American was a Christian Nation-What happened?

Alright…what has Christianity delivered for you? Record trade surplus, zero unemployment, universal healthcare and retirement, the end of war, hunger and disease…oops no, that’s what Christianity has not brought you.

What you have learned through fine Christian principals (which by the way the non-Christian indigenous life in our country was brutally stamped out) is to never, ever question the word of G-d. Whether the word is written by G-d knows who? Or the word is spoken from some pulpit, G-d’s word is not to be questioned…roughly translated some things can never be questioned or should be questioned like…

Why all American non defense related manufacturing has been transferred off shore with a crippling effect on the nation’s ability to generate wealth.

Why we can give 60 billion plus dollars to a Zionist, secular Israel but not find money to actually provide full health care to our own citizens. Before you scream Social Security…not if your self employed which more and more Americans who can’t find middle class jobs have learned to become.

Why a provincial backwater like Jerusalem is worth nearly 4 billion of the earth’s inhabitants fighting over while a fair portion of the remaining 2 billion starve.

Christianity has one incredibly bleak track record going for it.

No doubt you take stock and comfort though that it ultimately leads to a safe and wonderful place and event called Armageddon.


[edit on 26/12/08 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by MatrixProphet

There is a difference between being religous and being spiritual. The Pharisees were religous. Jesus was spiritual. There comes a time in our lives when we must decide what to believe in. I believe in God, but I don't attend church. I meditate, I read the Bible, I pray, and I serve in ways I feel led to.
It is my belief that it is time for those of us who want this country to return to it's roots to stand up and say so. It is time to take the power back from the those who havd usurped it. It doesn't have to be violent, it just has to be firm. Civil Disobedience, a willingness to stand up for what is right is what it will take. I just wonder how many Americans today would pledge their lives, their fortures, their sacred honor, for the country that has given them so much?

reply to post by kettlebellysmith

There is a difference between being religous and being spiritual. The Pharisees were religous. Jesus was spiritual. There comes a time in our lives when we must decide what to believe in. I believe in God, but I don't attend church. I meditate, I read the Bible, I pray, and I serve in ways I feel led to.

Yes, we agree. I did not learn the difference between the two until I really started to examine my religion. I discovered there was more allegiance to the religion and its leaders, with its teachings, than to a God consciousness - amongst the majority.

Originally posted by kettlebellysmithto.
It is my belief that it is time for those of us who want this country to return to it's roots to stand up and say so. It is time to take the power back from the those who havd usurped it. It doesn't have to be violent, it just has to be firm. Civil Disobedience, a willingness to stand up for what is right is what it will take. I just wonder how many Americans today would pledge their lives, their fortures, their sacred honor, for the country that has given them so much?

I'm with you Kettlebelly!!! Roots, you damn right! This country was built on the backs of slaves and it's time we return to our God given right to own other people. How much is that blond over there?

Leviticus 25:44

To hell with Civil Disobedience!! Let's get nasty!!

[edit on 26-12-2008 by whaaa]

Christmas has nothing to do with christianity.

Christmas is a germanic tradition from the german tribes in europe.
It was common to celebrate the nearing end of the winter in europe, because live was hard. The tradition is way older than any christian tradition.

Would this view be true if you looked at it from the Native American perspective?

Native Americans were given blankets infected with small pox from Christians, they had their land stolen by Christians, they were hunted like dogs by Christians and a good scalp would fetch an ounce of silver.

If you ask the Shaman where is land is he replies " my land is where our dead lie buried with no markers or stone as the land itself is the marker and the stone..."

reply to post by whaaa
No country is perfect, just as no man is perfect. We made mistakes, and we will make more mistakes. But we need to return toour basic priniciples.
And if you want to get nasty, I never leave home unarmed, and am never more than six inches from a weapon. I just try to follow the way of the peaceful warrior.

reply to post by whiteraven
My native american blood greives for what was done to our people. But we cannot undo the past, we can only try to work toward a better future. We will make mistakes, we will disagree, but in the end, if we apply the correct principles, we will have a better country and a better world.

Originally posted by davion

Do you want a tissue or something?

This is hilarious because it's exactly what's going on here.

If I recall correctly, it was Bush that said Atheists weren't real Americans or something along those lines. Yet, Christians are the ones who are suffering. Give me a break.

Apparently it's only permissible to make religious movies and documentaries, but movies that show an opposing view are forbidden. Why don't you just burn them at the stake?

I still can't believe how religious this country is. It serves no purpose anymore, which is why the majority of Western and Northern Europe has abandoned it.

reply to post by GeeGee


I'd take that whole "Bush said atheists aren't citizens/patriotic" with a grain of salt, because there are no audio recordings of that interview or anything on video; it seemed to only come from one source and I don't think the source was very reputable.

Of course there are plenty of Americans out there that actually DO believe and have said on these very boards that atheists shouldn't be citizens and aren't patriotic. You just have to go towards the bottom of this website where the religious forums are hidden and visit one of the many pointless arguments on religion and/or evolution.

Originally posted by C0le
I honestly don't understand the religious types...

First not everyone believes in God.
Second, not everyone believes in the Christian version of god.
Third, The two above should have no bearing on you, they aren't preventing you from worshiping your god or practicing your religion, If you need symbols and idols plastered all over the place to make you feel better, Then Christianity obviously isn't the religion your following as last time I checked it opposes such symbolism...

This symbolism you refer to...is allowed and encouraged. Idolatry is what you are referring to. Christians don't allow practice of praising Idol,s they regularly encourage the use of symbols.

We regularly use symbols. Just this Christmas, you saw a bunch of people taking a piece of hay blessed by the parishioners to put inn their wallet. They said, " to those who have it in their wallet may never go broke" basically saying God promises the wealth we NEED (different than want mind you) and that with Jesus, we can get it. See! Big ol misunderstanding.

Also St. Nick plastered everywhere, The cross ( a symbol of Jesus' sacrifice) does make a Christian feel good. Helps remind us of the Good Lord's gift to us and lets us take a break froom the monotony of daily thoughts etc.

gooo Jeeeeeesus. Its your birthday (yesterday) (even though it wasnt, it was changed to help convert pagans) but yeaa.

New here and thought I'd jump in. I have to say that I recommend that the religious posters be a little careful when they use the words of the founding fathers as evidence for the Christian nation myth.

I believe it was George Washington who said something like this, "American is in no way founded on a christian nation." The founding fathers had Deistic views which was common for those years after the enlightenment. As more people began to use their mind the bible became less the "WORD" so to speak. Instead a view of there being a great spirit who existed but did not interfere with man became more popular.

Now Jefferson was hardcore against religion at times. Read some of what he had to say. But yeah most if not all of the founding fathers were not die hard christians and some thought religion itself was dangerous. I'll end with this.

As B. Franklin once said

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."

Hope everyone had a nice X-mas, christmas, Yule, and Saturnalia

[edit on 26-12-2008 by George Patton]

[edit on 26-12-2008 by George Patton]

As for St. Nick. Also be carefull because the St. Nick used today is a combo of the Nick and a Norse god called ODIN.

I have always found it quite exciting how Christians want Christmas to have more god, as if it was always like that. Actually Christians must understand that they share the holiday, they do not own it. The winter solitice was and still is celebrated, and it's a pretty much known fact that Jesus probably wasn't born on the 25th. Thank the catholics for trying to steal a holiday in order to convert Pagans. Ironic how in the end, by trying to convert, they made their own version of christianity more pagan.

Odin works in mysterious ways.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by George Patton]

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by Jomina

First of all...if you have to say seriously all that much, your post is sub par....and the rest of it was too whiny to be taken 'seriously'....seriously.

THe church is doing much good for "your people" as you say...

I'd say if YOU put as much energy in bettering yourself, ie education, forgiveness, moving on, etc and less time whinning, you'd be happier!!!

Ahh I see what you did there

Quoting church propaganda to prove that the church is doing so much good for my people is absolutely classic. How about thoughts from the tribes themselves, unfltered through the church?

Here's one...

"Christianity has left an indelible print on the lives of Native Americans. Since the first contact between Europeans and Native Americans, the visitors sought to "civilize" those they mistakenly called Indians by telling them of God and Jesus. Later, in the nineteenth century, the U.S. government decided to assimilate the Native peoples by neatly dividing them into reservations and assigning the reservations to various Christian missionaries. This behavior was hardly understandable to the Indian peoples. Since none of their perhaps six hundred tribal traditions emphasized conversion and proselytization, it was unclear to them why the Christians wanted everyone to worship the same way they did. Some of the methods used were cruel: taking children away from their families to attend missionary boarding schools where they were punished for infractions such as speaking in their native language. To many, this time was a Holocaust that robbed them of their tribal tongues and traditions and replaced them with empty promises of a God of love who punished with a sharp whip."


See... I can do it too, OT. For every quote you can make saying what good Christianity has done for the native americans, I can give another that says otherwise.

That's the way it can go with anything, though, isn't it?


As t your opinions about my personal life, you know me not. I have spent years "bettering myself", especially in regards to spirituality. If to your closed mind I appaered to be whining, it only shows your lack of true understanding of history, and shows only your one sided mind.


How about a couple other quotes for you?

"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit.
If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about
it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?

~Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca~ "


"Trouble no one about their religion;

respect others in their view and demand that they respect yours.

~Chief Tecumseh~ "


Is that not the basics of what I said in my original post? It is not the differences in religious views that are the problem. It is when they are forced onto others that the issues begin. Do not tread upon another man's land and not expect to be accosted.


But your posts in this thread, just like all other posts I have seen from you, follow the same thoughts. You're right, all others are wrong, and there is nothing anyone can say about it.

You asked in the title of the thread, "What happened?" Read your posts over here with a VERY open mind, and see how you and other exceedingly religious people come across, and you'll see precicely why people have become turned off from it. They are sickened by it, and can see through it all.

Before the information age, it was quite a bit easier to keep that under wraps. But not anymore.

This posting, OT is put out by someone (yourself) who is uncomfortable with their own background somehow e.g. non-protestant non-english descent. I grew up as an evangelical christian who's parents only considered very selective groups Christian e.g. Catholics/Mormons were not considered Christians. That was a culture of non-inclusiveness and hate... just like you are spewing here with your fake goody-two shoes postings. Grow up... all religions are just superstitions that degenerate to virtual tribes, US against THEM kind of stuff. Your posting is pretty pathetic and I'm sure most people that know you can see through you. We have a guy here in Utah just like you... a congressman of German descent who says the same types of things. It's pathetic how he puts down afro-american children... all so he can feel like he's one of the white male majority. Except he's a fat bitter German Morman (not many German Mormons which is probably part of his inferiority complex). Anyway to you and him Get a life

reply to post by OldThinker


That heresy came from Jesus in your New Testament. Funny, it seems to me that Christians read their Bible less than anyone else. A man asking Jesus what he needed to do to inherit eternal life was told to sell everything and give the money to the poor so he could follow Jesus. Mark 10: 17-28

Give up everything you have. Luke 14:33

Do not lay your treasures up upon the Earth. Matthew 6:19

I don't see many Christians following this advice, not in the slightest!!!

Also, if you do some reading, you will find that the U.S. was founded mostly by Deists.

The Christian Nation Myth

Christian "values" were also a driving force for manifest destiny, which encouraged the settlers to overrun the country and dispose of the native population. It's alive and well, being used today by President Bush. Christianity was used to justify slavery. One of the arguments for slavery being that it brought Christianity to the heathen.

Please find me where Jesus condemns slavery. Maybe I overlooked it.

The Myth of Manifest Destiny, Take Two

Wiki

Bilblical Verses Used by Slave Owners to Justify Slavery

So, you're sorry we might be losing our Christian values that the country was founded on? Good riddance. How about we use the the values that are common to ALL peoples in organized societies? It only takes some reason and logic to figure out what they are and why it would be good to adhere to them. We won't even need the threat of burning in an eternal Hell if we use our brains.

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Most of the media being TV, Movies and Magazines attack or make fun of christianity in general... even our major players in science (scientists) do it too... why?
becouse negative forces have infiltrated our contry and put themselves in high positions of mass control or mass influence and as it continues to spread our country will get worse and worse... this negative energy influencing every single thing in our lives affects our surroundings and earth as a whole... thats why things in the past century has changed a lot becouse those forces have had more ways of influencing us in major ways...
or lets not say christianity but the believe in almighty God and his ancient teachings...
even thousands of years ago ancient civilizations had the believe inplemented in every form of leadership from the pharaons to the populations and there's too much proof of that in everysingle thing we find... and nowdays with this ideology of "freedom" we are led to believe that everything must be separate in our lives and that there's freedom for everybody and anybody to believe whatever they want... and that opens the field for those negative forces to bring their beliefs and influence us how they're doing it now... but with out really censoring anyone else's beliefs... all they do is mix their messages with funny comedy shows, famous movie franchises and every single mainstream form of entertainment to decieve the population from good energy extraction so they can execute their corporate plans accordingly without us questioning.

(pd- this is my first post here in ATS I will create an account soon... I've been reading this website for a couple of months... Im generaly well informed in this occult movement that's been going on for centuries...
laterzz...

Originally posted by davion
reply to post by GeeGee

 

I'd take that whole "Bush said atheists aren't citizens/patriotic" with a grain of salt, because there are no audio recordings of that interview or anything on video; it seemed to only come from one source and I don't think the source was very reputable.

Actually it was Bush senior that said this. It was said in an interview apparently.

When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice-president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates, had the following exchange with then-Vice-President Bush.

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

"American was a Christian Nation-What happened?"

exactly!... which is why it's going right in the toilet in a hurry.

all the standards from the old days are gone and the family values are going out the window to and as you can see the country's standards are drastically lower than they used to be.

reply to post by GeeGee


Yes I know, but Sherman is the only one that ever printed it. There's no other documentation or source that can point to that interview or has ever come forward and said they were there when those questions were asked.

Sherman said something like it was a private press conference with other people from the press and "he was the only one that decided to come forward with what Bush senior said" so it's kinda suspicious.

In that same vein I believe Bush senior has been approached about that interview fake or not and has never denied it. So it could be either or.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by davion]