attacks by Hamas-kinda puts in perspective, eh?

I don't know, but for the sack of argument, lets say only Hamas has and brings in weapons/bombs and such.

This is the freely elected government of the Palestinian’s.
This who THEY wanted and got.

As far as Palestinian police-what a joke- did they ever stop any rocket launches, or assist them?
As far as police, did they ever stop any mortar attacks, or assist them?

Sure doesn't seem like the Palestinian police do anything useful to me.

reply to post by Mdv2


Israel is being bombed hundreds of times every day from the Gaza strip, and people wonder what is going on? The people in Gaza destroyed their lawful government through murder, and fully support the thugs murdering people in Israel through bombing them. Can you imagine what the response of the United States would be if we were bombed from Mexico?
Give me a break!

This is similar to some other threads doing the rounds.

Coldly..
My money is that Isreal does not want anyone to see Gaza as it would be a Public Relations disaster. Gulf Wars showed that a lot of the personal feeling from war could be taken away by showing pin arrows from the bomb cameras i.e. pose your war as a video game.

If Isreal retaliates one life with 100 or 1,000 lives of its enemy why does it do this - if the enemy thinks it is "weak" by only killing 10 for 1 then the country will react to show it is strong. This sounds very cold but very factual - like 2 gang mobsters who are trying to "mark" their territory to stop a much larger gang war.

We all have some blame in this situation - for protecting each of the mobster bosses and not trying to get them to bang their heads together and talking. We should also be feting the real heroes in peace e.g. the men who were brave enough to open up the railway route between Inda and Pakistan. Only by inclusion and altkoing do we realise that we are no different.

reply to post by RFBurns


I would like to know where you get your facts since i am native american and happen to live on a reservation. It's true we make our own laws but the state and government laws supercede our own. We are viewed as soveriegn nations but still subject to government agencies such as the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). How can you be soveriegn yet still be under the thumb of a government agency. Many reservations throughout the united stated still live in 3rd world conditions. It's very easy to talk about something you know nothing about. If we break a state law on the reservation we are shipped off to the county in which the reservation exists. A study done by a public defender named Ann Munninghoff found that native americans in Vilas County receive longer sentences in relation to similiar crimes committed by non native americans. This is also true for other reservations elsewhere. After countless atrocities and war crimes, my people have reason to strike back yet we have shown restraint. palestinians need to show the same. You can't use violence to stop violence. It only breeds hate ,suffering and retaliation. The israelis have every right to land that belonged to them. I think it's funny how palestine wants israel to give land back from the war arabs started against an israel who were vastly outnumbered. Would they treat israel any better if the shoe was on the other foot? I wish the day would come when my people were allowed back on the land their ancestors lived on, but that will never happen. I live on a reservation, yet the only people prospering here are the rich people who swindled their way onto land set aside by the government and own 97% of lakefront property. I guesss the grass is always greener on someone else's land.

reply to post by Mdv2


This is a good example for what happens to a majority who is controlled by a minority of terrorists like HAMAS. I’m fed up of these hypocritical quotes. Anyone who has a problem with Israel targeting HAMAS please state your country and tell me what you think your government would have done if 80 rockets a day were shot at civilians.

I would like to see what the US would have done if Mexico was controlled by extremists who shot 80 rockets a day into LA. Forget what the Russians would have done…

Putting aside the past, which we all can argue for decades, lets look at the present sutiation:

1. Israel is targeting Hamas militants, while hamas is shooting rockets at civilians. Only in World War 2 did countries target civilians. Israel would have no entered Gaza if Hamas would have targeted the IFD (fair game), but to send rockets to hit civilian cities shouldn’t be acceptable anywhere in the world.

Islam is the only Religion that did not modernize in the past 300 years and the only religion in the world with extreme views similar to the crusades in the middle ages. Lets not forget 9/11 or the targeting of western countries including France, England and Spain. And even their own countries like Iraq, Sudan, and the battle between the two Islam sects. Enough is enough and this extreme view of Islam is putting the entire Arab world at risk and stopping the natural evolution of mankind while keeping the Muslim people un educated and living under fear in most of the middle eastern states. Maybe you should go talk to some woman in Afghanistan or Iran who are dragged by police because they have to keep their faces covered. Or young children the read about dieing for Allah instead of learning math and history.

Give me a break…

Star and Flagged OP like many others have done before.

This has been an enlightening and passionate thread that no matter how you look at it, furments anger within us all.

What I would love to see happen....the European Union, thou I doubt they would have the balls to do it, more likely Russia, escort with their navy an armada of aid ships to dock at Gaza, threatening the use of force if any Israeli weapons of genocide get pointed in their direction.

The world will praise those that had the guts to stand up for humanity and deliver aid by force.

What Hamas has done in the past is inexcusable, down right wrong....but what the Israelis are doing is far worse.

Israeli weapons of genocide are killing on a large scale innocent civilians.

Turning Gaza into one big Nazi concentration camp in effect. The only thing missing is ovens and gas chambers to burn surviving Gazan citizens, thou going by Israeli actions, I wouldnt be surprised to see them in the future

or are they already there???????

Why the such secrecy? Why no international aid or observers? What The F#$K is Israel Hiding?

Why is the US allowed to veto anything the UN does against Israel? Surely we need to remove the UN and replace it with a truly international organisation that works towards the befit of mankind no matter what religion or race, with no grounds for veto if a decree ruled by majority.

Israel forgets that history repeats itself.......

Israel shall turn into one big concentration camp in the future if they are not careful !

As an Afghan who has lived in a middle eastern country i could tell u for sure 100% that nobody would like to blow themselves up in a coffee shop or a market.

But can you stop someone from doing just that if his whole family was killed by a 10,000 ton bomb?

while he has no means of delivering the same kinda blow (no planes, tanks, advanced army?)

i hate it when i hear people talking about how Palestinian hates Jews. its totally false, Jews have lived in the land of Palestine for centuries in peace

its those Zionist Europeans who are starting all this trouble by grabbing more land and claiming to be their forefathers (what a joke)

Maybe if Hamas spent less money on rockets that they don't even know how to use (they accidently fired some towards Israel but ended up killing their own people - little girls) and more money getting food they would be better off. Maybe if they used their fuel for hospitals instead of their security trucks babies wouldn't be dying after they're born. Maybe if they wouldn't start shooting off hundreds of rockets the second the treaty gives them the "go ahead" then hundreds wouldn't have been killed by Israeli retaliation.

Israel has made it clear - don't attack or the retaliation will be a hundred times worse. Honestly I don't understand how this has gone on so long... when the Palestinians just keep on losing miserably.