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Originally posted by Artificial_Eyebrows
heaven and hell take away true morality because true morality is shown when there is absolutely no consequence but you do the right thing anyway (like sacrifice your life to save others)
in my opinion, heaven and hell take away true morality because true morality is shown when there is absolutely no consequence but you do the right thing anyway (like sacrifice your life to save others)
Originally posted by PreTribGuy
Something like this?
1 Cor 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
If you are presenting an idea that the "most" (best) heroic acts are performed by those who have no worries/concerns about a consequence (Heaven or Hell...or pleasure or pain)... then you seem to tacitly imply that every infant is the "least heroic".
I've never had or held an infant that didn't demand that I satisfy EVERY SINGLE ONE of their needs...IMMEDIATELY! Furthermore, these infants don't care AT ALL about MY pleasure or pain...they only care about their OWN pleasure or pain! Infants are some of the most SELFISH human beings upon the entire EARTH!
...yet nobody seems to hate infants.
If "morality" is to be defined by the "selfLESS" acts we do, then infants are quite immoral.
Lawrence Kohlberg's six stages of moral development:
Level 1 (Pre-Conventional)
1. Obedience and punishment orientation
(How can I avoid punishment?)
2. Self-interest orientation
(What's in it for me?)
Level 2 (Conventional)
3. Interpersonal accord and conformity
(Social norms)
(The good boy/good girl attitude)
4. Authority and social-order maintaining orientation
(Law and order morality)
Level 3 (Post-Conventional)
5. Social contract orientation
6. Universal ethical principles
(Principled conscience)
This is because the heroic act would have been in anticipation of either a reward from Heaven or punishment from Hell. If religions like Islam and Christianity are true, then every noble and moral act would be because of anticipation of salvation or damnation. From this point of view, can morality truly exist then?
..... and in case u were wondering.. Pat Tillman did not profess faith in any religion, he is truly a modern day hero...
While the person in 1Corinthians (Paul i think) says that they will not profit from any charity they do, they also know full well that they will be rewarded after death... which is exactly the point I was trying to make. Paul is going to go to heaven after he dies, and he knows that because Jesus told him that moral actions would lead to a spot in the heavenly kingdom. So it doesn't matter that Paul says "it profiteth me nothing" because he knows full well that it WILL profit him. If you don't agree then you're basically saying Paul didn't get into heaven.
While the person in 1Corinthians (Paul i think)
says that they will not profit from any charity they do,
they also know full well that they will be rewarded after death... which is exactly the point I was trying to make.
Paul is going to go to heaven after he dies, and he knows that because Jesus told him that moral actions would lead to a spot in the heavenly kingdom.
So it doesn't matter that Paul says "it profiteth me nothing" because he knows full well that it WILL profit him.
If you don't agree then you're basically saying Paul didn't get into heaven.
6. Universal ethical principles
(Principled conscience)
The thing about children is true but it's because they haven't receieved alot of graces yet, which is why they are cruel.
graces are love God puts in the soul throughout the years provided we do work for it.