Christian Answers Questions

I have only been on ATS for a short while, but in all the religious threads I see there seems to be some misunderstandings on what exactly a true Christian believes. Let me tell you about myself: I am not a bigot. I do not use my religion to put people down. I do not hate gays. I don't get drunk, do drugs, or have sex out of marriage. I have not always lived this way, so I know both sides. I am intelligent, but not necessarily educated. Trying to get back into school at the moment. I am well read. I know my Bible well, it's weaknesses and strengths. I show others love because Christ showed us love first. I believe the Bible is truth.

That being said, I will get to the point. I wanted to start a thread so that those who wish, for any reason at all, to ask a question about the Bible and expect an honest and intelligent answer, can. I will do my best, and I won't BS you. If I can't anwer, I will tell you so. But I don't believe that will happen. Please no evo vs creation. That one has been beat to death, in my opinion. There are many other threads that are very, very good at providing points for both sides on that debate. I will do my best to reply quickly, but my access to a comp is limited. So be patient, it may take a few hours to get back to you. I feel that we Christians are often misunderstood, and unfortunately it only takes a few rotten eggs to make you want to throw out the whole carton. Merry Christmas to all!

Ok heres one for you.(I need the points ats just deducted from me)
My mother might not be a great mother but she would never banish me to hell.Most parents wouldn't.
If in the bible there is knashing of teeth and all that stuff,then it makes me think god isn't half the person my mother is.
I believe the bible is wrong for that reason.I think gods love is more then any human,yet he seems to get angry and intolerant with his children.
Can you explain why the bible exposed gods weakness.
I am not mocking you in any way shape or form.I actually want to hear how the bible is true after it worte about hell.

My version of the bible is that people didn't believe in heaven at the time he lived.He gave people to a way for their mind to actually believe they could get to heaven.Its consiousness.
He said believe in me and you attain heaven...I think what he meant was even if you believed in a stone...as long as you believe it it is possible.

He meaning Jesus.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by DrumsRfun]

Lots of people who consider themselves as "true" Christians are usually mistaken on things. With that being said, what happens to us at death? I have my opinion but I will wait to see what you say.

reply to post by DrumsRfun


Thank you for being the first to reply! I was afraid no one would ask. I will do my best to answer your question, but remember, I am a true believer, and I believe in the Bible, and everything in it.

Ok. Your mother is biased. I am sure she is a wonderful human being, as I am am sure you are as well, but "...all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23. This is hard for anyone to accept, because it is almost like we never had a chance, but the Bible clearly states "You are of your father the devil, the desires of your father you want to do," John 8:44. God is loving, and merciful, but he is also just. When someone denies Him, and goes to hell, he is only getting what we all deserve. We all deserve death. "the wages of sin is death", from Romans 6:23. That is why the death of Jesus was so important, and special. Many people don't get it, but GOD died for us. Crazy, eh?

reply to post by Blueracer


Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7. That one is easy enough, but I know what you really meant, and that is a tough question to answer. Jesus refers to death, and so do many other verses.

Thou (Moses) shall sleep with thy fathers. Deuteronomy 31:16.

Thou (David) shalt sleep with thy fathers. 2 Samuel 7:12.

The king shall sleep with his fathers. 1 Kings 1:21.

So David slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 2:10.

David slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 11:21.

He (Jeroboam) slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 14:20.

Rehoboam slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 14:31.

Abijam slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 15:8.

Asa slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 15:24.

Baasha slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 16:6.

Omri slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 16:28.

Ahab slept with his fathers. 1 Kings 22:40.



such as Them that sleep in the dust. Daniel 12:2.

Is not dead, but sleepeth. Matthew 9:24.

Lazarus sleepeth. John 11:11.

Some are fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:6.

Concerning them which are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:13.

Since the fathers fell asleep. 2 Peter 3:4.

Etc, etc etc. Now, does that mean we "sleep" until the resurrection? Maybe, but I am not sure. The Bible also says that the dead know nothing, also-- Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:5-6,10.

some people believe that everyone dies, and immediately is at the second coming. sounds pretty crazy, cuz we all die at different times, but in the first few verses of Genesis God establishes the fact that He is outside of time, space, matter, etc. all things are possible with him.

The only things that are a certain are that we die, and those of us who have faith will rise up, whether now or later, to a new body, perfect and holy, and will be that way forever, with no death or sorrow. Those who have rejected the faith, I wish it we no one, will go to eternal punishment.
Kinda sucks, but it is what we all ultimately deserve. Romans 3:23

reply to post by one_man24


What does it mean when it says Moses slept with his Father's? I know it means he died, but what or where did the Jewish people believed happened to him?

Thanks

Originally posted by one_man24
When someone denies Him, and goes to hell, he is only getting what we all deserve. We all deserve death. "the wages of sin is death", from Romans 6:23.

part A of my question: if the ¨wages of sin is death¨ then how can we suffer eternally in hell if the dead ¨know nothing at all¨?

part B: do you really think that a finite amount of sin (80 years or so) is really deserving of an infinite amount of punishment?

reply to post by miriam0566


Miriam,
As I've said before (on BTS), I REALLY appreciate the scholarship you do. It is refreshing!

Do you happen to have a thread that you either "authored" or perhaps gave a "fairly detailed breakdown" of "hell vs. annihilation"?

You've been "beating that drum" for quite awhile and I'd like to review your prior work on this. I have a few thoughts on this and I like to run them by you, but only after I get a chance to review your work.

As a "heads up", I wondering if this verse means anything to you:

Prov. 6:31 But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.

(Here is a quick search on "sevenfold" in the Bible
www.blueletterbible.org...

There seems to be a type of "sevenfold" for punishment?

Secondly, I have an opinion of why I think I'd prefer "hell" over total annihilation. I'm not positive on it, but I am leaning that direction more and more.

I'll wait for your reply about your prior work before I go any further. OK?

reply to post by PreTribGuy


i dont actually have a thread on hell vs annihilation, but i do have a thread on the afterlife which i dont get into hell alot

www.belowtopsecret.com...

maybe i should start a hell vs annihilation?

reply to post by miriam0566


I have read that whole Post you made on that. And you do defy what Hell is. It is a junk yard where waste is put to rot away. I think you also use that phrase to tell about our second death.

But what is the pit,the lake of fire or damnation. I know that at least three spirits go there. The Antichrist.The False Prophet and the Devil. But who else! That's what passels me about this. We think that the people that are not in the book of life end up there as well. But when you describe death. You also say that if we are dead we are not existing. Until we are resurrected to a new life so that we can be Judged before Jesus.
But then i think you go on to say that. If your not found in the book of life. Your spirit or soul is destroyed for ever. I interpret that as meaning dead!!!

I am not quoting you right from your text. So i might be off a bit on my interpretation.

Originally posted by spy66
But what is the pit,the lake of fire or damnation.

the ¨pit¨ or abyss that satan is thrown into for a thousand years is different (i think thats what you are referring to, correct me if im wrong.)

we know this because the lake of fire is destruction. you dont come back from it. ever.

the pit or abyss (depending on translation) is not the lake of fire because after a thousand years, satan is released.

its like having paper trash. throw it in the bin and later if you want to you can retrieve it, but throw it in the fire, its gone forever

rev 20:[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
[2] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
[3] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

even the description of the locations is different, one is a bottomless pit, the other a lake of fire. after satan is freed for a short time, he is THEN after thrown into the lake of fire.

[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

so the satan is thrown into the abyss, where he is ¨inactive¨ or unable to effect the earth. then he is released and allowed tempt restored mankind for a short time, (mind you we will be perfect then) and then he is destroyed. permanently.

I know that at least three spirits go there. The Antichrist.The False Prophet and the Devil. But who else! That's what passels me about this. We think that the people that are not in the book of life end up there as well. But when you describe death. You also say that if we are dead we are not existing. Until we are resurrected to a new life so that we can be Judged before Jesus.
But then i think you go on to say that. If your not found in the book of life. Your spirit or soul is destroyed for ever. I interpret that as meaning dead!!

there is a sequence.

rev 20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

so first thing is that the sea, and death and hell give up the dead. so first there is the resurrection. in acts it talks about the resurrection of the just and unjust. so this resurrection includes most of mankind who has ever existed.

verse 12 talks about books being opened. so its possible that we will have more inspired scriptures during this thousand year period. the verse also talks about the dead being ¨judged out of the things which were written in the books¨ so likely these new ¨books¨ of the bible will address our restoration to a perfect condition.

obedience to them will be vital to our continued living, because both 12 and 13 refer to all of us being judged according to our ¨works¨

verse 14 talks about death and hell being caste into the fire. keep in mind that this not talking about death in general, but rather referring to adamic death. we know this because after hell is and death is destroyed, people are still thrown into the lake of fire.

verse 15 is referring to people who lived in this time (adam till armageddom), are resurrected, and either refuse to obey the new ¨books¨, or obey but are tempted by satan when he is loosed. it is the second death (for most who suffer this it is a literal second death)

these people will be destroyed forever, like satan and the beast and false prophet

i hope that makes sense

My belief is that a Christian is no better than an Atheist or a Mormon, Deist, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism etc... Faith doesn't have a name and doesn't follow anything but yourself. Religion to me is nothing but an excuse to not be yourself. Sorta like Hollywood. It's all about I'm right and your wrong and if you don't change your ways to my ways then you will burn in hell. Well hell can have me if I have to be like Christians I know. They go to church and please the ones who go to church with them but as soon as that time is over it's hit the bar or some their wifes. They curse and hate. I don't need to be a Christian or any other religion to know whats right or wrong.

So my question is: Why does faith in a God need a name?

Sorry I haven't checked this thread in so long. I checked it pretty religiously after the holidays, but no one asked any questions for week. I got a little discouraged and so I did other things. I decided to take a peek today, and what do ya know? Give me just a sec, and I'll answer your questions.

reply to post by miriam0566


I have a new question for you.

If people feel guilt for the wrong doings they have done. Why do we see it fit to punish them even more!

Isn't feeling guilt after you have done something wrong or unjust. A form for punishment or enlightenment. Isn't it more right to just tell them hove to do it right! Instead of applying more suffering to prove a point.

Now this don't apply to the once who dont regret. They might have to experience a consequence of their actions.

Do you see the difference in these two situations. What do we really do with these matters. And what would God do!

I think this is a very important question to know the answer to. Because we all sin. Either by will or just by having a thought.

We can only regret our doings. Not undo them. By regret we might not do the same thing again.

We cant control our sinful thoughts,they just appear out of nowhere. We cant even stop them from happening again. But we can regret having them lol.

The question is the one on top





[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by miriam0566


part A: good question. let me first point out that in my answer to blueracer I stated that no one knows EXACTLY what happens the moment you die. Are you immediately judged? Do we all wake up at the second coming? Do we "sleep" in death until the time of judgement? There are certainly cases for all three in the bible, but who can say which is correct? Only God knows. Perhaps a mix of all three? Now that being said, there are two types of death we are dealing with here. One is physical death of your material body, and the other is a spiritual death of your soul. To deal with the first, we are all certainly going to die one day. That is the direct consequences of Adam's sin, a curse upon the whole human race, as well as us being born into it. Our sinful, imperfect bodies are mortal, and return to the dust from which we came, only to rise again on that last day.
The second death is much more serious, and required a blood sacrifice from God in order to pay our debt. We deserve both deaths, whether we know it or not, but those who hear God's word and listen will only receive the first.

"Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7.

"So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more." Job 14:12.

"All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth." John 5:28

"The day of the Lord will come ... in the which the heavens shall pass away."
2 Peter 3:10.

These verses seem to point to the fact that all will sleep until the last day when God pronounces each individual's fate. The fact that the dead know nothing doesn't change the fact that the wages of sin is death, whether it be physical or spiritual, and the fact that we all will face His judgement one day.

reply to post by miriam0566


part B: A small sin 80 yrs sure doesn't seem like much to us, but you have to remember that God is perfect, and doesn't abide any sin. that is the beauty of what God did for us. you don't have to worry about some small sin you committed 80 years ago. you are forgiven for all sins, no matter what they are. also, I don't know about you, but I am sure I sin daily, no matter how hard I try.

reply to post by spy66


lol, I know what you mean about regret. I regret much that I have done, and I for one am very thankful that someone else paid for my sins. I couldn't even begin to right the wrong I have done in my life.

To answer your question, no one here is seeing fit to punish anyone more, God is the one who gives judgement. Also, no one who is judged gets anything less than what they deserve. Look at it like this... when a judge sends a murderer to prison for life, is it the judge's fault that the man goes to prison? the answer is no. the man committed the crime, and therefore suffers the consequences by having judgement pronounced on him. Also, no one has to be punished at all. You can get what you don't deserve, eternal life and forgiveness for sins, if you hear His words.

reply to post by Solarskye


those christians you know don't sound like christians at all. they sound an awful lot like the pharisees and sadducees of the new testament, in other words- hypocrites.

you are right, a christian is no better than an atheist, mormon, hindu, muslim, etc. we are all children of God, created equally. faith itself doesn't need a name, you can call it sassafrass if you please, but God has a name, it's YHWH (I am), and He makes it clear that He is the only one.

And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:1-3).

“Then Jesus said to him, ‘Away with you, Satan! For it is written, You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’” (Matthew 4:10).

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" (Deuteronomy 6:4).

"You alone are the LORD; You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and everything on it, the seas and all that is in them, and You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You." (Nehemiah 9:6).

Now, you can choose not to believe the bible is true. That is what free will is. The choice to answer God's call to your heart, or to reject it. I would point you to this verse:

Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
Proverbs 3:5

In context:

1 My son, do not forget my teaching, but keep my commands in your heart 2 For they will prolong your life many years and bring you peace and prosperity. 3 Let love and faithfulness never leave you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart. 4 Then you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and humankind. 5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding 6 In all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil. 8 This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones. 9 Honor the LORD with your wealth, with the firstfruits of all your crops 10 Then your barns will be filled to overflowing, and your vats will brim over with new wine. 11 My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline, and do not resent his rebuke 12 Because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in. 13 Blessed are those who find wisdom, those who gain understanding 14 For she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold. 15 She is more precious than rubies; nothing you desire can compare with her. (NIV)

reply to post by one_man24



I agree. "We" sentence a murder to life in prison or to death. For killing someone else. That might seam like the only right thing to do,because that is what your law tell you to do. But not all nations have that kind of law. Why is that!

Lets say you have a little kid 5 years old. And he dose something terribly wrong and you can see it on him that he regrets. What do you do. And what dose most people do!
You throw your feelings at him. And you might even do more because your angry. Is that the right way to set things right! Or is that just the way we are thought to do things!

I mean a punishment is a moral issue. Your punishment might teach a extra lesson or two,but the way you do it might teach him other things as well. By punishment you set a standard for how things are suppose to be done. You teach him how to punish with anger for one. But if you teach to use regret as a way of setting things straight. You dont have to use anger or any form for punishment. You just tell him hove it is suppose to be done right.
Maybe he wont murder someone in the future because he is angry at them. Because murder is a punishment as well based on our anger and hate.


I think this is what the Bible tells us. Don't hate the man that dose the sin but hate the sin.

We tend to hate the man for the sin he has done.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

UPFRONT Personal Disclosure: I'm an ex-Christian (ex-JW's). My bias here is now 100% fully transparent and revealed.

Explanation: Hi one_man24 and welcome to BTS.

I was wondering how you mentally bootstrapped up your cognitive structure concerning the validity of the Bible? Did you start from the A PRIORI PURE GIVEN that the Bible (you don't mention a particular version? I personally use the KJV) is totally infallible from the outset and then try to falsify that position or did you start from the A PRIORI PURE GIVEN that the Bible IS fallible and then try to falsify that position? Its quite obvious the result was and I quote you directly..."I believe the Bible is truth."!...I'm just wondering how you got there? As to answering Questions about the Bible, well I have a couple of Threads (of mine) I would like to bring your attention to...

Here and Here.

Personal Disclosure: Gutsy Thread. Well done OP very courageous. Starred and Flagged.