Whats going on at yellowstone?

Originally posted by VX-7R

Originally posted by Shirakawa
Would those shaker trucks mentioned work 24h non-stop for days?
We've had these signals for days since the last relevant quake stroke the area and they have never stopped. It seems unlikely to me that such trucks would be used for all this time, also because of running costs, noise, pollution (remember that we're talking about an important national park).

The main clue for signals of human nature is mainly activity occurring only during working hours, by the way.

[edit on 2009/1/6 by Shirakawa]

Well, it wouldn't need to be the old, huge shaker trucks from 20-30 years ago. I suspect that they could get by with much smaller devices now because the geophones could be more sensitive and the amplifiers and data processing could be more able to filter out noise, etc. Thus, a smaller amount of shaking might be practical.

And yes, they could run them 24-7 if they wanted to do so. If they were really concerned about this, they'd just man them as needed. Or they could be automatically operated remotely, etc............

...............
They could even be some kind of interference to which the seismograph detectors happen to be sensitive.

I have ZERO evidence that this is from some kind of shaker device or devices being used to map things. It's just a thought.

.....Unless with generators... it does not take too much energy, they were doing a time plot map for movement..

don't know....interesting thought tho...

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Mushussu]

The last two "geyser" events have been smaller in amplitude, but close to 20 minutes apart. Maybe it's getting hotter quicker, which heats smaller amounts of water to the boiling point before they explode? In other words, the eruption point happens sooner, so there isn't as much volume? Just a thought...

Originally posted by quakewatcher
Yeah, avalanche danger would preclude using them in this environment, I would think. People are skiing all over the place, it would probably be a bad idea.

Now back to my regularly scheduled totally baseless speculation:

I wonder if we'll see less uniform signals from Lakeway again now that we're seeing big spikes.

Oh heck. They routinely use howitzers to trigger avalanches in and around the ski areas. The news here the other day was about a purposely triggered avalanche at the Jackson ski resort crashing into a few buildings up there, breaking through glass windows and doors, and pushing all of the tables and chairs in one restaurant all up against the other wall.

Luckily, the restaurant was closed at that moment

The avalanche danger has been extreme in the Jackson area for the last few weeks. We get cold and snow, then warm windy weather, then more cold and snow on top of the slippery ice layer formed by the last warm windy period. That makes for an easy zone for things to break loose and slip.

But there is no commercial downhill skiing in Yellowstone. Some cross country skiing, of course, but I believe they require you to stay to known trails or to file a plan. So they'd know where everyone is supposed to be.

It would be easy to avoid creating an avalanche danger to anyone and still be able to do a LOT of shaking up there. Keep in mind that the area is huge.

Anyhow, I'm not saying that this IS what's happening.

It's just one possibility that makes more sense, given the look of the signals, than a geyser.

It would be interesting to hear someone who actually knows what's going on explain those signals, of course. We're all just wildly speculating here.

Has any one else seen this article?
Yellowstone quakes raise explosion fears
www.newscientist.com...

reply to post by pantangele


Can you tell me the time of the last two 'eruptions' you see?
Because for what I see, about 40 minutes passed since last one.



Here's a list of the last ones in my chart:
(italics = not sure, added in order to not break the flow)

2009/01/06 04:55:35
2009/01/06 06:15:05
2009/01/06 07:13:35
2009/01/06 08:20:35
2009/01/06 09:03:00
2009/01/06 09:40:50
2009/01/06 10:23:40
2009/01/06 10:58:20
2009/01/06 11:37:35
2009/01/06 12:15:30
2009/01/06 12:49:35
2009/01/06 13:27:25


[edit on 2009/1/6 by Shirakawa]

Originally posted by maeveoc

Originally posted by SevenandFive
reply to post by RFBurns

 

You're telling us they have, in essence, " one" server?

*Edit: Because I hate being the resident cynic, I'll add this disclaimer.

[edit on 1/6/09 by SevenandFive]

[edit on 1/6/09 by SevenandFive]

Having worked for the Govt. in a previous life that would honestly NOT surprise me unfortunately.

Which was my point, incidentally.
Oh, the irony.

Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers. LOL

reply to post by sageturkey


Well I have read most of the posts on this thread over the last several days, but I dont see any real evidence just a lot of speculation, graph making by people who are not trained siesmologistsm, and guessing. But I dont think you are wrong for being prepared. Nothing wrong with that as long as it doesnt take time from your relationships, etc. I guess we will see in the end. How about a little wager. If it doesnt blow in a month you give me 5 bucks and it does and we all die I will give you five bucks

Originally posted by Shirakawa
reply to post by alysha.angel

 

Quoted from the report:

At this time, no one has noted any anomalous changes in surface discharges (hot springs, gas output, etc.).

So officially there's nothing unusual at the moment beneath the lake? What are those strange geyser-like readings of increasing frequency over time on LKWY then? Or is this report outdated even though it's from today?

god alone knows. cuz i dont. iam only trying to help out on this thread a bit with what little i do find out

reply to post by Shirakawa


They're becoming harder to define, but if you zoom in you can see them... With more events in between now. Like I said, the duration seems to be diminishing... I see them at:

11:40 ish

12:16 ish

Definitely 12:49

Then 1:27 (13:27) for about 4:30


Edited: Close to the same... Go with yours.



[edit on 6-1-2009 by pantangele]

Though it's fitting less perfectly with our predictive pattern than we thought, the chance this is trucks is diminishing.

Originally posted by VX-7R
What about this:

Could the folks up at Yellowstone be using "shaker trucks" to try to map the various underground features in the area, perhaps to see if things are changing shape?

The signals we're seeing on the various seismographs might well be the signals from such shaker trucks being used.

They're big trucks, and people would probably see them moving around in the area. But it'd be easy enough to get a few of them up there and put them to use like this.

Back in the last oil boom around here, I knew a couple of people who worked on crews doing this kind of mapping. This was more acceptable in certain areas than setting off dynamite. It's also faster to set up and move. In an area like Yellowstone, they'd want to be as environmentally sensitive as possible, so to me, shaker trucks make some sense for mapping things underground.

They'd array their trucks in some kind of a pattern or line. Then they'd set them up with hydraulic pads pushing down onto the earth and raising the truck up slightly.

Then they'd synchronize all of the trucks together to a master sync signal via radio link, and start them all up at once. Inside each truck was a huge mass that was coupled to the pad pressed against the ground by very large and powerful actuators.

The masses would all be moved in unison to create the wavefront that was desired, and the data from this would be recorded by an array of "geophones" that they'd deploy.

At the time, the bottleneck was the computing power required to process and analyze the data from the geophones to create an image of what lies below ground. That was always a big part of the proprietary IP that these companies used.

These days, I'd expect that end of things to be much more sophisticated and the processing to be much faster.

Anyhow, the idea of shaker trucks just comes to mind when I see those patterns that we're calling "secret geysers" on this thread.

It'd explain the very uniform and controlled appearance of the amplitude of the signals we're seeing.

Thoughts?

Would we see the consistant inverse correlation between duration and interval we are seeing if it was shaker trucks?

Indo just went off again!

And below is a site that shows basicaly which direction events (EQ's) are going, mostly at the edges of the plates.


www.globalcmt.org...

Introduction and Explanation =Centroid-Moment-Tensor

* research project known as the Harvard Centroid-Moment-Tensor (CMT) The Harvard **CMT Project is moving forward under the name "The Global CMT Project". The main dissemination point for information and results from the project is the web site www.globalcmt.org.
The CMT project has been continuously funded by the National Science Foundation since its inception, and is currently supported by award EAR-0639963.

Just follow the rotating ball!!

[edit on 6-1-2009 by Mushussu]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


$5 taking bets anyone? i got $10 that it will blow before 2012

reply to post by BOTOH


Here's the Park Map of Old Faithful Geyser Area...just for reference

Old Faithful Area Online Tour
Interactive Map - South Section



www.nps.gov...

Interesting.

Other places you can now see these showing up, esp the ones after 11 and 12:

quake.utah.edu...
(Flagg Ranch in the Tetons) - you can also see the latest, but it's a little more disordered

Soda Butte:

quake.utah.edu...

I'd be interested to see if we can keep picking these up on other helicorders, esp since that wasn't happening at all before the pattern started to break up.

Originally posted by littleflower

Would we see the consistent inverse correlation between duration and interval we are seeing if it was shaker trucks?

That's a good question. I'm not sure how you'd set things up for a study of that sort. I know very little about the actual practice of doing mapping with such a system.

But I suspect that they've got to fire off a burst, then wait for the echoes to be recorded, then continue. I can envision all kinds of regimes for mapping to different depths or trying to focus the waves they generate onto various targets to try to probe different underground features, etc.

It'd be like the acoustic equivalent of synthetic aperture radar, using a phased array of these little remotely deployed shaker gizmos.

The possibilities are so vast that I don't think you could rule out any kind of pattern to what you might see.

Classic case of not enough information followed by wild speculation (on my part).

Lake Mary is starting to pick up... Wind versus activity debate?

www.seis.utah.edu...

woooooooo the quakes in lake havnt decreased in quantity,but they have decreased in mag, see list

www.seis.utah.edu...

reply to post by pantangele


Forget the truck speculation. Thats not it. Snowcats maybe. Remember its winter there, hello. Traffic is severly limited if not controlled altogether. Raods are not maintained or plowed, etc. etc. It is a huge park! I've spent a summer there and never did see it all! I'm not saying they are not doing tests with specialized equipment, of course they are. This is a huge chance to learn more about superdupers!

Can we please agree that(thankfully)they are doing these tests to see what is up? We've already covered that. And the road closure thing.

So we will have an impossible time figuring this new geyser thing out otherwise. Too bad these fellers with the "friends in the know" could at least find out if this is true. It would make the most sense to just tell us so we can dismiss these noises and concentrate on the big ones?

Shirakawa, my hats off to you!

reply to post by Mushussu


That was what I thought!
Sells news tho! They didn't air it, so the put it on their homepage with a big picture.