American was a Christian Nation-What happened?

Originally posted by Hank Scorpio
America was founded by Atheists...

??????

Well that's a stretch...can you elaborate?

OT

Prior to Christianity reaching the Americas, Native American tribes had their own belief systems, and forms of governments. Some such as the Iroquois Nations used concepts that we labeled as Democratic and did influence our Articles of Confederation and the United States Constitution. To say that the United States is founded upon Christian morals is to grossly undermine this fact.
A few posters have said that the United States standards of family are eroding, or that time held traditions are being forgotten. Other say that Christianity is in decline, it is not, simply put by the graphs that some of you have posted already, one can clearly deduce this fact. However I do see a growing number of people seeking higher education and seeking knowledge. The more you read the more you learn, the more you question the more solutions present themselves. Change is good, or bad...but change is unavoidable.
I for one was forced to go to sunday school, do my conformation and confess my sins to a Priest. I hated being for feed a doctrine that I personally did not believe in. I've had friends from many cultures, have studied abroad and lived in different countries. One thing is for certain, Christianity seeks to be the center of attention, why? Why is this way the only way? Why force a religion upon someone? As history shows, Christianity has been an aggressive force, and many times, at the highest levels of quote on quote "Hierarchy" you find worse crimes being committed than those of common people.
Today you're free to read and educate yourself, and most importantly you may believe what you want. This is the United States I look forward to, look to the future not the past, learn from mistakes and seek knowledge, and use common sense and logic. The United States is founded on those Principals, and you know what, that cliche quote I learned in 5th grade is true, "Knowledge is Power" it is.

My 2 cents

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The United States is founded on those Principals, and you know what, that cliche quote I learned in 5th grade is true, "Knowledge is Power" it is.

My 2 cents

5TH GRADE + 2 Cents = a wise anon poster!!! Good job young man!

OT

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

I for one was forced to go to sunday school, do my conformation and confess my sins to a Priest. I hated being for feed a doctrine that I personally did not believe in.

I'm sorry for your (elementary) experience within the supposed church!


'Forcing' is not of God...He's about choice and freewill...pls look it up!

'Confirmation' is not of man...that's God's business...pls look it up!

"fed a doctrine" huh? SAD! there is more to the LORD Jesus/faith than what you experienced....do you have the strength to look for it/him?

OT

First of all, there is no argument; those who created this country were NOT Christians. Some were involved in Gnostic Christian idealogies and many were Druid or had Druidesque beliefs. The Christ and just about everything else in Christianity was not invented by or within said religion and is not exclusive to it either. Most of the founding fathers spoke against Christianity and, more primarily, organized religion. Our reality is not controlled by an invisible man in the sky making things happen, and another invisible man (or whatever you wish to call him/it) trying to stop him and his followers. This is the elementary belief that has continued to hold this country and the world back from prosperity since it first began spreading itself through murder, torture, kidnap, rape, terrorism, etc. Also, America only became a "Christian Nation" when President Carter decided to flaunt his religion about. Before then, nobody even paid that much attention as to the religion of political candidates. You should try researching the subjects you are interested in through the means of non-biased sources that do not have hidden agendas.

[edit on 8-1-2009 by Hohuwah]

Originally posted by Hohuwah
First of all, there is no argument; those who created this country were NOT Christians. Some were involved in Gnostic Christian idealogies and many were Druid or had Druidesque beliefs. The Christ and just about everything else in Christianity was not invented by or within said religion and is not exclusive to it either. Most of the founding fathers spoke against Christianity and, more primarily, organized religion. ....[edit on 8-1-2009 by Hohuwah]

Your post screams AGENDA! You said above

Well John Jay was the first Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and was concurrently president of the American Bible Society…pretty strange fellow to be the head of the Bible Society, if he didn’t believe??

Or…

John Adams
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." Sounds like he hates God, huh?

Or…

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

Or…oh well I can go on and on and on…



[edit on 8-1-2009 by OldThinker]

reply to post by Hohuwah

aahh heck...I guess I will...

Well. Here’s some more folks…

Samuel Adams
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution
"And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth, and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace."
--As Governor of Massachusetts, Proclamation of a Day of Fast, March 20, 1797.

James Madison
4th U.S. President
"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."
--America's Providential History, p. 93.

James Monroe
5th U.S. President
"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgements for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."
--Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.

John Quincy Adams
6th U.S. President
"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth. Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)."
--Life of John Quincy Adams, p. 248.

William Penn
Founder of Pennsylvania
"I do declare to the whole world that we believe the Scriptures to contain a declaration of the mind and will of God in and to those ages in which they were written; being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the hearts of holy men of God; that they ought also to be read, believed, and fulfilled in our day; being used for reproof and instruction, that the man of God may be perfect. They are a declaration and testimony of heavenly things themselves, and, as such, we carry a high respect for them. We accept them as the words of God Himself."
--Treatise of the Religion of the Quakers, p. 355.

Roger Sherman
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and United States Constitution
"I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God, and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him. That God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass, so as thereby he is not the author or approver of sin. That he creates all things, and preserves and governs all creatures and all their actions, in a manner perfectly consistent with the freedom of will in moral agents, and the usefulness of means. That he made man at first perfectly holy, that the first man sinned, and as he was the public head of his posterity, they all became sinners in consequence of his first transgression, are wholly indisposed to that which is good and inclined to evil, and on account of sin are liable to all the miseries of this life, to death, and to the pains of hell forever.

I believe that God having elected some of mankind to eternal life, did send his own Son to become man, die in the room and stead of sinners and thus to lay a foundation for the offer of pardon and salvation to all mankind, so as all may be saved who are willing to accept the gospel offer: also by his special grace and spirit, to regenerate, sanctify and enable to persevere in holiness, all who shall be saved; and to procure in consequence of their repentance and faith in himself their justification by virtue of his atonement as the only meritorious cause.

I believe a visible church to be a congregation of those who make a credible profession of their faith in Christ, and obedience to him, joined by the bond of the covenant.

I believe that the souls of believers are at their death made perfectly holy, and immediately taken to glory: that at the end of this world there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a final judgement of all mankind, when the righteous shall be publicly acquitted by Christ the Judge and admitted to everlasting life and glory, and the wicked be sentenced to everlasting punishment."
--The Life of Roger Sherman, pp. 272-273.

Originally posted by Hohuwah
First of all, there is no argument

That's the best point you made!

More OT?

Yep!

= = = =

Benjamin Rush
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"The Gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations!"
--The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, pp. 165-166.

"Christianity is the only true and perfect religion, and that in proportion as mankind adopts its principles and obeys its precepts, they will be wise and happy."
--Essays, Literary, Moral, and Philosophical, published in 1798.

"I know there is an objection among many people to teaching children doctrines of any kind, because they are liable to be controverted. But let us not be wiser than our Maker.

If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into all the world would have been unnecessary. The perfect morality of the Gospel rests upon the doctrine which, though often controverted has never been refuted: I mean the vicarious life and death of the Son of God."
--Essays, Literary, Moral, and Philosophical, published in 1798.

John Witherspoon
Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Clergyman and President of Princeton University
"While we give praise to God, the Supreme Disposer of all events, for His interposition on our behalf, let us guard against the dangerous error of trusting in, or boasting of, an arm of flesh ... If your cause is just, if your principles are pure, and if your conduct is prudent, you need not fear the multitude of opposing hosts.

What follows from this? That he is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who sets himself with the greatest firmness to bear down profanity and immorality of every kind.

Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy of his country."
--Sermon at Princeton University, "The Dominion of Providence over the Passions of Men," May 17, 1776.

Alexander Hamilton
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
--Famous American Statesmen, p. 126.

Patrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
--The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.
"The Bible ... is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed."
--Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry, p. 402.

John Jay
1st Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and President of the American Bible Society
"By conveying the Bible to people thus circumstanced, we certainly do them a most interesting kindness. We thereby enable them to learn that man was originally created and placed in a state of happiness, but, becoming disobedient, was subjected to the degradation and evils which he and his posterity have since experienced.

The Bible will also inform them that our gracious Creator has provided for us a Redeemer, in whom all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; that this Redeemer has made atonement "for the sins of the whole world," and thereby reconciling the Divine justice with the Divine mercy has opened a way for our redemption and salvation; and that these inestimable benefits are of the free gift and grace of God, not of our deserving, nor in our power to deserve."
--In God We Trust—The Religious Beliefs and Ideas of the American Founding Fathers, p. 379.

"In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed by the Bible."
--American Statesman Series, p. 360.

From where I stand, the United States were founded on the mass genocide of
the indiginous people of america, on slavery, on broken treaties, on betrayal,
treachery and oppression of minorities of all kinds. It has lived up to those
fine standards until this very day, ever since it was founded.

I don't see any christian values reflected in the actions of american
governments at any time in history.

[edit on (8/1/09) by Wehali]

Originally posted by Wehali
From where I stand, the United States were founded on the mass genocide of
the indiginous people of america, on slavery, broken treaties, betrayal,
treachery and oppression of minorities of all kinds. It has lived up to those
fine standards until this very day, ever since it was founded.

I don't see any christian values reflected in the actions of american
governments at any time in history.

Thanks for your thoughts....


Paragraph 1-Sad, but true...at many 'times'

Paragraph 2-Lazy statement, you should look closer!

OT

We started down this slippery slope when we went from thee to me. We followed the path of Sodom and Gomorrah and worship the God of: If it feels good, Do it”. I don’t think the presence of people from other religions being in America has anything to do with it. If we can send missionaries all around to globe to convert those residents to Christianity surely we would have the power to convert those in our very mist. That is if we lived and acted like Christians but you can’t sell a seeing man a sheep for a goat.

Originally posted by Wehali
I don't see any christian values reflected in the actions of american
governments at any time in history.

Hmm? Please? Here’s American Charities 'A through F'

Link here for G-Z… www.charities.org...

A Gift For Teaching

AIDS & Infectious Disease Science Center, Inc.

AIDS Alliance for Children, Youth & Families

AIDS FUND

AIDS Resource Alliance

Alzheimer's and Aging Research Center

America's Charities

American Campaign for Prevention of Child Abuse and Family Violence

American Center for Law and Justice

American Civil Liberties Union Foundation

American Foundation for the Blind

Amnesty International USA

Angels' Place, Inc.

The Arc of the United States

Arthritis & Chronic Pain Research Institute

Arts League of Michigan

Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America-Michigan Chapter

Atlanta Habitat for Humanity

Austin Children's Shelter

Black Women's Health Imperative

Boy Scouts of America, Los Angeles Area Council

Braille Institute of America

Brain Injury Association of New Jersey

Breast Cancer Coalition

Breast Cancer Resource Centers of Texas

Breathe California of Los Angeles County

Camp Boggy Creek

Cancer Research for Children (National Childhood Cancer Foundation)

Canine Partners For Life

Caring for Children Foundation of Texas, Inc.

Catholics United for Life

Central Florida Zoological Society

Child Aid: Children's Literacy and Hearing Projects

Children's Dream Fund

The Children's Health Fund

Children's HeartLink

The Children's Home

Children's Rights

Christian Appalachian Project

Christian HELP Foundation

Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation

Coleman A. Young Foundation

Community Vision

Connecticut Food Bank

Consumers Union of United States, Inc.

Coptic Orphans Support Association

Daytop Village of New Jersey, Inc.

Detroit Catholic Pastoral Alliance

Diabetes Research and Wellness Foundation

Diabetes Research Institute Foundation, Inc.

Dress for Success - Hudson County

Dress for Success Worldwide

Dystrophic Epidermolysis Bullosa Research Association of America

Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund

Equality Advocates Pennsylvania

Family Resources, Inc.

Family Support Line

Father Flanagan's Boys' Home

Feed The Children

Feeding America

Forgotten Harvest

Foundation for Orange County Public Schools

The Foundation for Osceola Education

The Foundation for Seminole County Public Schools

Freedom Guide Dogs for the Blind

Freedom House (Detroit)

Freedom Ride

Frontline Outreach

The Fund for Animals

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4Dawn
We started down this slippery slope when we went from thee to me.

Great point...you are echoing the Apostle Paul who said...and we should live... "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves!” Philippians 2:3

Originally posted by NightSkyeB4DawnIf we can send missionaries all around to globe to convert those residents to Christianity surely we would have the power to convert those in our very mist.

Perceptive question here man...


Maybe if WE followed mysignature huh?

OT

Originally posted by Wehali
I don't see any christian values reflected in the actions of american
governments at any time in history.

[edit on (8/1/09) by Wehali]

Hey bud...how bout education?????

Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments. James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United States, said this: '"We have staked the whole future of our new nation not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

Originally posted by OldThinker

Originally posted by Wehali
I don't see any christian values reflected in the actions of american
governments at any time in history.

[edit on (8/1/09) by Wehali]

Hey bud...how bout education?????

Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments. James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United States, said this: '"We have staked the whole future of our new nation not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

OT that was COLLEGE, what about High school?

"Good question!" William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was used for over 100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation."

Listen to these words of Mr. McGuffey: "The Christian religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our notions on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible I make no apology."

Source: www.inspire21.com...

Originally posted by Wehali

I don't see any christian values reflected in the actions of american
governments at any time in history.

[edit on (8/1/09) by Wehali]

OT grants mistakes were made, but have you ever seen the things I quote for you?

Thx...

OT This is what I believe the real NWO is. It is not a select group of elite that our pulling strings behind the scenes. it is just the order of the masses moving away from God. and with such the fall of mankind with the first prejudice Atheist decided he\she didn't feel like looking at a symbol of Christianity or saying in God we trust at grammar school.

Now to all the Atheist I am not attacking you. You have the right to not believe the way I believe. But the readjust you feel with these symbols is what we believers feel while you are attacking our symbols.

Once again I don't have a problem with Atheist just want to be sure everyone understands that. I think we just need to all agree that people should follow what they think is right and leave it be.

Back to the OP America shouldn't forget the good values it was based on. The freedom to believe how you wish to believe with tolerance.

My opinion only.

Originally posted by Ant4AU
OT This is what I believe the real NWO is. It is not a select group of elite that our pulling strings behind the scenes. it is just the order of the masses moving away from God. and with such the fall of mankind with the first prejudice Atheist decided he\she didn't feel like looking at a symbol of Christianity or saying in God we trust at grammar school.

Now to all the Atheist I am not attacking you. You have the right to not believe the way I believe. But the readjust you feel with these symbols is what we believers feel while you are attacking our symbols.

Once again I don't have a problem with Atheist just want to be sure everyone understands that. I think we just need to all agree that people should follow what they think is right and leave it be.

Back to the OP America shouldn't forget the good values it was based on. The freedom to believe how you wish to believe with tolerance.

My opinion only.

Hey man, just saw this thanks for the post...good points!

OT

OT give it up, man.
"God" DOES NOT EXIST....Christianity and almost all other mainstream religions were CREATED to control and manipulate the masses. Goodwill, happiness, and love should not be attributed to something supernatural in the sky. It is just that...goodwill, happiness, and love...based on the actions and experiences we see throughout our lives....
Hence, EVEN IF the U.S.A. was started with "Christian Origins" or whatever....then it was only to manipulate the masses.
In regards to "God"...I can see someone arguing Quantum Physics and String Theory as a greater force that holds our universe together...we just haven't discovered those realms yet.
End of story..there is no argument here.