A question to those not born in the USA... how can we redeem ourselves?

I know that our Government has had greater standing with foreign Governments in the past. I think personally if Obama keeps most of his promises he will be a great President and more people will respect us.

George W Bush nearly ruined our standing in the world and managed to ruin the world's economy.

I ask you-- how might we improve our relations with the rest of the world? We don't want Russia taking our spot with the most relations with the rest of the world. We want to stay at that top spot.

This mess we're in isn't an unintended consequence of our policies... it's the fault and the idiocy of the Bush administration for not taking into account how arrogant we looked when we went to the Iraq war and gloated that we'll win right away.

So, what can we do, I ask you foreigners, to redeem ourselves?

In other words, if we kiss your butt til our breath smells like poop will you like us? Huh, pretty please huh?

reply to post by Blueracer


Nah. We aren't like the old people who were in power over the last 8 years. We don't want people to kiss their asses to us. We are mad over what has happened over the last 8 years and we want to regain our standing in the world... without having to force our views on others or force others to do our will. I think that we can really lead by example during the next 8 years and we won't necessarily have to go to war with other nations just to get our economy going again. Just in what way could we lead by example so that we could inspire people? In the last 8 years we had a stupid leader who lead and made other people think we're idiots. Now we have an intelligent leader who actually has the opportunity to inspire people.

there is a thread just gone up on a local board here entitled, "USA housing Crisis and the decline of an Empire".

in short the author outlines your current economic crisis; thinks riots will eventuate and the people will call for martial law to protect them.

another poster notes that the bank execs will be fine due to all their millions in bonus's. others wonder who will lead the world now - china? russia? and one particularly pessimistic fellow thinks america will come out of this as a third world country.

it's a very short thread as it's christmas day here but i just thought i'd give you a small glimpse of what some people here (in New Zealand) are saying.

as to your question OP - i suppose what we all really think should be a secondary concern to getting things back on track for yourselves as it's sounding so bad. :-)

We can pull ourselves out of this crisis... all conspiracy theories aside, PLAN B will work!

Time for..... Plan B!

OK, This is the course of action we are currently taking:

Let's assume that they will do what they have said and that is "7.4 to 7.78 trillion will be printed / created for the bailout and or credit revival and given to banks" the banks who currently refuse to loan money and extend lines of credit to business.

digg.com...

kenthink7.blogspot.com...

((Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government is prepared to provide more than $7.76 trillion on behalf of American taxpayers after guaranteeing $306 billion of Citigroup Inc. debt yesterday. The pledges, amounting to half the value of everything produced in the nation last year, are intended to rescue the financial system after the credit markets seized up 15 months ago))

Then businesses go "out of business" or if they are big enough they go to the government for money because the banks are terminating lines of credit and no longer loan money though they are getting trillions at 0% to 0.25% from the Fed.

Now we want even MORE money printed / created (estimated to be over another trillion) for a stimulus package for consumers because we need consumer spending to revive the economy.

Barack Obama reveals stimulus package that could exceed $1 trillion

www.timesonline.co.uk...

So in essence, we are trying tickle down economics and it isn't working because the banks are keeping the money, investing it overseas, using it to buy out each other and giving themselves massive bonus & payouts. Well everyone, guess what... it isn't working.

PLAN B

My plan is for mortgage holders / consumers to borrow mortgage money from the Fed directly at 0.5 % which is double the amount of interest the banks are being charged but a fraction of the interest that we are currently being charged by the banks.

By taking the 0.5% Mortgage "Recapitalization" from the Fed directly, we pay off our mortgages in full to the banks and the banks now have the capital of millions of "paid in full" mortgages and cannot complain about mortgage write-offs and defaults (if you haven't looked, go to a mortgage calculator and put in 6% or whatever your mortgage rate is... now try it with 0.5%).

At 0.5 % our monthly mortgage payments are half or less of what they were. (STIMULUS PACKAGE DONE) Now the Fed gets twice the interest that they were getting back from the banks at a 0.25%. "win/win"

Now, The banks get these Mortgage pay offs from millions of mortgages and have all the money they claim they need to alleviate their shortage.

This is not a refinance and does not require surveys and assessments, this is strictly a "mortgage recapitalization" with a hard $200.00 "origination fee".

$50 goes to a bank who is providing the paperwork / processing.
$100 goes to your city / municipality / county
$50 goes to State you live in.
(This helps local / state governments that are in a pinch)


So another 1 or 2 Trillion on another stimulus won't be needed because we are getting a stimulus every month by halving our own mortgages.

Now - Throw in REGULATION to prevent this from happening again and going forward, the banks can pick up mortgage origination again.

Win / Win / Win .... this isn't "trickle up, it is stream up"

OK, Put current plan against "Plan B" side by side. We print less money and get the stimulus needed with Plan B. It is the common sense solution of our "current" problem. Yes, our fiat & debt system is another matter entirely but for our current situation, this buys us a few years.

I daresay that we could do this with student loans & current car loans as well but allot of people seem to be against that.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by infolurker]

reply to post by ll__raine__ll


Okay, let's pretend the bailout is over. We manage to get out of Iraq. What can we do then to improve our standing your eyes?

Improve standing?

Nothing.. those that hate us hate us. We can't donate enough food, bleed, or do anything right in the eyes of most of the world... if we do, they hate us, if we don't they hate us for letting it happen (insert whatever crisis for it).

I think booting the UN out, honoring our current military commitments with Air & Naval power and bringing back our troops to our hemisphere to take care of our own problems would be the right thing to do. Let the rest of the world do or die as it may. We have our own troubles which are to great to ignore.

you must hang bush and cheney for a start,you must tell the world your government was criminal,then you have to go after those who are behind all that your criminal government has done,you must lead the way,the world knows its your government but sitting there letting them get away with it,your lack of action imply s guilt
action against your criminal government is the only way to redeem yourselves

reply to post by Frankidealist35


lol, it's a bit presumptuous for me to even answer but i'll try ...

first off though - i don't hate america or americans; it seems like some bad apples have tainted your cart and this has hurt the average joe as much as anyone. something has gone badly wrong over there (to state the obvious) and it's just mind boggling how bad things are.

my number one issue with america is how "third worldish" your country already is. while you are leaders on the world stage with fingers in lots of pies ... so many of your own people are suffering and living in abject poverty. this makes no sense to me. it seems like all your money is flowing in the wrong direction and into the wrong pockets. so to answer your question i guess i'd like to see you guys get your priorities right and look after your own people better. a lot of people in other countries do look to america for guidance etc but it's kind of hard to have much faith in you guys at the moment.

frankidealist
how would you answer your own question?

You're operating under the mindset of an Internationalist.

If you feel sorry for the bombed out Iraqis, then the answer is self-evident -rebuild the Iraqis. As far as the other countries who just want to smear the United States but have not suffered any personal grievance by it, then you're trying to kowtow to people who simply have Anti-American views.

Good, bad, or indifferent many people like to blame their problems on the US, without owing up to the notion that they have a weak government and were cowed along, instead of engaging in popular revolt, or are too weak themselves to come up with indigenous solutions. Ultimately, these nations make a choice to feed at the American trough. They may have buyers remorse about making the deal with things like the IMF, but they made the deal. The Marines didn't land to force them to accept anything; they could have said no and come up with indigenous solutions. Despite the thoughts of others, the US isn't the world welfare agency.

Furthermore, there are some who would be more than happy to see the US collapse and find mirth in the suffering and hardship of her people. Do not try to appease or approach these people -they do not have your best interest in mind.

Stop worrying about what other countries think of you. Instead worry about your own affairs -find solutions to increase productivity, generate jobs, and cut taxes. Fan the flames of liberty, and the rest of the world will come round.

Thats the problem with this country.

Trying to appease to the rest of the world? Why dont we, as americans, do something to help each other rather than expect handouts or a helping hand from another country.

The government has conditioned you to look to them for help, when the help is your next door neighbor, or family.

I personally dont care if the rest of the world hates us, they hate us because they envy us.

Originally posted by Cio88

I personally dont care if the rest of the world hates us, they hate us because they envy us.

rightttttttttt...

things that annoy me about America/n's

-BAD decision making
-population seems isolated from the outside world... it appears that the majority of Americans don't understand or even know of world issues
-geographically ignorant
-over patriotic
-paranoid
-overweight
-unsustainable
-too corporate
-American MSM just seems so 'feel good' BS... grr i hate it (the onion is a great parody )
-i guess just general arrogance.. superiority
-whingers (i occasionally see American holiday makers... is all i hear is them complaining)

these are just my little observations...

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Are you a 100% Bush Apologist?


I mean...

wow...


Why do you have this URGE to try to sooth people of the decisions of one of the worst presidents of all time...


Bush was a stooge... and he made good money for his buddies...



And besides, EVEN IF you get the entire world to say, i Forgive you, we have a NEW Commander in Thief to run the Family... er.. country... we are going to have a WHOLE NEW HOST of wonderful actions, that WE the AMERICAN people, have to take the bullet for...



Let him hang in the gallows...
or...


How about this...

WE just hand-cuff every politican to a the white house fence, and then they just get BARRAGED with question...

My first one would be,
"Mr President, you displayed increadible agility in your World-Famous Shoe Dodge, did you perhaps devlope this skill from practice with Mrs. Bush...?"

"Hehe.. it was more of my duaghters, they are spoiled Texas little brats..."

*symbol shot*



... what are you going to do about them...


Honestly, do not let them effect your life to much...
Thats all...

I think this goes far beyond the governmental issues of Bush.

Yes, Bush cast a huge spotlight on the US, he drew attention to you at the worst possible time; while he was in power and you allowed him to remain there.

I'm not going to focus much on the Foreign Policy issues, because I think that there is a chance they might be solved by Obama.

On a social issue, it is all about education and attitude.
From my own experience, America (specifically the American people) are viewed as misinformed and easily led.
You only need to look at views about 9/11 to see a massive contrast.
Most Europeans look at the official explanation and wonder why you are not asking questions about it.
The average Brit has a list of about 30 things relating to the explanation of 9/11 that simply DO NOT make sense or should at least raise severe questions.
Yet, when discussing these things with an American, they either know nothing about it or imply that their ignorance of these facts makes you somehow a "conspiracy nut".

Several things have been proven to be false about the official explanation, but the average American response to this is "they told me it so it must be true!"
These people seem completely unable to look for information themselves.
Asking questions about this, and even suggesting that there are many things that just don't make sense does not require a conspiracy. I do not presume to believe that the CIA were behind it, or any NWO, I just know that a lot of it defies all logic and reason. Why can't Americans separate the pursuit of truth and justice from the pursuit of a grand conspiracy? One does not automatically relate to the other, and yet it is used over and over to discredit any discussion.

Science tells them that one thing is implausible at best, impossible at worst, yet people blindly accept that what CNN told them (even though it defies all logic, science and proven investigation) is somehow fact.

So many of the supposed "terrorists" named were found to be either a) Still alive or b) had proven links to CIA! And yet America still accepts that there are no more questions to be asked.

For that reason alone you should be marching on Washington and demanding a proper investigation into what was a crime against your nation.
But you don't, you sit back, order another Pizza and sign the next freedom away in exchange for a false promise to save you from the bogey man.

That (among other reasons) is why so many other nations look at America with such baffled expressions.

I fully expect your standing in the world to change when Obama takes office and foreign policy is reformed, for a start you won't have a complete buffoon in the White House. But changing attitudes about Americans will require a lot more, and it starts with the people asking questions of their government, their media and their international counterparts.

It is not enough to just watch the nightly news, then switch to the late show for a fun take on it, you have to take things seriously.
And when the government decides you no longer have the right to protest, you protest it!

The pessimist in me suggests you've already become so numb as a population that you'll never argue or even question your government, and that one day you'll all realize it's too late.

This is what we all talk about in my large group of thinkers and amateur sociologists. 9/11 and the actions of the people after it play a big part in understanding the modern American way of life. I don't know if it's the same for others, but it appears to be so.

Of course, I don't refer to ALL Americans. I know there are a lot of Americans who do actually think and do discuss these things themselves. Unfortunately, they seem to be the vast minority, and that is why non-Americans have such a view.

Frankidealist35 - Your question - A straight forward answer.......

To be a world leader and to gain the respect of the rest of the world, you (you Govt) has to be seen to treat the world fairly and not only from a capitalist point of view.
America invaded Iraq on the "pre text" of 911 or to hunt down Osama. (Even though everybody knew he was in Afghanistan) BS! GW wanted to please daddy and at the same time steal the Iraqi's oil reserves. You are in this mess, mainly because you were looking for revenge and to steal from a soveriegn nation. The world is no better off without Saddam!

Your answer......

Look at the rest of the World. Dogs like Mugabe are allowed to commit genocide, yet the US has no interest in his crimes against humanity. You could send in Rambo or the Governator to over throw Mugabe [like you always do in the movies ], but there's no oil!!!! No capital incentive.

You entertain yourselves at the expense of Soverign Nations with your over zealous movies about South American, African and Eastern European "Despots" Your fairy tale Super Heroes would invade countries and over-throw armies, blow up state buildings, infiltrate and destroy at will, with a platoon of "angry" or "injured" "victims" whose sister has been kidnapped or killed!
In the movies, You never ever leave a country without totally destroying it's infrastructure, yet in reality, you always get your ar**s kicked

You could end the hunger in places like Ethiopia, Zimbabwe, Eretria, Sudan, etc., but NOOOOOOOOOOO - You'd rather burn the food you produce in your gas guzzlers!!!

You could treat all illnesses and diseases throughout the world, but your drugs are too expensive because margins have to be built in for your CEO's bonuses of millions and millions of dollars every year!! (You call it R&D)

You can alleviate world poverty in all areas of the world, but you will rather squander your money on useless extravagencies from China and Japan that are thrown away within a week of being purchased.
I read a few years ago that the market cap for Wal-Mart, was more than the total value of all the Stock Exchanges in Africa combined! Imagine how many lives could have been changed with the market cap of just one of your Companies. Imagine the respect it could have purchased had it been put to good use.

You purchase houses, electronic equipment and cars on a whim without a thought for the environmental impact of your over consumption.

You have sold your soul to the devil because you are lazy, fat and greedy. All your labour has been exported to the third world for a marginal profit and greed. All your labour has now become lazy, unproductive and fat and dependant on your Govt for a handout. (Your Harvard Reviews didn't do you any good)

Your culture is based on hypocracy and like all hypocrites; "You gonna pay the price someday...."
[Ask Bob Marley ]

Just to answer the skeptics that will respond to my post:
Yes I am African - ZA to be exact!
I work for an international Finance Company based in Europe
I have a varsity degree in finance
I earn over ZAR 650K p.a.
My wife earns over ZAR350K p.a.
I own a small business that turns over ZAR4m p.a
I employ 18 staff members

I do not expect that the world owes me. I have done for myself and for others.

Americans:
1. Get your priorties straight
2. Money IS easy come - Easy Go. Invest it wisely.
3. No-one deserves respect - Everyone has to earn it!
4. Arrogance destroys. A little humilty goes a long way.
5. Put your tail neatly between your legs, withdraw from Iraq, withdraw from Afghanistan, bring home a few aircraft carriers and subs, bring home a few jobs, and cower in a little corner until the rest of the world sees you in a different light.

It's ime to pay the Pied Piper - Take it like MEN! The rest of the world has been doing it for years.

Cheers to an Emipre.

[3986 characters!] Can't rave more

Originally posted by purplemonkey

Originally posted by Cio88

I personally dont care if the rest of the world hates us, they hate us because they envy us.

rightttttttttt...

things that annoy me about America/n's

-BAD decision making
-population seems isolated from the outside world... it appears that the majority of Americans don't understand or even know of world issues
-geographically ignorant
-over patriotic
-paranoid
-overweight
-unsustainable
-too corporate
-American MSM just seems so 'feel good' BS... grr i hate it (the onion is a great parody

)
-i guess just general arrogance.. superiority
-whingers (i occasionally see American holiday makers... is all i hear is them complaining)

these are just my little observations...

Unfortunately the US does seem to have an isolationist and protectionist tendency. I think it's desirable that the US retain a strong international future military presence just so there is an equilibrium to China, Iran and Russia. In fact, I believe this will prove rather prudent and necessary. Economically, the common mistake of shutting the doors to the outside world but yet expecting to be allowed to compete without hindrance anywhere is unrealistic.
The US has traditionally defended the West against threats. Most recently the USSR and now fundamentalists. This was done at great expense and effort, so maybe there is the point of view among some that the US should get "paid" for these efforts or at least have preferred status. Understandably...

reply to post by Frankidealist35


"I ask you-- how might we improve our relations with the rest of the world?"

We require some Immediate Changes - ONLY then can we begin discussion:

I'm from Texas. My accent alone makes me of them there foreigners.

Thought I would share this here story I found.

An old man, a boy & a donkey were going to town. The boy rode on the donkey & the old man walked. As they went along they passed some people who remarked it was a shame the old man was walking and the boy was riding.

The man and boy thought maybe the critics were right, so they changed positions.

Then, later, they passed some people who remarked, “What a shame, he makes that little boy walk.”

So they then decided they’d both walk! Soon they passed some more people who thought they were stupid to walk when they had a decent donkey to ride. So, they both rode the donkey

Now they passed some people who shamed them by saying how awful to put such a load on a poor donkey.

The boy and man figured they were probably right, so they decide to carry the donkey. As they crossed the bridge, they lost their grip on the animal & he fell into the river and drowned.

The moral of the story?

If you try to please everyone, you might as well…Kiss your a_ _ goodbye!

www.43things.com...

America can address her own problems. Even after we address and fix those problems, there will still be those countries who will find a new problem with America that is not to their liking. Kinda like dang if you do and dang if you don't.

reply to post by jam321


Seymour Hersh speaking at an ACLU event. He says the US government has videotapes of children being raped at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq:

" Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out."

*That's right America, we don't hate you for 'being free'....