Think the army won't turn on it's citizens?

That's the truth for sure! Call them what you will. Dumb isn't really one of them though. They get it all figured out and get done what they want. to make them richer.

reply to post by RFBurns


You just dont seem to get it do you? If people will fight over an empty parking space or empty shelf in a normal kind of day then what do you think they will do when everything comes crashing down? You also seem to have this idea that if you sit quietly in your house as army tanks and soilders lock down the USA that everything will be fine, that you will somehow be treated differently from the nut cases, you won't.

Personally, I dont like the idea of just sitting around letting the people that ran this country into the ground declare martial law and tell me how they want to rebuild it in their best interest.

So you just sit in your house and let those "in charge" tell you what to do. I would rather try to get a better America.

[edit on 27/12/08 by Pfeil]

reply to post by alyosha1981



May 4th 1970.....people seem to have forgotten what happened on that date.....Ohio national guard fired into a crowd at Kent State, killing 4 students.....

There's a lot of brainwashed people in the military! "since" there's so many sensitive people on ATS let me state that I don't think everyone in the militarily is brainwashed. I think if they where told we need to be put in order and it was for the good of America, surely there would be a large amount of people who would follow orders.

reply to post by ecain


That's the big thing right there. Earlier in the thread was an active Army soldier saying they will follow lawful orders. And if the citizens were to show they were not willing to deal with the situation they will be dealt with by "his guys"

What the average U.S. citizen thinks is lawful and what an average soldier think might be two different things. If a ML situation was to happen and say the Army comes in and the big guys deicide that they need to disarm the population as happened in NO during the Katrina fiasco. I'd like to hear what the veterans and active military think of an order like that.Personally I would have a major issue with that. I might even think about resisting them when they come. What if the guys with the most fruit salad on their uniform say that those that resist giving up their weapons be arrested? Would that be a legal order?

I believe that it's things like this that the American people worry about when thinking that a ML situation might come to their doorstep. So..Soldiers both retired and active; I wish to ask what would you do in that situation?

reply to post by DrumJunkie


I was that soldier and yes, "my guys" will follow lawful orders.

Now - in an ML situation - like I've said in other threads - you have to remember we're educated human beings such as most of you. That being said - we know the difference between right and wrong. If someone tells me that we're going to go directly against the US Constitution (the very document we all signed up and swore to uphold) by taking your 2nd amendment rights.... that # wouldn't happen.

What you forgot to mention in your post was that NO was put in the state it was because "people" were shooting at rescuers and aid workers from hidden positions and rooftops. Come on - are you serious? You fully expect either me or another soldier - not just US but ANY COUNTRY to just sit by and take that? "Oh, it's okay - it's that guy's right to shoot at me - it's his gun." Yeah. Sure. They better hope they get me with the first round, because I won't miss.

---- EDIT TO ADD ----

And yes - that does prove a point. If someone provokes me - I'm going to retaliate. Simple as that. You can call that "military brutality", "harming people" - whatever. But I serve to defend the people of the US - if those people turn on me - then that goes out the window in my mind. But that's if provoked. I don't think in a serious full scale - nation wide - martial law situation we'd be forced to give up all of our weapons. There may very well be checkpoints and stuff where you aren't allowed to bring weapons into certain areas, but I don't see a need to take civilians' weapons from their homes.

As a matter of fact, that's the main reason I don't worry about the US being invaded by another army - (well, except for San Fran). I think people in the US would be the ones out there shooting the invaders before we were ever mobilized. I could be wrong - everyone could just run away, but I think that a lot of people would stick it to em.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by mf_luder]

reply to post by jhill76


The military IS the citizens. The second a dictator arises, the army would be the first to revolt.

You know that 20% lowest approval in decades the government has going? military is the same. Not many soldiers support the gov.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Do you even know any soldiers? You're talking out of your hindquarters.

reply to post by mf_luder


I'll agree NO was not a great example but we really don't have a lot to draw on.

I guess what I'm trying to get to is for the U.S. military to come in and occupy an area to instill curfews many citizens will take exception to that.I'm sure if you were a civilian and had people come in to tell you when you could leave your home and when you could not you might not like that much. Are you wrong for opting to resist such action? who is the patriot and who is the bad guy in that scenario? The American people are not used to being told what to do in that type of situation. We are used to moving freely throughout the country.

Say the place being occupied by the army doesn't believe that anything happened there to justify their rights to free movement about the country? They don't believe they need be punished with as curfew. The government says they've been bad but the locals disagree. And those occupying don't see the bad thing that the brass says transpired? What do the army people do then? By your admission all the population has to do is be aggressive. But to them they are being repressed by their own government. That's the sticky situation I'm sure a lot of people would like to believe that the soldiers would not try and repress them further. But in reality you are telling me that the reason for you coming wont matter as much as what they do once you get there. That in itself is a little unsettling.

I commend you for this good post. It's been the same thing over and over again about how family, friends, and neighbors are enough to keep a person from turning on their own country. But has anyone actually realized that these American Soldiers wouldn't follow their orders willingly unless something was at stake? Example: Their Family... If their orders came from someone who said you do this or that, and your family will stay safe Can you imagine the next thing that their thinking? Oh, well if I don't do it, then my family may be harmed. And bingo, they just earned a very willing army to move in whatever direction they want.

Also, its to my understanding, that some people (not many) join the military for several reasons surrounding they have no family, find the joy in harming others for defense - etc. The list goes on, and we all know how some of the military men/women turn out when they come back home, all a little bit off their normal rocker if you get what I'm saying...


So really, none of us should be judging. We are people after all, and were all bound for mistakes. So think about your family, think about if you were in their position, and THEN imagine what you would do. Thats the best way to think of it.




Peace
Cm

reply to post by mf_luder


FELLOW PEOPLE this man obviously knows what he's talking about. Pay more attention to the previous, or now, U.S. soldiers and what their saying before jumping to anymore conclusions because they know first hand how orders and people work.

The reason they created the Armed Forces was to protect the government in case of an uprising.
Just think of Shay's Rebellion in 1786.
Farmers from western North America were going to jail for not paying taxes with the right form of currency. They had an armed rebellion and closed down court houses.
Soon later they formed an actual army to protect the government from uprisings. Of course, they use armies mostly for wars overseas, but again, that's protecting the government from attacks. Not protecting citizens from attacks.

I think we are suppose to make signs like, I Love You, Son ...
Its ok, we still Love You... come home now, while we still have one - Son..

I think that was what we are suppose to do if they ever turned the military against us citizens ... and if they imposters like hired guns - Black Water ... we suppose to shoot first and ask questions later... but I could be confused and delusional... you never know...

I think a point that most are missing is that of the multitudes of FOREIGN soldiers on our soil right now. They are on various military bases "training" and I don't think they'll care one whit about American citizens.

Our own military will probably be distracted elsewhere like overseas or dealing with some other tasks rather than facing their fellow citizens on the street. The foreign soldiers will be called in to "help" with martial law and/or any rioting on the streets.

I doubt if the foreign soldiers have any family or friends here or cultural memories; certainly no national loyalties to America.

I believe our biggest threat during any ML will be from FOREIGN troops stationed here and not from our own soldiers.

If you know a retired (American) veteran, get some training out of them while you can.