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Challenge Match: semperfortis vs schrodingers dog: "All On The Same Date?"

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posted on Dec, 26 2008 @ 01:46 PM
The topic for this debate is “The Chinese New Year Should Be Synchronized With The Gregorian Calendar."

semperfortis will be arguing the pro position and will open the debate.
schrodingers dog will argue the con position.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

There is a 10,000 character limit per post.

Any character count in excess of 10,000 will be deleted prior to the judging process.

Editing is strictly forbidden. For reasons of time, mod edits should not be expected except in critical situations.

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images and must have no more than 3 references.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post. Each individual post may contain up to 10 sentences of external source material, totaled from all external sources.

Links to multiple pages within a single domain count as 1 reference but there is a maximum of 3 individual links per reference, then further links from that domain count as a new reference. Excess quotes and excess links will be removed before judging.

The Socratic Debate Rule is in effect. Each debater may ask up to 5 questions in each post, except for in closing statements- no questions are permitted in closing statements. These questions should be clearly labeled as "Question 1, Question 2, etc.

When asked a question, a debater must give a straight forward answer in his next post. Explanations and qualifications to an answer are acceptable, but must be preceded by a direct answer.

This Is The Time Limit Policy:

Each debate must post within 24 hours of the timestamp on the last post. If your opponent is late, you may post immediately without waiting for an announcement of turn forfeiture. If you are late, you may post late, unless your opponent has already posted.

Each debater is entitled to one extension of 24 hours. The request should be posted in this thread and is automatically granted- the 24 hour extension begins at the expiration of the previous deadline, not at the time of the extension request.

In the unlikely event that tardiness results in simultaneous posting by both debaters, the late post will be deleted unless it appears in its proper order in the thread.

Judging will be done by a panel of anonymous judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. One of the debate forum moderators will then make a final post announcing the winner.

***This Debate Will Begin Sunday December 28th At 12:00pm EST***

[edit on 26-12-2008 by MemoryShock]

posted on Dec, 28 2008 @ 04:08 PM
“The Chinese New Year Should Be Synchronized With The Gregorian Calendar."

semperfortis vs schrodingers dog:

Semper’s Opening

Good day to all:
Let me take a moment and thank my Opponent for his time and attention here in this debate. Memoryshock for his dedication to the Debate Forum and his setting up of this debate for us to engage in, and of course, You, the readers and the judges.

Now let us begin:

With a population of over six billion people, it may sound strange to say the world is getting smaller, but in the context of travel and communications, who could argue this.

Many people communicate in real time chat on the internet that reside directly across the world from each other. Jump on a plane and you are only hours away from a destination that not too very long ago, took literally months. Still we manage to separate ourselves quite nicely, and effectively with all sorts of things like language, borders and that dog gone calendar thing!!!

In this debate I intend on showing that with one BILLION, three hundred MILLION (as of 2007) Chinese souls, they need to “get on board” with the rest of us and start using our Calendar!!!! Especially when they have their “New Year”

Who doesn’t love the New Year? Here in the states it is a right of passage to go to “Times Square” and stand in the cold and watch as that magical glass ball descends towards the last few seconds of the old year; and scream as we bring in the New year…

Or if one can not make it to New York, one may choose to sit and watch Dick Clark and wonder if he truly did come over on the Mayflower, or if he really is Immortal.

Maybe just set some firecrackers off in the back yard and then sip some champagne by the fire.

Why, I ask are we denying the Chinese, or why are they denying themselves, the wonder and magic of celebrating with the rest of the world? ON ONE SINGLE DAY

I mean let’s face it; basing one’s New Year on a Lunar Cycle went out of style with the Native Americans and the Druids and it is FAR to difficult to set down and try and figure out. Especially when one has to order party hats, favors and enough Champagne to drown the mistakes of the previous year.

Why not just have it on the first day of the Gregorian Calendar like the rest of the world?


Here is a GRAND example of why this needs to be changed:

Since Chinese New Year falls on different dates on the Gregorian calendar every year on different days of the week, some of these governments opt to shift working days in order to accommodate a longer public holiday. Also like many other countries in the world, a statutory holiday is added on the following work day when the New Year falls on a weekend.
It is also important to understand that informal celebrations, which may span a period of several weeks before and after the official holidays, are the time when many businesses operate in 'holiday mode', and generally aren't the time for making decisions or business negotiations.


Look at it this way.

As China takes an even more important role in the world economic and political make up, are WE to be expected the place our business and economic lives on hold while they run around shooting off firecrackers and hoisting dragons in the air?


If they want to be a Major Player, they need to learn to act like one.

And COME ON what is the deal with this?

The use of firecrackers, although a traditional part of celebration, has over the years witnessed many unfortunate outcomes. There have been reported incidents every year of users of fireworks being blinded, losing body parts, or suffering other grievous injuries, especially during festive seasons. Hence, governments and authorities eventually enacted laws completely banning the use of firecrackers privately, primarily because of safety issues.


So the country that invented fireworks, needs lessons from us on using them?

Socratic Questions:

1. What harm would there be if the Chinese celebrated their New Year in sync with the Gregorian Calendar?
2. Do you think that a modern country can afford a 15 day celebration where no business is conducted?


To all of our Chinese friends and followers:

This is only a debate and we are having fun with it. Nothing said here is intended to bring discredit or shame on your celebration or to offend you in any way

Now with that being said, I shall turn this over to my esteemed opponent.

Just remember:

“The Chinese New Year Should Be Synchronized With The Gregorian Calendar."

Thank you


posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 04:39 PM
I will claim my 24hr extension.

posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 06:27 AM
“The Chinese New Year Should Be Synchronized With The Gregorian Calendar."

semperfortis vs schrodingers dog:

Semper’s Reply 1

Need to get moving on this:

Now, for a moment let us discuss the NOW, that’s New World Order for those that are uninitiated.

While those with close ties to their individual governments, a sense of patriotism or national identity, this will be abhorrent to them. But in many ways, a “One World Government” would benefit mankind.

Essentially war would be eliminated, disaster response would vastly improve and the digital age of immediate communications would go through the roof.

But we can’t.

Why not?

We live and work from different calendars!!!! And the Chinese take off for weeks at a time for some celebration!!!

How is it that a “New Year” can be celebrated for more than one day anyway?


Some history is appropriate I believe:

The New Year is an event that happens when a culture celebrates the end of one year and the beginning of the next year. Cultures that measure yearly calendars all have New Year celebrations.

In countries governed by the Gregorian calendar, the celebration of New Year is celebrated on January 1, the date that is considered the most festive of them.
Celebrations on the Bay of Valparaiso, Chile; beginning of the show called "New Year at Sea".

Traditionally, the Roman calendar began the first day of March. However, it was in January (the eleventh month) when the consuls of ancient Rome assumed the government. Julius Caesar, in 47 BC, changed the system, creating the Julian calendar, with some modifications in the time of Marco Antonio consul in 44 BC, the emperor Augustus Caesar in 8 BC and finally by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582, is used today. This year begins on January 1. Subsequently, the Gregorian calendar had the habit and the celebration was marked with a religious significance during the Middle Ages and later centuries.

With the expansion of Western culture to the rest of the world during the twentieth century, the January 1 date became universal in nature, even in countries with their own New Year celebrations (e.g., China).

Wiki New Year

Now reading that, why is it that the Chinese still insist on their week long celebration AND the one day the rest of the modern world has set aside?

It has always been my impression that the Chinese people were an industrious people, but looking purely at this issue, it would appear they are a party people.

And what is this all about?

Although the Chinese calendar traditionally did not use continuously numbered years, its years are now often numbered from the reign of Huangdi outside China. But at least three different years numbered 1 are now used by various writers, causing the year beginning in 2008 to be 4706, 4705, or 4645.

Wiki Chinese New Year

At least “3” different “Year One’s”…..


How do they even have any idea when it all started?

Now if you think that is confusing, look at this!!!

I mean look! It is 2009 for goodness sake and time to move past all the mysticism and pandering to the superstitious natures I guess that are inherent in us all and get on with the business of living.

We are in a Global Community and we have Global Economics and Global Communications and Global this and Global that. How can we all ever really come together when we can’t even decide what the New Year is?

Here is a Converter. Look at this and you can get the full impact of how confusing it must be for business people.

Chinese Calendar Converter

I particularly like this:

The traditional Chinese agricultural calendar is primarily lunar, in that the lunar cycle (a lunation) between new moons is a principal part of the calendar. This cycle averages 29.53 days, but can vary by several hours for any given time of the year. A Chinese year normally consists of 12 months where a month corresponds to one lunar cycle. Each month starts on the day of the new moon. Since the cycle is not an even number of days, a month in the lunar calendar can vary between 29 and 30 days and a normal year can be 353, 354, or 355 days.

Chinese Calendar

No wonder everyone wants to live in the West. Enough to drive one MAD!

In the end, it is clear that:

“The Chinese New Year Should Be Synchronized With The Gregorian Calendar."

Thank you


posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 12:04 PM
Due to extraneous circumstances, schrodingers dog will forfiet this debate.

Congratulations to semperfortis.

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