Sumerian tales versus the bible

After reading almost all the posts I see a lot of ignorance and some "desperate hold to the Bible story. I see ignorance to the truth about Jesus.
Bible story was copied from Babylonians. Babylonians copied fro Sumerians. Sumerians copied for who?. The carbon dating it is in question if the "war of the gods" using a nuclear weapons did exists as portrayed in India legends dated back to 5000BC because the radiation will affect any tested objects. If you read the Bible and paid attention - 2 generation pas the "Great Flood" the life span was 60-80 year. Before was 900 to 600 years.
If people were counting days as from dusk till down then Earth will have to revolve around the Sun 10 times faster. If that would be correct then density of a objects would change. Large body of animals would be created to support the high gravitation force. According to Sumerian tablets translation -Gods got mad on people and melted down the polar cap what in effect created a flood.
Most like some meteor strike the planet and cause the flood what if effect slow down the spin on axis. Rapid loss of gravity cause a large body of a animals to collapse and the extinction fallows. The difference of a gravitation force will affect the carbon dating too. That off "IF".
If translation of tablets are correct and if translation of ancient Mahabharata is correct. The Jesus story " do not fly" either. Jesus did not die on cross and "went to Heaven". In his prime age - he should last longer that 5hours.
If he die then the blood would flow to his legs and out trough the wounds. When his side was pierced by a lance -it show a blood flowing enough to fill a cup. The only explanation would be - he was not dead when his side was pierced, but rather he "fake" his death by slowing his rate of the heart beat and that could be achieve by knowledge of Yoga. There are a documents stated of his presence in Tibet. He was not dead when he was taken of the cross. Hes body was hidden and his wounds was healed. He was not a son of the God and he never claim to be. He did not die for our "sins" because we did not had a single one at the time of a birth. If God give to you a "free will" then you should be able to live your life the way you think is right and no man can judge for but only the God. If Jesus was not the God or son of the God then you all violate rule number One from 10 Commandments by praying to Jesus instead to God.
In summary: Religion was created for purpose of control and manipulation of "masses" by small group of a people for purpose of a wealth and power. No more no less. The best and most lucrative business it is a church. The most powerful spying organization are O.O Jesuits as they gathering all information from peoples "confession" around the world.
We all need a faith -even me- but we should not worship some "claim to be the God" people ,but rather we should have faith into each others as we all are part of the God.

Originally posted by huckfinn
Adam was "given the world"? He didn't have to fight or do anything because it was already his?

Yes. That's what I'm saying.

So out of the ground the LORD God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field

If you know that the world belongs to Adam, Then why are all those people dying?

Answer: Because they reject the truth and instead hold to a lie.

Since you seem to like the answers to your questions to be based in theology, perhaps I can give you another scripture quote that will answer your question.

LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" 10He said, "I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" 12The man said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate." 13Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent tricked me, and I ate."

Adam did have the world. He was given it freely and without condition, but he went and screwed things up for himself.

17And to the manb he said,
"Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,
and have eaten of the tree
about which I commanded you,
'You shall not eat of it,'
cursed is the ground because of you;
in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
18 thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread
until you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
you are dust,
and to dust you shall return."

See what I mean? So, from a theological standpoint, you can technically blame all the world's problems on Adam.

I knew you guys were just playing dumb noone could be as stupid as you sound.

I would pull some of your more fruitful attempts to sound intelligent, but there are just so many to choose from, I would invite anyone to just read anything you have written in the past few pages. They can decide for themselves who sounds stupid.

As for calling you sumerians that's what I will know refer to all people who don't honor Adam's hegemony over his world.

That might work if anybody had any idea what you were talking about when you called them a Sumerian. Then again, after you've spent three hours trying to explain it, their vain attempts to wrap their minds around something this warped might actually turn an intelligent man stupid. Which in your opinion would make him a Sumerian. So...I suppose you are right...in a strange and mutated kind of way.

Yes, Adam screwed it up for everyone. Do you know who?

Answer: He was tricked by a priest. Probably a sumerian.


A sumerian--all The planet x/nibiru worshippers, expecting an alien invasion, reptilian shapeshifting, conspiracy theorist holocaust deniers. A sumerian. Hamas/Iran/Saddam sympathizers. Sumerians. Anti-semites. Sumerians.

Thats what I am talking about. the people who frequent this site. Many sumerians. You know, the people say it never happened, we can never really know. It all a big mystery...Sumerians.

People who use classical physics to solve quantum problems. Sumerians.

Come on Dude. just admit it and this conversation can go to the next stage.



[edit on 11-1-2009 by huckfinn]

Originally posted by huckfinn
Yes, Adam screwed it up for everyone. Do you know who?

Answer: He was tricked by a priest. Probably a sumerian.

So, you are saying then that the Sumerians established their own society and rules to govern themselves, their own pantheon and lifestyle, THEN tricked Adam into eating from a tree? So how old, exactly, are you attempting to make Adam? He would have to be pretty ancient for this to fly.

Come on Dude. just admit it and this conversation can go to the next stage.

Admit what? You haven't proven anything yet. Honestly, I'm not even sure anymore what it is you are trying to prove.



[edit on 11-1-2009 by huckfinn]

Adam is just a name...Seth, Enoch, Shem, Abraham Jesus...all Adam. Again you are using your extensive knowledge of the physical/material to understand energy. the rules of classical physics fail at the quantum level.

The Sumerian tribe was made possible because the Priest using the wife tricked the King. Ham saw his father naked. If Adam had not fallen, sumeria as a separate and distinct culture would never have been. it would be just another place in Adam's garden. and that is all it is and its tales of granduer.

Admit you are a sumerian operative.

My baby boy is demanding that is why mosts posts are short.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by huckfinn]

reply to post by huckfinn

Admit you are a sumerian operative

Oh my

Originally posted by huckfinn
A sumerian--all The planet x/nibiru worshippers, expecting an alien invasion, reptilian shapeshifting, conspiracy theorist holocaust deniers. A sumerian. Hamas/Iran/Saddam sympathizers. Sumerians. Anti-semites. Sumerians.

Thats what I am talking about. the people who frequent this site. Many sumerians. You know, the people say it never happened, we can never really know. It all a big mystery...Sumerians.

People who use classical physics to solve quantum problems. Sumerians.

I don't think anyone's going to agree on your slapping the name of an ancient civilization on people you don't hold in high esteem. And it confuses the issue... we talk about the ancient civilization and you talk about some things and people who have nothing to do with the ancient civilization.

It's particularly confusing to people when you start associating your "sumerian" concept with "Anti-semites" because the "Semites" are descendants of the ancient people we call "Sumerians."

And your original point (whatever it is) gets lost in this time-squish where you lump everything in the name of an ancient civilization. At the time of the Bible there were no "Sumerians" to tempt Adam. He was the first man (according to the Bible) and the only other person around at the time of the Temptation (according to every version of the Bible was Eve, the woman created for Adam by Yahweh.

You may be drawing some sort of great mythic analogy for yourself... how you feel people are being misled by types of people that you disrespect. But that kind of topic really needs to go elsewhere. It has nothing to do with a civilization that existed 5,000 years ago and died out so completely that the texts were impossible to read for several thousand years.

Originally posted by illece
I don't know if i have posted in the right section,but i really would like to know which was written first Sumerian tales or the bible ,i am really struggling with my christian believes due to this subject!!

Obviously, you are receiving views from many people. Some move in one direction, some in the other.
The only real truth, is that a human being cannot possibly know the workings of God. We are only able to grasp what our limited existence, as "humans", will allow us to grasp.
And this train of thought also works for those of us that do not believe in God. Because, even with the concept of "God" out of the picture, and looking at these questions from a purely scientific perspective, we still have no right to think we can possibly have all these answers to our universe. Not at this time. Again, we are young and limited. We are just "people".
Either way, we are small, relatively new beings, that have only existed on Earth for a short time. Whether we were "Created" or "Evolved", we are young.
That is why the only real "truth" there is, is the fact that only the path is important. We can move toward the truth, look for the truth and wish for the truth, but as long as we are just living human beings, the final answers will elude us.
And, that's ok.
The fact stands that the Sumerians lived with one face of "God", whatever "God" is. You, as a Christian, live with another. But, it is the same "God".
Christianity, at it's core, is not a limiting concept.
Enjoy your truth. Enjoy your belief. It is as real as any other. It was placed here for you! Smile at your own questions, and have fun with them.
We have been given a great deal of mysteries and contradictions and reasons to quest for answers. And, it is an awesome gift.
And, the great news, is that all of these will lead to God in some form, with all his many stories.

Remember, God is everything and anything. Contradictions and Concrete.

With all due respect to the Super Moderator. Semites are not descendants of Sumerians and the Serpent was present in the Garden along with Adam and Eve. Its weird that you would even write that the Semites are descendants of the Sumerians, as that is the very concept I am opposed to because it is not true.

I will admit that my point gets lost but when you dealing with purposeful attempts to confuse the conversation that happens.

I am sorry that you don’t agree with the way I participate in the forum, but I am not aware that I am trying to confuse anything.

I reestablish my point. The Bible is not in any way derivative of Sumerian tales. To support this assertion, I attemted, unsuccessfully, that the Sumerian culture is a sub-section of a larger culture and that everything they know comes from that larger culture.




[edit on 11-1-2009 by huckfinn]

Originally posted by huckfinn
With all due respect to the Super Moderator. Semites are not descendants of Sumerians and the Serpent was present in the Garden along with Adam and Eve. Its weird that you would even write that the Semites are descendants of the Sumerians, as that is the very concept I am opposed to because it is not true.

Well, the Columbia Encyclopedia listing for Semites says different:

In Mesopotamia, Semitic people from the earliest times were in contact with Sumerian civilization and with the rise of Sargon of Agade (Akkad) and Hammurabi of Babylon were able to dominate it completely (see Sumer ). In Phoenicia the Semitic population developed a widespread maritime trade and became the first great seafaring people. That group of Hebrews that had been diverted through Sinai into the Nile delta settled at last with other Semitic inhabitants in Palestine. These southern or Judean Hebrews became the leaders of a new nation and religion (see Jews and Judaism ).

Though originally separate tribes perhaps, they migrated from Arabia LONG before the founding of Judaism and mingled with the people of ancient Sumer. When you refer to Semites in a Biblical sense, you have to account for this, because their entire way of life would have been dramatically influenced by their peers.

Somewhere about 5000 B.C. the Semite hordes began their migration from the deserts of Arabia. Some of the wanderers descended into Sumer, coming apparently less as conquerors than as visitors, attracted by this civilization so superior to their own, admirers and imitators of the Sumerian culture.

That excerpt comes from this link, which has a few discrepancies, but paints a fairly accurate picture. The pact between God and Abraham that would eventually establish Judaism would not come until around 2000 BC, which is several millenia after the Semites had started shacking up with the Sumerians.

reply to post by Byrd


Howdy Byrd

One point of clarification aren't the Akkadians considered to be the Semitics while the Sumers were deemed independent? Their language wasn't semitic. Are you saying they were part of the ethnic-group that includes semitic speaking peoples but didn't use the language?

I know I'm going to regret this but

Huckfinn

that the Sumerian culture is a sub-section of a larger culture and that everything they know comes from that larger culture.

Okay lets take this step by step

Who is this larger culture, what is its name?

Where were they located?

What/how are they a large entity that the Sumerians are part of?

When did this culture exist?

Evidence for said culture

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by Byrd

 

Howdy Byrd

One point of clarification aren't the Akkadians considered to be the Semitics while the Sumers were deemed independent? Their language wasn't semitic. Are you saying they were part of the ethnic-group that includes semitic speaking peoples but didn't use the language?

I was thinking the same thing, but I think the point was that the Sumerian culture was already in existance when the Semites entered the area and mingled with them, hence the saying that the Semites are descended from Sumerians. I suppose that technically they have always been their own people, but they were hardly more than hunters and gatherers until they came to Sumer and became "civilized", if you will.

reply to ttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread422467/pg6#pid5616721]post by EdenKaia[/url]


The Sumerians took over or intermingled with the Ubaidians and later the semitic Akkaids tooks over the lot. Not sure if anyone has made a determination as to who the Ubaidians might have been.

Opinions vary on whether the Ubaidians were semitic or that an even earlier people, the so called proto-Euprates people were semitic.

Kramer did not believe the Ubadians were necessarily Semites, though he believed they were invaded and influenced by Semitic peoples. Citing the work of Benno Landsberger, he points out that many Sumerian words do not appear to be of Sumerian origin. According to him, even the Sumerian words for Tigris and Eurphates--idiglat and buranun respectively--appear to be borrowed. He adds that many Sumerian city names do not appear to be Sumerian, nor do words involving technology (e.g., apin for plow) and echoes Landesberger's conclusion that the Sumerians picked these words up from people who were already there. Kramer believed that the Sumerians invaded the Semitic-influenced Ubaidians. Nicholas Postgate, however, dismisses all this with the single phrase, saying that the findings based on such linguistic evidence "have not achieved general acceptance." Postgate seems to favor a position that the Sumerians were already there, or at least did not invade Mesopotamia in any time marked by the archaeological record. He does not state that the Ubaidians were ancestors of the Sumerians or spoke Sumerian, which cannot be known at this point.

I think the question is still debateable and that no concensus has been reached.


link



[edit on 11/1/09 by Hanslune]

First I use the bible as a reference:

Man has been grouped into three distinct groups…Shem, Japheth and Ham. All with a well know common source, if you accept the Genesis account. Sumerians ultimately came from Ham, the Akkadians, however, are actually two groups merged, Shem and Japheth. In Sumerian controlled lands only the females from among the Akkadians were allowed to remain, the males were either killed in the womb, in the crib or cast out of this society. The Priest’s had no use for them. To save their son’s lives, the mothers often abandoned their sons to nature rather than see them certainly die within the walls of Sumer. When the males grew to manhood, some returned. They adopted the culture of their mothers, promptly rose to power became corrupt and the society collapsed. This is confirmed in literature in the story of Sargon and the fall of Akkad.

What the priests did in Sumer was try their own hand at creation. To keep control they had to abandon the natural pre-existing pattern, but they followed it as a mirror image. Replacing God’s man, with their man. Appearing as the real deal to most people. Advanced society already existed, as did knowledge, it was destroyed and what happened 5-6000 years ago was a science experiment being conducted by priests.

What I wrote above is almost formulaic. It’s happened in different places at different times, the Moses story is not plagiarized, this happened in Egypt as well. It’s a very famous story and it happened in this country, America, at least 37 years ago.

The larger culture I keep referring to is when these three groups who all have the same source lived in balance. Before the experiment called civilization. To understand the nature of the balance, it is necessary to understand the nature of Eve, the mother of all living. She is triune, She is three. This is shown in the Hindu as the tri-Devi, in Islam as the three daughters of Allah and in pre-Christian mythology as the Hesperides. She is probably known elsewhere as well. Her form is as a mother and two daughters, one older and the one younger. Sumeria is the younger daughter.

From my point of view, saying the Semitic is descended from the Sumerian is like saying the younger daughter is mother to her older sister and her mother.

reply to post by huckfinn



Yes I was right I did regret it.



[edit on 11/1/09 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune



Surprise, Surprise...another non-response from the peanut gallery.

reply to post by huckfinn


Howdy Huckfinn

Sorry dude but you make no sense at all - enjoy

reply to post by Hanslune


Have fun in your fragmented world of indecision.

[edit on 11-1-2009 by huckfinn]

Originally posted by EdenKaia
I was thinking the same thing, but I think the point was that the Sumerian culture was already in existance when the Semites entered the area and mingled with them, hence the saying that the Semites are descended from Sumerians. I suppose that technically they have always been their own people, but they were hardly more than hunters and gatherers until they came to Sumer and became "civilized", if you will.

Yes, and (I wasn't being clear) more specifically that during the "years of the Babylonian captivity" referred to in many verses and chapters of the Bible there was a lot of cultural (and sexual) mingling. The Jews tended to form a very closed society, but there was surely a lot of "cross-cultural contamination." They often held respected positions (scribes to the kings) and in order to do that, you really have to blend in with the current culture and the culture of the court.

I believe my intended point was that Sumer is both an area and a culture, Sumerian the language group, and Semite is a language group and the two groups came together in a huge melting pot of Old Sumer/Babylon.

I haven't done a lot of reading on the material (I've been focusing on Egypt recently) so I'm open to correction. And I didn't google for sources, so I'm doubly at fault here!

reply to post by Byrd


Shame on you Byrd. Off your game today.