When Did You Choose To Be Straight?

Isn't the choice made for you when you fall in love?

Any person that would state that being in love allows you to make rational choices has obviously never been in love.

So for a gay person, he or she will most likely fall in love with someone of the same sex and have more sexual attraction to same sex then to oposite sex.


When your in love, your in love, there is no choice other then to ride it out to the point of a solid relationship or one of the many heartbreaks your bound to experience in your life.

Choice simply doesn't enter into it.

reply to post by Good Wolf


Well exactly, well put. Yeah if your Gay... the real argument isn't can you change it the real question is Why Would You?

I could see people having valid reasons for doing do, id the desired children of their own if they were gay or if they were straight and didn't want Children a lifestyle vs risk and rewards thing... some people might choose to do it.

But i'd venture to say

The demand isn't very high on either end, once your used to a sexuality and lifestyle few want to change, it's easy for me to say you can but exactly, just like when you asked me why don't I...

The real answer is because i'd have to change my whole life and associations for a sexual experiment when I'm already happy

Gay people mostly would not desire to change their hardwiring right? I mean... It's You, who you are everything in your life is connected it's a main aspect of the foundation of YOU, you'd need some serious motivation beyond "more people will accept me"

It's kind of Funny how we get "Attached to Our identities"

Because people who have a certain sexuality no matter what it is... Just don't want to change, every rationalization will be found to justify it...

LOL if challenged about being a Heterosexual, I'd "Invent" and find every piece of research in the world to make the case i couldn't change no matter how hard i tried... The Thinker Thinks and The Prover proves... Really a Good model of how the mind works.

Some have made the point that This is a pointless debate...

In essence Good Wolf you hit the nail on the Head more than once...

The debate is pointless, thing about sex is, it causes allot of Pleasure, I'll readily admit due to prenatal development it is often the single hardest thing to change about yourself...

But the real Point is NO ONE WANTS TO



People go for sex change operations and we have an Industry around changing the body to match the mind... all that frackin science to alter your whole physical form...

actual work into change of Mind (which in the end is allot easier and non invasive... really if the research was done and methods used)

But no one wants to, most are Horrified at the thought of it...

Me i'm an exception I suppose because I absorb other personalities for much of my adult work, I've always been an exceptional explorer of where I can take my mind... My major in College started as Psychopharmacology... lol

And that said, I wont mess with my sexuality much even knowing how, I like me, I'd resist furiously any attempt to make me do so or do so to me... and Obviously I like to Mess with my head myself... and I won't mess around or risk that part of myself


So that's the whole Thread in a Nutshell... the Answer, No On Actually wants to change their Sexuality they derive pleasure from it.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Halzman
You really dont seem to know much about anything, you're assumptions are almost borderline egotistical.
[edit on 31-12-2008 by Halzman]

Me egotistical?

You're the one basing everything on your own opinions, saying you are correct. You say blacks are thugs do you, based on your own observations....well shall I invite some black members to comment on that?

"But, growing up in New York, I aquired quite a few perceptions of different races, people, etc.. some of which went against me, given my birth country. Spanish people are lazy. Blacks are thugs. Muslims are terrorist. Jews are cheap. etc etc. Some I grew to agree with, others were disproved - all depends on expereinces. But as I aged and matured I realised that opinions and perceptions are just that - opinions and perceptions of OTHERS. So I learned to guage everyone on an individual basis."


Yes, I am basing everything I'm saying on my opinions, cause theres just that, MY opinions. I never said that I was right and everyone else is wrong. I never put a gun to anyones head and told them they have to view it my way.

And go ahead, invite some black members on the forums. I'll even point out where I refer to them. All I wrote was that in the past, based on my aquired perceptions and own expereinces, I drew certain biased conclusions on different races. If you had continued to read you would of seen the part where I mentioned that I have since aged and matured and no longer hold those viewpoints.

I hate people like you. Throw everything out of proportion and make a huge scene.

I wonder what you'll tell me I said next.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I'm going to be studying psychology at university over the next few years and I'm hoping that having same-sex and opposite-sex relationships will help me understand people better; guys, girls, gays and straits.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman

 

I've never took a college class on it if that's what your asking, nor have I spent a significant time researching it. Just my conclusions on the subject really, from experiences, past readings, discussions, etc.

Wikipedia is just a click away, remember.

I have only seen a few female friends who after bad relationships with guys, and were comforted by girls who are either bi or straight up lesbians, becomes lesbians. And like I said. Some stick with it, and others don't - its just a phase for them. Sexual confusion if you will.

You're a bit confused on definitions. If a person is only attracted to members of the same-sex they are homosexual. If they are only attracted to people of the opposite-sex they are heterosexual. If they are attracted to either, then they are bisexual.

If someone has had both same-sex and opposite-sex partners, then they are bi. Bisexuality isn't uncommon. The point is that just because a girl goes into a relationship with another girl, it doesn't strait-oo make her gay, but bi. What people are attracted to doesn't change.

I did wonder if a female's opinion on childbirth (whether to have kids or not) played any significant role in it.

Lesbians adopt too, you know.

Can you back that up with personal experiences? A research paper? A book? Any references? Or is it just something you put together to support your viewpoint?

Personal and extrapersonal experience. I've had no trauma that made me bisexual, and none of the gay people I've known over the years have either.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

I use wiki all the time. This topic has never been of interest though so I've never typed it in. It was never my intention to write up a research paper/book on homosexuality. It was just my 2 cents....

And I agree, I did blend in the bi girls with gay girls. My apologize for that. But this one girl I know, started off with guys for a majority of her life, went bi for a year, then went gay for 4 years, then had a relationship with a guy, and last I saw, was bi again. lol I personally do not know anyone who is 'career' gay, well 1 guy, but I dont know him that well. If people's attractions dont change, then how can you explain bisexuality?


And so that 'most homosexuals dont have a 'hurt' in there past' is based on your experiences with the people you know.


Look, to everyone... what I wrote was how I view this subject, based on my experiences, etc. I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone. If you want to engage in a discussion, that's fine.

reply to post by Halzman

If people's attractions dont change, then how can you explain bisexuality?

Being Bi I can tell you that we are attracted to both masculine and feminine traits. It's not that complicated. It's just having less preference for one gender over the other. It's not a transition sexuality.

Let me introduce you to another concept. The Kinsey Scale.
www.kinseyinstitute.org...

And so that 'most homosexuals dont have a 'hurt' in there past' is based on your experiences with the people you know.

Yes, but the fact that there are so many gays out there who don't have 'hurt' it's clearly not a prerequisite. Many people on this forum will also attest to that.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman

 

If people's attractions dont change, then how can you explain bisexuality?

Being Bi I can tell you that we are attracted to both masculine and feminine traits. It's not that complicated. It's just having less preference for one gender over the other. It's not a transition sexuality.

Let me introduce you to another concept. The Kinsey Scale.
www.kinseyinstitute.org...

And so that 'most homosexuals dont have a 'hurt' in there past' is based on your experiences with the people you know.

Yes, but the fact that there are so many gays out there who don't have 'hurt' it's clearly not a prerequisite. Many people on this forum will also attest to that.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Obviously you are attracted to both male and female traits/qualities if you are bi. But doesn't having a 'higher' preference mean having a specific attraction? If you really want to get technical about it, what is the ratio of male:female relationships you've had, and also what gender you are. Unless you have a 50/50 ratio, you have a specific preference, or in other words, are more attracted to one over the other. If you wanted to take it further, what gender would you pick if you had to choose one last person to spend your life with? That gender would be the one you are more attracted to? no?

I looked at the Kinsey Scale. But as I do with anything I'm told, I did my own search. This Kinsey scale ( basically supports the idea that we constantly change our preference (during different stages in our lives), ranging from Exclusively heterosexual with no homosexual to Exclusively homosexual.

en.wikipedia.org...

After doing my own search, however, I came across someone who doesn't like Mr. Kinsey and his work.

www.drjudithreisman.com...

Also Mr. Kinsey's personal and professional life have controversy.

en.wikipedia.org...

My point is that you made a very general comment which implied that most people in the world who are homosexual, dont have a 'hurt' moment in there past.

* It is interesting to note, that on the bottom of Dr judith reismans site, which I have linked, on the bottom there is a section titled 'Kinsey Information' and a link to an article 'On Kinsey's German, Nazi Pedophile Aide; The New York Times Asks: "Alfred Kinsey: Liberator or Pervert?"'

This is interesting to me because I wonder if there is a link to the illuminati in some way. Satanism supposedly supports homosexually, or bisexually, and given the Nazi connection, and knowing how TPTB would love to have that sort of system, I wonder if there is a connection. Another interesting point to note is that he received funding from the Rockefeller Foundation, and if I remember correctly, Rockefeller is a person who would be on the list of who TPTB are. Felt I should mention it, given this is a conspiracy forum.

reply to post by Halzman

Obviously you are attracted to both male and female traits/qualities if you are bi. But doesn't having a 'higher' preference mean having a specific attraction? If you really want to get technical about it, what is the ratio of male:female relationships you've had, and also what gender you are. Unless you have a 50/50 ratio, you have a specific preference, or in other words, are more attracted to one over the other. If you wanted to take it further, what gender would you pick if you had to choose one last person to spend your life with? That gender would be the one you are more attracted to? no?

I'm male and have had one girlfriend in the past, no boyfriends. I consider myself to be around 3 but likely, ultimately have a preference for females. That hasn't stopped me from becoming deeply infatuated with a member of the same sex in the past.

I don't know which gender I would want my partner to have if I were to spend the rest of my life with them, but I suspect that as I get older and certain biological drives motivate me, I'll likely find a woman to start a family with. But I can't altogether count on that, you can't control who you fall in love with, and if I do, it'll be them.

I don't know much about Kinsey, himself, but the scale I find is rather approachable, it seems to make it easier to explain one's sexuality.

Satanism supposedly supports homosexually, or bisexually, and given the Nazi connection, and knowing how TPTB would love to have that sort of system, I wonder if there is a connection. Another interesting point to note is that he received funding from the Rockefeller Foundation, and if I remember correctly, Rockefeller is a person who would be on the list of who TPTB are. Felt I should mention it, given this is a conspiracy forum.

Well the skunk works are the place to bring it up. However, I feel I should mention that there are two types of Satanism, the right hand path and the left and path. The two are vastly different and should not be grouped as the same thing.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman

 

I'm male and have had one girlfriend in the past, no boyfriends. I consider myself to be around 3 but likely, ultimately have a preference for females. That hasn't stopped me from becoming deeply infatuated with a member of the same sex in the past.

I don't know which gender I would want my partner to have if I were to spend the rest of my life with them, but I suspect that as I get older and certain biological drives motivate me, I'll likely find a woman to start a family with. But I can't altogether count on that, you can't control who you fall in love with, and if I do, it'll be them.

I don't know much about Kinsey, himself, but the scale I find is rather approachable, it seems to make it easier to explain one's sexuality.

When I was younger, and I had my bi-sexual experience, it was mostly a spur of the moment kind of thing. I would just feel, ya know, really good and comfortable around the person and at the time, felt that I was just showing affection to that person, and it never went further then kissing (I'm pretty sure I knew that I was supposed to marry a girl, bu idk, ages ago lol). Could you, if you don't mind talking about it, describe your feelings with same-sex partners? Like, what do you mean by 'deeply infatuated'? Was it just kissing or something, or more?

I've never felt 'love' for a guy though. I've only gotten that 'stop dead in your tracks/hit in the face' love feeling for girls. Falling in love with girls is my crutch lol. Admittedly, some guys I find attractive - but there is no attraction that draws me to them, where I seek a sexual relationship (or even a friendship for that matter). If I find a guy attractive, I'll say 'he's attractive' to myself. If however, I find a girl attractive, I'm going over to talk to her. That's the difference - the will to act.

As for Kinsey and the rockafeller connection - I generally question anything mainstream accepted. My opinion, somewhere down the road, someone influenced it somehow, and thats the only reason why its mainstream. Maybe theres a population control connection, who knows. Reducing the world population is one of TPTB supposed agendas - why not make homosexuality more acceptable.

I hate to quote you and I don't mean to attack you, but what you said about the scale:

"... the scale I find is rather approachable, it seems to make it easier to explain one's sexuality."

I'm not saying your wrong for your feelings, or that I'm right about mine, but just person to person, you should strive to be able to explain your own sexuality yourself, not by a scale that makes it easier.

Remember, the easy path these days means your letting TPTB become your care-takers. They would love you to be dependent on them.

I used to do that kind of stuff all the time. For example: In school I was classified as having ADHD because I 'wasn't working to potential'. And I listened to them and took whatever pills they recommended, etc etc. You know what the problem was? Learning the standard way isn't fun for me. I did excellent in classes were learning was more visual and hands on, then reading a textbook or being instructed step by step. I can only image the damage I did to my kidneys/liver (one or the other, i forget) from taking all those pills they prescribed. All it took was some self discipline and a different method of learning.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman

 

Satanism supposedly supports homosexually, or bisexually, and given the Nazi connection, and knowing how TPTB would love to have that sort of system, I wonder if there is a connection. Another interesting point to note is that he received funding from the Rockefeller Foundation, and if I remember correctly, Rockefeller is a person who would be on the list of who TPTB are. Felt I should mention it, given this is a conspiracy forum.

Well the skunk works are the place to bring it up. However, I feel I should mention that there are two types of Satanism, the right hand path and the left and path. The two are vastly different and should not be grouped as the same thing.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

Yea, I realize its not the proper thread, but saw the immediate connection and figured I'd mention it. If I feel like doing some more research on it and I'll start a different thread.

I am also aware of the differences of satanism. I was referring to some material I saw in a video I have on the subject. I was referring to the satanism relating to the illuminati, free masons, skull & bones, etc.

I chose to be straight when I saw a couple of my female classmates when they were starting to become "developed" . I had a fantasy about both of them , good memories good memories. I apologize for the frankness but I believe straightness develops just around or just before puberty.

reply to post by Halzman

Could you, if you don't mind talking about it, describe your feelings with same-sex partners? Like, what do you mean by 'deeply infatuated'? Was it just kissing or something, or more?

Something more. What more need I say? It's not "just affection" to me.

I have had the exact same feelings for a few girls I've known, aswell.

Have a look at this and see if there is anything on there you're not already aware of. Then if you have more Q's I'll do my best to adequately answer them.
www.msu.edu...

[edit on 1/1/2009 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by wiredamerican
I chose to be straight when I saw a couple of my female classmates when they were starting to become "developed" . I had a fantasy about both of them , good memories good memories. I apologize for the frankness but I believe straightness develops just around or just before puberty.

I don't think straightness develops just before puberty, but that it and homosexuality lie dormant (from birth) and we get to know our sexually orientation via an activation signal--puberty that is.
Just like many others on this thread, I believe sexual orientation is not chosen since willing oneself to be attracted to the same sex is futile. You can deny your sexuality, and choose to marry a gender your not truly attracted to, but you and your brain know the real truth.

I had a whole big lot of stuff to post, but just let me put in a quick post in support of "change." I will also try to make the point that changing yourself "isn't" lying to yourself.

Let us say that there is a person we know who is scared of people. What if he were to say, "Well, I'm just a person who is scared of people. There is no sense in lying to myself about it, and I can't change that." Is he making the best decision for himself by accepting the "fate" of people fear? What if he started believing in himself, and got rid of his fear of people? I think he would have a better life, and more opportunities would present themselves to him.

He really "was" scared of people, but now he "isn't." That is a 180 degree change, going the opposite way. And, this indeed does happen. He's not lying to himself, he is not scared of people now.

Why is being "gay" any different? You could change that fact and go the other way, and never go back. Wouldn't it be simpler to just be straight? It fully supports natural reproduction and continuation of the human race, so reproduction stays simple. You wouldn't be lying to yourself, because you wouldn't be gay. It takes a dedicated decision, yes, but that doesn't mean it won't become as natural as being "gay" felt. You have a lot more power than you think you have.

No matter what your position is folks, have a Happy New Year! Let's make it a great year.

Troy

reply to post by cybertroy


I tried. I failed. But I don't really see why anyone aught to. I mean really, what's the big deal.

It fully supports natural reproduction and continuation of the human race, so reproduction stays simple.

Homosexuality has always been around in humanity, and we're still here. The human population is on the rise, so if anything it needs to be curbed. These two things on their lonesome make homosexuality no threat to human reproduction.

[edit on 1/1/2009 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by DantesLost


Being straight is normal. Gay isn't as straightforward. What do you think the ratio of hetro/homo is? Homo is significantly less.

And doesn't homosexuality kick in during puberty? Why would someone make the decision before then? It's hereditary.

I could never be gay. It feels unnatural to me because I'm straight.

reply to post by KIRKSTERUK

Well it kicks in at puberty, but that's not when it starts, it starts at the beginning of life and remains inert for some time. Same as heterosexuality.

I've had some interesting discussions regarding this with homo- and heterosexuals. The homosexuals always say they knew from childhood they were gay. My question has always been, what does a child know about sexuality to know that they are gay? Their answer is usually that they just knew.

My theory is that homo-sexuals (usually male) had one or more of the following happen in their lives (and often due to personal weakness or character flaws) 'become gay':
1. Were abused as a child sexually, emotionally or physically. I don't have any figures but to the best of my knowledge a large percentage of boys who were sodomised become gay.
2. They might have preferred to play with dolls or even dressed up in their sister's clothes and were influenced into thinking they were gay.
3. Had a weak father or their father was never around.

I've had something bad happen in my youth and it has affected me regarding my sexual preference. I CHOOSE to be heterosexual even though there are influences in my life which could push me the other way.

The above apply to women as well, but you can also add that they might have just had bad sexual experiences with men, tried the other way and liked it.

I came to these conclusions from my own personal experience and the experiences of others.

As for when we choose to be straight? We are influenced into being straight. It is the "norm". If a boy goes to a new school his dad doesn't ask him "any cute boys at the new school?" does he? Boys take girls to the prom, not other boys and many other things including the media, movies, etc.

reply to post by Lannock


Will the congregation join me in prayer.

Dear gods,those of any and all religions,please save the world from such ignorance.

This theory is not only offensive but so highly flawed,it boggles the mind.Please educate this poor fool and others like him.Grant him the insight to see that such a statement as this,

My question has always been, what does a child know about sexuality to know that they are gay? Their answer is usually that they just knew.

is contradictory.If they just knew,then they didn't choose.

Please give him the good grace to read through previous posts,so he can then see the error of his ways.And if it be in you power,please give him and those like him,some more brain cells,as no doubt such ignorance and stupidity appears in all areas of their lives,not just in debates on sexuality.

This prayer is offered with a sincere heart,and a weariness that such beliefs,thought to have died out with the dinosaurs,still exist.

Guranga.



[edit on 1-1-2009 by DantesLost]

Originally posted by DantesLost
reply to post by Lannock

 

This theory is not only offensive but so highly flawed,it boggles the mind.Please educate this poor fool and others like him.Grant him the insight to see that such a statement as this,

My question has always been, what does a child know about sexuality to know that they are gay? Their answer is usually that they just knew.

is contradictory.If they just knew,then they didn't choose.

Please give him the good grace to read through previous posts,so he can then see the error of his ways.

[edit on 1-1-2009 by DantesLost]

My statement is not contradictory. If a child does not know about sex how on Earth can it know what it's sexual PREFERENCE is?

Reading through the previous posts will not change my OPINION. I never said I was right and you are wrong. You sound like someone who has a major stick up their behind. I wonder what happpened to you to make you gay...