Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

reply to post by dooper



"Oh yeah. Suicide is prohibited in the Qur'an, killing is prohibited in the Qur'an"

The bible also prohibits killing, but that didn't stop me and you, did it?

*We clicked our heals, saluted, spun about-face, went into the jungle and laced those zippers in the Name of Good Old USA....

And we read our bibles every night, and wrote home to Mom and Sis.

We were the good guys, Right Doop?



[edit on 31-12-2008 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by masonwatcher

 

What history has clearly shown is that religion supresses technological development. As longs as the Muslim world continues to take their religion too seriously, they will continue to lag in technology.

Technology is what gives the West and Israel their advantage, and it will continue to do so. Will all of the wealth of oil resources, the Middle East has yet to succeed in developing a tecnological or industrial base. It isn't for lack of intelligence, but due to religious supression.

For this reason, Israel and the West will remain in the advantage until this changes.

You are wrong and because you haven't provided references I will not bother either.

Dooper

Tabiri was a historian and his writings reflected the socio-political dynamics of his age. He is also well respected and an original copy of one of his books is cherished in the British Library.

The Quran does not sanction violence unless it is in self defence. Muslim should be principled in contrast to you zionists. Quotes by zionist and other kinds of misanthropes are selected out of context. These quotes are often referring to events at the time of the prophet Mohamed and the hardships his followers faced but you manage to twist it out of context.

Bukhari writings are narratives by learned individuals who interpret nuances of the Prophets life and the words of God. They are called Hadith which is divided into two types; Sahih and Daeef ahadith depending on the quality of scholarship.

Ishaq is Isaac in Arabic. Everything else said were malformed knowledge and jibberish.

Just saw this post in brazilian news portal (source:
www.estadao.com.br... )
same news in english (www.theaustralian.news.com.au...)

www.youtube.com...

The link is to Israel Defense Force create a channel to make a "show" of his operations... the worst example of media use

[edit on 31/12/08 by blackcube]

reply to post by poet1b

What history has clearly shown is that religion supresses technological development

History has shown no such thing. In fact, many of the inventions that we use today were the result of priests, monks and Muslims during the middle ages. Here are just a few of the works of religious figures:

Arithmetic and Algebra — the Islamic scholar Al-Khwarizmi was the author of two books that changed the face of both Islamic and European mathematics. His “De numero indorum” (which only exists in Latin translation; no Arabic original is known) introduced the Hindu decimal place value number system first into the Arab world in the 9th Century and then into Europe in the 12th Century. His “al-Kitab al-mukhtasar fi hisab al-jabr wa'l-muqabala” was a compendium of basic algebra, a word taken from the title of the book, drawn from Babylonian, Greek and Indian sources. In it he demonstrates how to solve linear and quadratic equations but only those with positive solutions. Brahmagupta, one of his main sources, was already dealing with negative solutions in the 7th Century. Later Islamic mathematicians extended Al-Khwarizmi’s results to those polynomials of higher degree that could be reduced to quadratics through substitution. His arithmetic was taught as Algorithmus, a corruption of his name, in mediaeval universities as a part of computus. His arithmetic and algebra were popularised in Europe through the publication of the Liber abbaci by Leonardo of Pisa in the 13th century.

This theory of impetus was modified by Islamic scholars such as Avicenna in the 11th century, who theorized the concept of momentum,[12] as well as by Avempace—who developed the concept of a reaction force[13]— and Abu’l Barakat— who developed the concept that force applied continuously produces acceleration[14]— in the 12th century.

In the 10th Century the Islamic polymath Alhazen became the first thinker to combine all three fields into an integrated science of optics.[17] This was however not just a work of synthesis, as he made original contribution to the field.

The English monk Alcuin of York elaborated a project of scholarly development aimed at resuscitating classical knowledge by establishing programs of study based upon the seven liberal arts: the trivium, or literary education (grammar, rhetoric and dialectic) and the quadrivium, or scientific education (arithmetic, geometry, astronomy and music)

The Venerable Bede (ca. 672–735), monk of the monasteries of Wearmouth and Jarrow who wrote a work On the Nature of Things, several books on the mathematical / astronomical subject of computus, the most influential entitled On the Reckoning of Time. He made original discoveries concerning the nature of the tides and his works on computus became required elements of the training of clergy, and thus greatly influenced early medieval knowledge of the natural world.

Pope Sylvester II (c. 946–1003), a scholar, teacher, mathematician, and later pope, reintroduced the abacus and armillary sphere to Western Europe after they had been lost for centuries following the Greco-Roman era. He was also responsible in part for the spread of the Hindu-Arabic numeral system in Western Europe.

Robert Grosseteste (1168–1253), Bishop of Lincoln, was the central character of the English intellectual movement in the first half of the 13th century and is considered the founder of scientific thought in Oxford. He had a great interest in the natural world and wrote texts on the mathematical sciences of optics, astronomy and geometry. In his commentaries on Aristotle's scientific works, he affirmed that experiments should be used in order to verify a theory, testing its consequences. Roger Bacon was influenced by his work on optics and astronomy.[57]

Albert the Great (1193–1280), Doctor Universalis, was one of the most prominent representatives of the philosophical tradition emerging from the Dominican Order. He is one of the thirty-three Saints of the Roman Catholic Church honored with the title of Doctor of the Church. He became famous for his vast knowledge and for his defence of the pacific coexistence between science and religion. Albert was an essential figure in introducing Greek and Islamic science into the medieval universities, although not without hesitation with regard to particular Aristotelian theses. In one of his most famous sayings he asserted: "Science does not consist in ratifying what others say, but of searching for the causes of phenomena." Thomas Aquinas was his most famous pupil.

Roger Bacon (1214–94), Doctor Admirabilis, joined the Franciscan Order around 1240 where, influenced by Grosseteste, ibn Firnas and others, he dedicated himself to studies where he implemented the observation of nature and experimentation as the foundation of natural knowledge. Bacon was responsible for making the concept of "laws of nature" widespread, and contributed in such areas as mechanics, geography and, most of all, optics.

The optical research of Grosseteste and Bacon established optics as an area of study at the medieval university and formed the basis for a continuous tradition of research into optics that went all the way up to the beginning of the 17th century and the foundation of modern optics by Kepler.[58]

Thomas Aquinas (1227–74), Doctor Angelicus, was an Italian theologian and friar in the Dominican Order. As his mentor Albert the Great, he is a Catholic Saint and Doctor of the Church. His interests were not only in philosophy; he was also interested in alchemy, having written an important treatise titled Aurora Consurgens. However, his greatest contribution to the scientific development of the period was having been mostly responsible for the incorporation of Aristotelianism into the Scholastic tradition, and in particular his Commentary on Aristotle's Physics was responsible for developing one of the most important innovations in the history of physics, first posited by his mentor Averroes for celestial bodies only, namely the notion of the inertial resistant mass of all bodies universally, subsequently further developed by Kepler and Newton in the 17th century. (See Pierre Duhem's analysis The 12th century birth of the notion of mass which advised modern mechanics. from his Systeme Du Monde at [3])

John Duns Scotus (1266–1308), Doctor Subtilis, was a member of the Franciscan Order, philosopher and theologian. Emerging from the academic environment of the University of Oxford. where the presence of Grosseteste and Bacon was still palpable, he had a different view on the relationship between reason and faith as that of Thomas Aquinas. For Duns Scotus, the truths of faith could not be comprehended through the use of reason. Philosophy, hence, should not be a servant to theology, but act independently. He was the mentor of one of the greatest names of philosophy in the Middle Ages: William of Ockham.

William of Ockham (1285–1350), Doctor Invincibilis, was an English Franciscan friar, philosopher, logician and theologian. Ockham defended the principle of parsimony, which could already be seen in the works of his mentor Duns Scotus. His principle later became known as Occam's Razor and states that if there are various equally valid explanations for a fact, then the simplest one should be chosen. This became a foundation of what would come to be known as the scientific method and one of the pilars of reductionism in science. Ockham probably died of the Black Plague. Jean Buridan and Nicole Oresme were his followers.

Jean Buridan (1300–58) was a French philosopher and priest. Although he was one of the most famous and influent philosophers of the late Middle Ages, his work today is not renowned by people other than philosophers and historians. One of his most significant contributions to science was the development of the theory of Impetus, that explained the movement of projectiles and objects in free-fall. This theory gave way to the dynamics of Galileo Galilei and for Isaac Newton's famous principle of Inertia.
Nicole Oresme

Nicole Oresme (c. 1323–82) was an intellectual genius and perhaps the most original thinker of the 14th century. A theologian and bishop of Lisieux, he was one of the principal propagators of the modern sciences. Notwithstanding his strictly scientific contributions, Oresme strongly opposed astrology and speculated about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. He was the last great European intellectual to live before the Black Plague, an event that had a very negative impact in the intellectual life of the ending period of the Middle Ages.

These are just a few of those religious who contributed greatly to the advancement of science, medicine and technology.

I suggest in the future that you do not make statements based upon personal opinions, but as other posters have pointed out to you, do some research.
So far, all I have seen in your posts is bluster and unsubstantiated opinion.
Try bringing some research and knowledge to ATS, and deny ignorance, as the ATS motto says.

Here is a news item that was just publishedL

The Israeli military has therefore announced that online media and the blogosphere are another warzone for the military to manage. To that end, the military is launching its own Youtube channel to bring the viewing public footage of “precision bombing operations” in the strip.

In ensuring that the only footage of their military operation is provided directly from them, the Israeli military is another step closer to completely managing public perception of the ongoing attacks. The military says the footage will allow the public to “know that people killed did not have peaceful intentions toward Israel,” which presumably means coverage of the killing of five children in their beds in a refugee camp last night, and the scores of other civilian deaths, will be carefully omitted from the official coverage.

source:news.antiwar.com...

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


"The Israeli military has therefore announced that online media and the blogosphere are another warzone for the military to manage."

Explains alot...

*Don't forget all the Megaphonies using that program to alert them to websites critical of Israel - the Repeaters are out en masse this week.

reply to post by Exuberant1

"The Israeli military has therefore announced that online media and the blogosphere are another warzone for the military to manage."

Now why would they want to control the videos the public see? filtering out the atrocities perhaps?

So even with all their manipulation and control of all the major news outlets.. which BTW aren't focusing as half as much on this situation as we are here on ATS..their own military want to control Youtube as well? .. And GamerGal still claims the validity of her Youtube Pallywood videos.

Originally posted by Majorion
Now why would they want to control the videos the public see? filtering out the atrocities perhaps?

Its called "Israelliwood". Keeping out international news coverage and blocking more than just food and editing their own footage to only show what they want to show.

Some would also say that the Palestinians are doing the same thing with their videos on youtube.

Thats why its imperitive to have international journalists there to provide that 3rd prospective, the neutral prospective, which will have FAR more credibility than either side. Since they cannot get in, thats a feather under the Israeli hat, and if they could get in, the pallywood pushers would say the Hamas bought them off to film actors and their kids. Thats what propeganda has done, taking either side on the outside to the extremities of lame blame games.

Originally posted by Majorion
So even with all their manipulation and control of all the major news outlets.. which BTW aren't focusing as half as much on this situation as we are here on ATS..their own military want to control Youtube as well?

It is the first step of any side of a conflict to control the flow of information. Its like a campaign, to win support by baffling the easily gullable with BS.

If there were several independant neutral journalists allowed to go in and video and report, those reports and videos can then be compared with those put out by the opposing sides, can give the real story about whats going on.

Originally posted by Majorion
.. And GamerGal still claims the validity of her Youtube Pallywood videos.

The videos linked to Pallywood are true, but they are over 6 years old and do not apply with today's situation. For one, there is no outside news videographers or journalists in the zone to be able to be manipulated or persuaded by Hamas to make the fake videos.

And second, there is no outside news videographers and journalists making reports and videos that could be used as a reference to see if in fact more faked videos and reports were being made..by either side.

So its all basically a potential "Fabellywood" situation. Without that 3rd neutral prospective, it is not byond reality that both Israel and Hamas are making "movies" for the hungry news agencies needing a story.




Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Majorion


Isn't it interesting that the Israelis are using the same exact techniques that the Nazis used to control what was reported in Germany? Perhaps the old saying "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery" tells us what Israel really thinks of what happened in Hitler's Germany.
www.time.com...

Before club-footed little Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels became Adolf Hitler's Minister of Propaganda and Public Enlightenment, he used to say that nothing was so good for a hostile editor as "one litre of castor oil." Lately Minister Goebbels' methods have grown less rudimentary. Last autumn, he "consecrated"' the German Press to Nazi service with a law that made it a crime to practice journalism in Germany except as a member of a nation-wide closed shop. Last week, Nazi control of the Press went one step further when it was announced that Germany's two biggest news services, the Telegraphen-Union and Wolff's Telegraph Bureau, had merged because of ''recent economic developments in the German Press."

reply to post by masonwatcher


Yeah. And I noticed where the writers of these inspired words of Allah plainly said that they left out many things that were shameful, or would show Muhammed in a bad light.

As if it could get much worse.

reply to post by RFBurns


One of the videos are. Others are newer. And now the whole "Eating Grass" thing is falling towards Pallywood since I, and no one else I've asked, have found pictures of grass, let alone some one eating it, in Palestinian lands.

Wow, some monks and other religious figures were credited with ideas that may or may not have been key in the advancement of technology, doesn't change the fact that histroy clearly shows that domination of religion is cleary associated with stagnation of civilization. See Sumeria, Rome, Europe. My money says that those monks weren't very religious, just hiding out from the religious nutcases within the religion.

Israel kills top Hamas figure, they weren't guided by God.

news.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AlhBjAYFQC.YqZPxg3bwV_8UewgF

Hmm, who is in the lead, those who spend their days praying to god, or those who spend their days developing new ideas and new technology.

Originally posted by pepsi78

The french resistance use to hide among people to fight with the natzis.

...and the French people were well aware of what would occur to them should they be found harboring resistance fighters.

Israel should not exist, the land belongs to Palestinians and Jewish people and no one is entitled to call it theirs.No one. You can't come and push people out of the way to have your own state.It's something you do not understand I guess.

...and how exactly did the Palestinians living in Palestine get there??? I take it they (the Palestinians) should not be allowed to form a State either, right?

Note. Permitted the Jews to return to Jerusalem. Ohhhh bad persians(iranians)

Now, now comparing the Persian Empire to the Muslim nation of Iran is disingenous and you know it. Very weak arguement there.





[edit on 1-1-2009 by pavil]

And then when they show those images of palestinians I allways have to laught .. they are in a warzone and bombs are so called going of everywere and if you watch they are interviewing a men who is speaking of blood and death ect but behind him are all smiling and waving ect .. what is wrong with that image haha . and then I found this video and everything was clear to me the images from gaza are manipulated by the palestinians.

reply to post by MarkLuitzen


I watched the vid and can agree with you, some of it is laughable. This does not mean the Palestinians are the bad guys, anymore than the Iraelis are the good guys

What makes anyone think that the Israelis can not also do this????

Both have a cause therefore both will resort to propaganda.


res

reply to post by GamerGal


Another poster in another thread about Palestinians eating grass queried the lack of grass also.

It got me thinking so I went to google maps and YES I am aware that these images can be manipulated etc but there is grass in the Gaza Strip.

Just throwing that in the mix seeing as you put it out there.


res

reply to post by ProfEmeritus




Your list means nothing. I refuted your strawman point, and provided the evidence to back up my claims that cultures dominated by religion stagnate. Being that you don't have an adequate response to counter my evidence, you resort to attacking me personally. I don't care if you put me on you ignore list, I will continue to point out the faliures in your posts when I see them.

The palestinians are the agressors, which means they are wrong in what they are doing, that when they start a fight only to lose that fight, no one, but those who do not care about what is right or wrong, will support them.

Israel is right to defend themselves.

them should they be found harboring resistance fighters.

Just wanted to show that anyone would do the same if left without options.

...and how exactly did the Palestinians living in Palestine get there??? I take it they (the Palestinians) should not be allowed to form a State either, right?

I have an entire thread started.I guess someone needs a history lesson.
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Now, now comparing the Persian Empire to the Muslim nation of Iran is disingenous and you know it. Very weak arguement there.

Well same people, you know it runs in the blood.Iranians=persians.






[edit on 1-1-2009 by pepsi78]