When Did You Choose To Be Straight?, page 15
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reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 04:24 PM by DantesLost
reply to post by ALLis0NE


So,before you set eyes on an attractive women you found men and women attractive?

You must have if you chose.
Choice comes from having 2 or more things to choose from.

And homosexuals can still have children y'know.


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 05:44 PM by mopusvindictus
reply to post by DantesLost


Also in Response to Good Wolf


The Methods by which a person can actually re hardwire themselves, behavior and other aspects of their "Very being"

Simply are not present in any aspects of Modern Psychology

The only guy that truely gets into the topic outside (I am assuming) of Intelligence Agencies, Would Be The Late Dr Leary

The are some basic truths that Re hard wiring the brain is not only possible I actively can do it, so do many people.

Various Methods, Drugs, Deep Meditation, Isolation, Intense Hypnosis

Methods used by a common shrink would be useless and lead to confusion and distress.

The process of hardwiring behavior happens during moments of extreme Emotion, Distress, Trauma etc... Apparently it's a variant form of Serotonin that's responsible not very dissimilar to some of the psychedelic substance

Like when you learn to ride a bike or drive a car, the associated Stress leaves your mind open to being Hardwired, soon you will be able to just ride, without thinking at all...

Rewiring, controlling the process can be done, harder perhaps in regards to sexuality, some of "the wiring" for lack of a better word, happens during Fetal development, the very structure of the Brain

One of the things linked to homosexual behavior in men is the amount of cross talk in the frontal lobe between the right and left hemispheres, it's more active like a womans.

Men who are straight do sometimes become Bi or Gay as a result of use of Amphetamines and Cocaine, something, perhaps something else also seems to be responsible for an increased desire to be "a bottom/ submissive" It's well known in those circles the chemicals will enhance you submissive sexuality very often...

Likewise the Example of Jail, Isolation, Fear, group Dynamics are all there, the ingredients are right to rewire a person, on all levels...

Extreme Trauma, A break up, Horribly Abusive Spouse, Molestation, Divorce sometimes... can create enough stress and enough mental conditioning and bias to swing some one over to a different sexuality

Just SOME examples

But I Agree... Going to a shrink would be useless, very mild hypnosis and therapy.. 1 hr a week

The worse part of it is it would have a mild effect, you could get into the mindset, desire it and fail, because your not wiring in fully anything new nor associating the old with anything bad...

Could really jumble a person up...

I'm talking about... Being a person who practices brain change as part of your life and knowing how to do it well... Most people have no control or understanding of the process whatsoever

It's a sort of taboo topic, the realm of big brother and fringe psychiatry and sex magic and hypnosis

and it's scary for people

But we practice it in limited form in the creative arts all the time Writing, Acting, Role Play, Hypnosis and in daily life... , Meditation, Drug

The practice of assuming the other sexuality exists in Tantra

There are people who are very good at it

In here you will often here stories about people who are victims of Ritual Satanic Child Abuse and they will tell you that it is used in combination with drugs often Coke to "Fracture" the Mind of victims into multiple personalities and while I know nothing of individuals that do so, the methods ring true.

We have as a society an extreme set of prejudices against Mind control... people Fear being controlled and those in power do not wish us to be able to control our own minds...

But it is truely possible and done all the time.

When a Child is molested, the Trauma will very often radically be altered of sexuality...

While basic Biology controls our predisposition as dictated by chemical release in the womb, the hard wiring of our brains and what we connect happens for a life time and with most common frequency when young.

Most of our sexual Tastes, develop after Birth and they are hardwired, usually they will go along with natural responses... i.e. Naturally your wired to be hetero and you shave a very pretty babysitter or see a beautiful actress on Tv when your a young child, and forever you prefer Brunettes because you had that rush from contact with her and it Hard Wires...

The natural chemical process that causes that dies down as we age, but it's not GONE, it can be released under more extreme circumstances

Child is straight, molested by same sex, becomes gay or a cross dresser

Fetishes form this way, when things go slightly awry

Perhaps for one person, his first arousal moment is... a hot school teacher, very common one... for ever that look will arouse that person sometimes to the point of fetish or even so strongly nothing else will arouse them...

(I like Sarah Palin 90% for that reason)

I do believe that Homosexuality is Often, represented because of Pre Birth Conditions, and that Genetics would have an impact on the process, i.e. what hormone levels mom has what kind of brain your pre disposed to

But it's still malleable and in an extreme way through child hood and you can take control of the process as an Adult...


But lol our society shuns and is scared of both Mental Enhancement and Trans humanism both of which I am a big fan of.



Try getting the study done in the USA lol... Sell it to Academia lol

"We intend to drop 5 Hetero Sexual Males into an Isolation Chamber with a mixture of amphetamines and psilocybin and Play gay porn and hypnosis feminization tapes at him

(they'd figure out a better chemical mix)

I can assure you rebirth those guys when that door opens into a Gay friendly atmosphere to enforce it and keep them there a week, they will re hardwire Gay

People hire Reprogrammers to get kids out of cults and stuff all the time

They don;t use the tactics a "therapist" does... they tie the person to a bed scare the crap out of them bombard them isolate them, open the process, fillt heir heads in an intense state of fear while doped up and set them loose into a positive enforcement group... it works...

Wanna get compliance and scare a guy to your will and thinking, mafia does it all the time, drop the guy into a meat locker or the trunk of your car scared poopless for 24 hrs...

When he comes at and you MOM talk to him out of that womb like state... it will make a very strong and ultimately Hardwired impression

The Method in which you Choose... to alter yourself is of course more pleasant


With allot of practice you can control your ability to Think and believe what you wish... Writing, Acting, Roleplay, Lucid Dreaming for years and years is how I built the ability

Then it's just a matter of opening up the process and enforcing it... putting yourself an extreme state of mental vulnerability is what's required and what the EGO fears so much it is not socially acceptable to do...

I can pass a lie detector test anytime I want... I believe the lie, I can believe what i wish, so I can believe the Lie, but when you fear that just ask yourself, wasn't the first imprint also a lie, simply a connection? a Program? and when you understand that it is in the end all programs. Then your free to truely invent yourself

How many of can carry or control our Emotional State to a degree where we "feel it" Musicians and Actors and other creative types have a great edge... but it's an ability we have... I can cry on command, I can make something scare me even if it isn't real, but feel the fear, I can open my mind the chemical process and then feed it what I wish at will and NO... I don't need dope to do it...

I can absolutely form another personality in my head and assume that personality to the point where I change, where I perceive the world as another person would male, female, doesn't matter

This is also why so many creative types loose their marbles, doing it, lifestyle, via excess and experience without controls or conscious intent.

Although I would say that something as deeply wired as sexuality perhaps components originating in the composition of the brain before birth, chemical use would be needed unless you really were practiced in meditation and brain change over many years to the point of being a shaman of sorts or a yogi etc



reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 07:02 PM by Halzman
My opinion on the subject.... I'm a 23 yr old male, btw. When I was younger, in elementary school, I had a few same sex experiences, with just kissing. I also recall that with my sister, we would kiss here and there. Now I'm not saying we would sit there and make out, but if we were playing or something, it would happen. That period seems to have been a phase. Prior to that 'phase', I had several 'girl-friends'. You know, just more kissing and stuff.

What was interesting about this period however, is that, after a certain incident in elementary school (one of the boys that I had kissed, there parents made a huge stink about it) I was basically taught who I should be kissing. For me, kissing was just a way of expressing a feeling. I didn't understand the concept that if your a guy, you kiss girls, and vice versa. If someone made me feel emotionally good, I would want to kiss them. On the flip side however, if your too pushy towards a girl, you get slapped in the face with sexual harassment (which also, an incident came up in elementary school with this guy who had given a note to a girl... and got burned for it)

But in terms of like sexual interests, I was always attracted to girls. Looking back on that time with my current knowledge I have only one conclusion. Humans are designed to be two different types: male and female. You need both to reproduce, duh... no brainer. This is where sex, obviously, comes into play. 2 Males or 2 Females wont do squat for each other. You may be able to show affection towards each other, but in terms of survival, either couple, and there blood lines, would die off with them.

Affection - this is what I didn't understand as a child, and got in trouble for it. Before being 'taught', kissing was a form of expressing affection towards someone. Kinda like saying 'thank you' to someone. Modern society however, views this type of same sex affection as 'gay'. So today, based on how I was taught, instead of a kiss on the cheek or lips, you do a hand shake, pat on the back, w/e. So, in terms of survival, there is no room for 'gay' - its just man and woman. But in terms of showing emotional support/affection, being 'gay' may not be so bad - but is not widely accepted.

I had read an article some time back that blamed men not being 'men' for the cause of lesbians. In short it summarized that because most men today aren't really men, but are rather wussies, is what lead women to be turned off by guys, and since women naturally understand each other, were more able to fill the void of being 'loved'. This reminds me of a quote, "A friend is someone who supports my ego. My enemy is someone who doesn't". I think this really sums up what is going on. The same argument can be said about both sides:

Men - women are greedy, manipulative, and controlling. I'd rather deal with a guy. Women - men are insensitive, self centered, and wussies. I'd rather deal with a girl.

Now I have a few gay friends (male and female), however, this kind of conversation has never come up. But to me personally, from what I've observed, both groups are just trying to fill that void of affection, and rather then deal with the opposite sex, feels more comfortable with the same sex. And from there, well, you can just use simple logic. Man + Women = Life, Male + Male = Neutral, Women + Women = Neutral. As someone mentioned, good population control mechanism. I'll probably get bashed for saying this but.... To me, being gay is the same as being depressed and not doing anything about it. You just want to sit there and feel sorry for yourself.


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 07:02 PM by Halzman
If a girl has had one too many bad relationships with guys, she'll most likely try dating girls - seen it happen plenty of times. Does it always stay that way? No, obviously not. Some end up finding guys, and some stay with girls. It really depends on how big of a 'scar' guys left. But it extends beyond that. I've seen girls who straight up hate guys, just date them only to manipulate and take advantage of them - and then do whatever they want behind there backs.

And for men, is more or less the same. One too many bad experiences with girls has led guys to switch sides, and again, some stay and others go back. However, it usually only happens when you have 2 guys who are in similar positions - they both have countless bad experiences with girls. I think this is because of how uncommon it is for guys to do certain things with other guys. I mean, girls go to the bathroom together, they change together, they go shopping together - they are generally more open with each other, sexually and non-sexually. How many groups of guy friends do you know change together? There not exposed to it, and are pressured by society to not be gay.

And then of coarse you have the environmental factors - who you were raised by, what area you were raised in (politically speaking), etc etc. Heres a good example (theoretical example atleast) - put 12 guys and 12 girls in a concealed room, the only catch is that neither groups were ever told what gender they should mate with. It may not happen immediatley at first, but I can garuntee, that at the end of that experiment, your going to have 12 pairs of male-female couples. I kinda chuckled to myself when I was reading through this thread, with the whole 'its a choice'. Its not so much a choice, as it is an escape. Am I against gay couples? Absolutely not - go ahead, knock your socks off.

My concern is the future of humanity though, and this is why the only problem I have with gay couples, is them adopting children. You see, by having a gay couple raise a child they adapt, they are immediately exposing the child to certain preconditioned opinions. I mean, if gay parents would teach there children certain general info on sexuality, mating, reproduction, that is specifically aimed at normal straight couples (since that is the 'norm') - ok fine, it adds a nice balance to the situation, giving the child the choice in the matter - But come on.... would they? I mean theres a reason why there gay.... they already have an opinion on the matter, which was great enough to change there entire sexuallity.

Both my parents and Israeli. I was born in Santiago, Chile and was adopted by them when I was a few weeks old. I have no memory of my real mom or my life in Chile. I dont speak spanish, I have no sense of belonging to my original birth country. Quite literally, I was born in Chile, and then brought to America with a clean slate mind. Absolutely no previous influences. I have been aware of my adoption since I was a child, it was never a secret. But, growing up in New York, I aquired quite a few perceptions of different races, people, etc.. some of which went against me, given my birth country. Spanish people are lazy. Blacks are thugs. Muslims are terrorist. Jews are cheap. etc etc. Some I grew to agree with, others were disproved - all depends on expereinces. But as I aged and matured I realised that opinions and perceptions are just that - opinions and perceptions of OTHERS. So I learned to guage everyone on an individual basis. I mean, I joined the Army because of my 'jewish' background and my perception of muslims. And when I found out the facts (in regard to 9/11 and a whole other bunch of conspiracies), I got angry. I had basically been used by my parents and by the world. I was meant to be taught certain things, feel a certain way, etc. Even if something happened that contradicted my beleifs, I dismissed them, being ashamed that I even felt a way I wasn't meant to feel.


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 07:28 PM by Halzman
Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by Halzman
If a girl has had one too many bad relationships with guys, she'll most likely try dating girls - seen it happen plenty of times.


Thats ridiculous

Ive never seen it happen. The girls I know, rather than pursuing the opposite sex, take a break from having a relationship. I have also seen a lesbian friend of mine in the same situation, rather than pursuing men, she just went out and had casual fun with some other lesbians.

Personally Ive had bad relationships with females too, did that drive me to homosexuality? No, im still straights as can be and happy about it. You really dont seem to know much about anything, you're assumptions are almost borderline sexist


You've never seen it happen. The girls you know. You have also seen. You've had some bad relationships. Your still straight.

First of all, I clearly wrote that I have seen girls do that, which implies in my area. If you haven't seen it, then good for you. I suppose that means that if you haven't seen it, it just simply doesn't exist.

I've also had bad relationships with girls. And, oh gee wiz, I'm not gay either. Did I consider it a few times after those bad relationships. I gave it a thought. Just because those situations were not so bad for me, it could easily have been nothing to another person and everything to another. You really dont seem to know much about anything, you're assumptions are almost borderline egotistical.



Oh and btw, mopusvindictus, excellent post! Loved every word of it.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Halzman]


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 07:44 PM by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman


You talk a lot about group dynamics but unless I missed something, you don't much recognise the causes of non-heterosexuality.

One's sexuality is not seen to sway much at all due to the environment. Only those who have flexible and somewhat undefined sexualities will be influenced by thier relationships and other experiences. Most have rigid sexualities

Sexuality is not psychological, it's physiological. It's for this reason that people say "I was always attracted to girls/guys." People won't change orientation because of bad break-ups or what they are taught as a child. A strait guy is drawn to the physique and the curves and features of a beautiful woman, not because he is pressured to but because that's how he's built. It's the same for all sexualities.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:05 PM by Halzman
Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman


You talk a lot about group dynamics but unless I missed something, you don't much recognise the causes of non-heterosexuality.

One's sexuality is not seen to sway much at all due to the environment. Only those who have flexible and somewhat undefined will be influenced by relationships and other experiences.

Sexuality is not psychological, it's physiological. It's for this reason that people say "I was always attracted to girls/guys." People won't change orientation because of bad break-ups or what they are taught as a child. A strait guy is drawn to the physique and the curves and features of a beautiful woman, not because he is pressured to but because that's how he's built. It's the same for all sexualities.


I feel that the cause of non-heterosexuality comes from a person's environment, but from the start, everyone's sexuality is based on physiological reasons, as you said. That's what I was referring to with my 12 male, 12 female 'experiment' - Physiologically, we are meant to be paired as male-female couples. If however, the environment and/or emotional state of the person (flexible and somewhat undefined) is right, you have the potential of significant change in that person, which is what mopusvindictus' post explained, in regard to extreme methods.

From what I can tell, you seem to feel that the cause of non-heterosexuality is only psychological, when the persons sexuality is flexible and somewhat undefined and influenced by relationships and other experiences - Otherwise a person's sexuality is based on physiological factors only.

I completely agree with you. Perhaps you did miss something.


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:13 PM by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman


How much research have you done in how a person's orientation forms?

Influences on sexual orientation

The American Academy of Pediatrics has stated "Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences."[27] Debate continues over what biological and/or psychological variables influence sexual orientation in humans, such as genes and the exposure of certain levels of hormones to fetuses. Freud and other psychoanalysts maintain that sexual orientation is influenced by numerous factors including formative childhood experiences in some cases.

Prenatal hormones on developing fetus

The hormonal theory of sexuality holds that, just as exposure to certain hormones plays a role in fetal sex differentiation, such exposure also influences the sexual orientation that emerges later in the adult. Fetal hormones may be seen as either the primary influence upon adult sexual orientation, or as co-factor interacting with genes and/or environmental and social conditions.

Birth order

Recent studies found an increased chance of homosexuality in men whose mothers previously carried to term many male children. This effect is nullified if the man is left-handed.[29] No similar effect was found in women.

Genetic factors

Research has identified several biological factors which may be related to the development of sexual orientation, including genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure. No single controlling cause has been identified, and research is continuing in this area. At one time, twin studies appeared to point to a major genetic component, but problems in experimental design of the available studies have made their interpretation difficult, and one recent study appears to exclude genes as a major factor.

Innate bisexuality

Innate bisexuality, or predisposition to bisexuality, is an idea introduced by Sigmund Freud, based on work by his associate Wilhelm Fliess. According to this theory, all humans are born bisexual but through psychological development, which includes both external and internal factors, become monosexual while the bisexuality remains in a latent state.

Choice

There is disagreement among scientists about whether choice could play any role in the development of sexual orientation.

Dr. Angela Pattatucci, a clinical biologist said, "["Lifestyle"] is idiotic when applied to sexual orientation – would you refer to lefthandedness as an 'alternative lifestyle? – but the problem is that through misuse by the media and in political rhetoric it's become ubiquitous.... When reporters use it, it is simply intellectual laziness. But some people adore that word, and the reason is probably in many cases, I'm very sorry to say, that it is such an inaccurate description of homosexuality, implying that sexual orientation is something one chooses, something frivolous or faddish, determined by what you do, as opposed to an internal orientation that is a component of what you are."
Influences on sexual orientation

Seems to explain why people often say that the sexuality that they are is what they always were. Also suggests that they always will be.

But I can't help but think, why would someone want to change their sexuality? If they enjoy or are predisposed to same-sex relationships, whats wrong with that? Defect it may be but it becomes a part of who they are, part of their identity.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:21 PM by Halzman
Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by Halzman
To me, being gay is the same as being depressed and not doing anything about it. You just want to sit there and feel sorry for yourself.


And how about that quote huh?

You explain that you have nothing against homosexuals, yet you feel the need to say that?

You said in a post before that you dont believe its a choice, yet that quote suggests that its something that can be changed, with reference to depression.

Careful what you write, you're contradicting your own posts


Naturally, I feel, everyone is straight. It's not like your born and then you choose whether you want to be straight or gay.

If a person is, however, emotional hurt/undefined sexually, and they begin 'feeling sorry for themselves', they then feel as though they have a choice, in regard to there sexuality.

As for my reference to depression. When someone is depressed (emotionally hurt/undefined sexually) they usually have feelings of worthlessness, guilt or regret, helplessness and hopeless, etc. In this emotional state, they are more open to influence. They want to be comforted. This is when they'll make friends who support there ego's, just so that they can feel better. And just as a depressed person will search for support (feeling sorry for themselves) so will a person who is emotionally hurt/undefined sexually who is seeking sexual support/relationship.

And no, I dont have a problem with homosexuality. As I said, they can knock there socks off with that. So comparatively, to my depression example, if they dont want to 'grow up', then they dont have to. I just dont feel they should have the same 'roles' as mature people.



I knew writing in this thread was going to be a bad idea.... lol


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:29 PM by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman

If a person is, however, emotional hurt/undefined sexually, and they begin 'feeling sorry for themselves', they then feel as though they have a choice, in regard to there sexuality.


Most homosexuals have no "hurt" in their past that they can trace it back to.


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:33 PM by Halzman
Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman


How much research have you done in how a person's orientation forms?

Took out original quoted material from link, so I could write more lol
Influences on sexual orientation

She's to explain why people often say that the sexuality that they are is what they always were. Also suggests that they always will be.

But I can't help but think, why would someone want to change their sexuality? If they enjoy or are predisposed to same-sex relationships, whats wrong with that? Defect it may be but it becomes a part of who they are, part of their identity.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]


I've never took a college class on it if that's what your asking, nor have I spent a significant time researching it. Just my conclusions on the subject really, from experiences, past readings, discussions, etc.

Interesting material you posted though. I have only seen a few female friends who after bad relationships with guys, and were comforted by girls who are either bi or straight up lesbians, becomes lesbians. And like I said. Some stick with it, and others don't - its just a phase for them. Sexual confusion if you will.

I did wonder if a female's opinion on childbirth (whether to have kids or not) played any significant role in it. Whereas girls who did want to have children just had a 'phase' and went back to normal relationships with men, or a girl who because wasn't interested in giving birth, was more willing to stay gay.... just a thought.


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:40 PM by Halzman
Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman

If a person is, however, emotional hurt/undefined sexually, and they begin 'feeling sorry for themselves', they then feel as though they have a choice, in regard to there sexuality.


Most homosexuals have no "hurt" in their past that they can trace it back to.


Can you back that up with personal experiences? A research paper? A book? Any references? Or is it just something you put together to support your viewpoint?


If it that was the case, and most homosexuals have no 'hurt' to trace there homosexuallity too, then fine. I never claimed that I just figured out homosexuality. I gave my thoughts and opinions on the matter. If you disagree, that's fine too. But be responsible and back up your statements. If you can disprove my opinions, with facts, or you can persuade me with personal experiences to view it your way, then go ahead. As I always say, "we the learn the most about ourselves from our enemies". Expand my understanding of the subject.

Again, from my experiences, I have seen, that girls who are 'hurt' (like crying, screaming, about to slit there wrist hurt) emotionally, and if they are comforted by either someone who is bi or straight up gay, they've become either bi or gay, and either stuck with it or dropped it.


reply posted on 31-12-2008 @ 08:43 PM by Good Wolf
reply to post by Halzman

I've never took a college class on it if that's what your asking, nor have I spent a significant time researching it. Just my conclusions on the subject really, from experiences, past readings, discussions, etc.

Wikipedia is just a click away, remember.

I have only seen a few female friends who after bad relationships with guys, and were comforted by girls who are either bi or straight up lesbians, becomes lesbians. And like I said. Some stick with it, and others don't - its just a phase for them. Sexual confusion if you will.

You're a bit confused on definitions. If a person is only attracted to members of the same-sex they are homosexual. If they are only attracted to people of the opposite-sex they are heterosexual. If they are attracted to either, then they are bisexual.

If someone has had both same-sex and opposite-sex partners, then they are bi. Bisexuality isn't uncommon. The point is that just because a girl goes into a relationship with another girl, it doesn't strait-oo make her gay, but bi. What people are attracted to doesn't change.

I did wonder if a female's opinion on childbirth (whether to have kids or not) played any significant role in it.

Lesbians adopt too, you know.

Can you back that up with personal experiences? A research paper? A book? Any references? Or is it just something you put together to support your viewpoint?

Personal and extrapersonal experience. I've had no trauma that made me bisexual, and none of the gay people I've known over the years have either.

[edit on 31/12/2008 by Good Wolf]
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