Raiding the Vatican

Alright, I don't know where this lands, forum wise, and I don't know if this is going to make some catholics mad, but I seriously think the vatican needs to be raided in one form or another. Okay, follow me now, we all know that the vatican has alot of secrets that they're keeping away from the world population, they've been doing for almost 1500 years, so why don't the masses raid the vatican, recover some texts and that's that, no killing, no looting, just a plain covert op mission with objectives specifically involving texts. It sounds simple enough, but how would one go about doing so? I'd say, alot of tranquilizers, a couple pounds of c4, and maybe a system that releases sleeping gas for a couple miles. But I'm sure there's more logical ways of going about it. Thoughts anyone?

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by IKnowNothing]

It's sad, yes, that the Vatican has tons of history in their archives that havent been revealed. But this is a foolish idea...

Many have tried. The Vatican is a tough nut to crack. After all, they've managed to keep the stuff secret for, as you said, 1500 years. They got security up the wazoo, and the Italian police would probably have a couple of officers outside the sleeping gas bomb...

Besides, haven't you seen Hudson Hawk? Maaad security!

I think the Vatican is probably even more secure than the White House is. Nobody is getting in there without getting themselves killed.

Sure it's a foolish idea, I don't have anything catholics, I just want to know the truth. And by constantly hiding the truth from the world, don't you think they're working against the world rather than trying to help it? What secrets do they have? I believe several people have suggested that they might quite possibly have information that might go against everything they're teaching and believing, but don't you think that the world should know about these things? It's not giving people a choice to believe, it's telling them what to believe, and by that they're doing the world a disservice by hiding the truth, I can say that about many religions. It just seems like plain and simple greed, not on a physical plane, but rather a spiritual one.

if we were to ever get a hold of all those secret archives, we might find the proof that we need to make the Church and Vatican obsolete. That is why it cannot be.

I must agree with the consensus here. I am a Catholic and I see no need to raid the Vatican. What could they possiably be holding that's harmfull? So you go and break in and relese a buch of stuff and what have you accomplished? You may have just turned Christanity on it's head. You have people that are killing themselves because everything that they have belived in all of their live has just been shot down. I think that things are ok right now the way they are. Let the Vatican be. Just my $0.02 worth. -Muzz

I think we should take their superficial worldly riches (shame on the Church) and distribute them to the poor and starving, instead of being used to increase the self-importance of men who have the arrogence to think they speak for God.

yep i understand where you are going, the vatican is supposed to have a massive underground archive, hiding many secrets.

Originally posted by muzz
What could they possiably be holding that's harmfull?

Don't be so naive - the most important thing of all could be harmed, your faith.

The underground archives are the pope's "journals". catholic "law"-for lack of a better term- says that they can only be opened one volume at a time, and only in chronological order, at the current pope's order.

they don't really contain- from what i've read so far, at least- many outrageous things, more of the pope's day to day events- most recently, they opened the records from 1922-1936, or somewhere around those years, to get the then pope's views on the war- very controversial, yet it was released, although i'm sure there are some crazy things down there that would blow us all away if we read them.

I think this a topic can also lead to the issue of acceptance. It seems to me, that people refuse to question, they just accept and hope that everything works out for the best. The problem with this mode of thought is that so much bad can come from it. Those that refuse to accept and continue to question have always been the minority. Throughout history, the minority has been seen as the so called, "evil provokers." Sure there are many holes to my argument, and I can be the first to admit that wholeheartidly, I was trying to come up with an example of how secrets will have bigger consequences the longer they are hidden, but I can't seem to put my thoughts into words. Well here's another example I suppose. If MLK never fought for the civil rights of non-whites, how severe woul racism and segregation be in present day america? He was one that refused to accept. Same goes for Nazi Germany, what if other countries never allowed for Hitler to being to conquer other countries? would have WWII have been less severe? What I'm trying to get at is, the longer the Vatican, or any other place continues to hold the truth from it's followers or members of society, the dire the consequences become. People should be given a change to become spiritually fulfilled and not be force fed lies. I'm sorry, I'm unable to put my thoughts together completely right now. I'll try to come back later and clear some things up. By the way, thanks to everyone replying, I really enjoy all your comments and opinions, I'm sorry if I offended anymore, it is was my intention to offend.

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by IKnowNothing]

I'm not trying to be harsh or make anyone mad but this is where you have to weigh the pro's against the con's. The Pro's are that you get to know everything that the Vatican might be hiding. The Con's are that you may just destroy many people's lives. The way I see it is God cant' fault you for things that you don't know. If something there says that it's a sin to eat Chocolate, what do all of these people do that have been eating it all of their lives? I think that it would cause world wide turmoil. Anyway, doesn't the Vatican have an exclusive library that only invited persons can go to?

Originally posted by IKnowNothing
but I seriously think the vatican needs to be raided so why don't the masses raid the vatican, recover some texts and that's that, no killing, no looting, just a plain covert op mission with objectives specifically involving texts. But I'm sure there's more logical ways of going about it. Thoughts anyone?

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by IKnowNothing]

I don't think that there is no need to raid the Vatican. I wouldn't want somebody to raid my living quarters and expose all my 'secrets'.

What need is there to raid and try to attempt to expose the Vatican's secrets? Will all those devout church-goers actually have their faith wane just because they say Jesus was married? Maybe their faith will wane, but I think it is better to just educate the masses about the different types of control being used to placate the masses to certain individuals' own egoistic agendas.

Violating the Vatican house should only be done if under the law, much the way people's houses are raided if they violate the law.

Maybe it is better to just understand that religion can be used to control and try to express to others that will listen and work from there.

The Vatican does have secret and ancient text spanning thousands of years. They probably contain text that will make a Christian question is very own faith.

I've also heard there's a room in the Vatican where the Pope goes and talks to Satan.

Originally posted by muzz
I must agree with the consensus here. I am a Catholic and I see no need to raid the Vatican. What could they possiably be holding that's harmfull? So you go and break in and relese a buch of stuff and what have you accomplished? You may have just turned Christanity on it's head. You have people that are killing themselves because everything that they have belived in all of their live has just been shot down. I think that things are ok right now the way they are. Let the Vatican be. Just my $0.02 worth. -Muzz

So, you're saying it's better to decieve people than tell the truth? Come on! **If** the Vatican holds secrets which would destroy the Church, then the whole organisation and religion is built on a false premise, lies, deception etc.
We all know what the Catholic church has been guilty of throughout history. We also know that the ridiculous amount of wealth held in the Vatican would feed millions of starving people around the world. I find the whole thing distasteful and would never associate myself with such.
Yes, I have very strong views on this and do apologise for upsetting anyone who has a strong faith, but it has to be said that the Catholic church has a lot to answer for.
Cheers,
Grey Pilgrim

Originally posted by Grey_Pilgrim

So, you're saying it's better to decieve people than tell the truth? Come on! **If** the Vatican holds secrets which would destroy the Church, then the whole organisation and religion is built on a false premise, lies, deception etc.
We all know what the Catholic church has been guilty of throughout history. We also know that the ridiculous amount of wealth held in the Vatican would feed millions of starving people around the world. I find the whole thing distasteful and would never associate myself with such.
Yes, I have very strong views on this and do apologise for upsetting anyone who has a strong faith, but it has to be said that the Catholic church has a lot to answer for.
Cheers,
Grey Pilgrim

I'm not saying that it's ok to decive people, but I am saying that it's not right to pull the foundation of millions of individual's lives right out from under them. Just think of the chaos that could ensue from that. so after you break all of this devistating news to millions of devote Christans, what do they do now? The structure that they have lived their live by has just been destroyed and they are wondering around lost spirtualy. Even if the thing that they live by now ARE lies, thats all that we know, thats the best info we got. I really think that raiding the Vatican just to expose the church would have devestating effect on the world. Does any here agree with me??

So how do you paranoid people "know" that they are hiding all those horrible secrets you are screaming about.
Secret that would shake faith eh? BS I say! If documents are secret for 1500 years then you surely wouldn't know anything about their nature.
With any luck, after reading those awful secret files you'd become catholic.

Also, what "incredible wealth" are you talking about? Vatican gold, art? They were all donated to it throughout the history, and it cannot be simply sold and there would be no point.

Vatican gets about 150$ million per year. All through taxes from churches around the world and something from visitors from museums, galleries etc. in Vatican.
I know they send some money for support to poor churches, like in Africa, they donate some money on other things too.
BTW, they even had $3 deficit 2 years ago I think.
All their wealth that can be selled is evalued at about $650 million, but that cannot be sold easily and it is precious art which is better in hands of Vatican than anybody else.


[Edited on 7-4-2004 by Megaquad]

Megaquad, you make some ver good points. I think that things are just fine right now.

Originally posted by muzz
I'm not saying that it's ok to decive people, but I am saying that it's not right to pull the foundation of millions of individual's lives right out from under them. Just think of the chaos that could ensue from that. so after you break all of this devistating news to millions of devote Christans, what do they do now? The structure that they have lived their live by has just been destroyed and they are wondering around lost spirtualy. Even if the thing that they live by now ARE lies, thats all that we know, thats the best info we got. I really think that raiding the Vatican just to expose the church would have devestating effect on the world. Does any here agree with me??

I *didn't* suggest that any of these supposed secrets should be divulged and would never do so. Read my post again please as you missed my point.
I think (again using the word "if") if secrets which would destroy faith are there, then perhaps they should remain secret. I'm not an Xtian basher and have respect for anyone who is fortunate enough to have a strong faith, no matter what that may be. [EDIT]What I have NO respect for is the organisation. I'm seperating the leaders from the followers here.[/EDIT] I just have different view is all.
Cheers,
Grey Pilgrim

[Edited on 7/4/04 by Grey_Pilgrim]