Homosexuality indeed a psychological thing...?

Originally posted by jd140
I think it is a choice. We all have our preferance to what type of person we find attractive.

Unless of course you think that everyone in my first list was born to like the person they choose to sleep with and/or marry.

Are you looking at the emotional aspect of homosexuality??

Could you wake up one day and say 'Hey! I think i'm going to fall in love with this person'? I don't think so, it's something that just happens. Could YOU fall in love with someone of the same sex? NO. Obviously because you have no preference or attraction to them, and even if you tried your damndest to it wouldn't work, it's just the way you were hardwired.
If we had the ability to choose who to fall in love with everyone would be married, and happy.

Anyone could choose who to have sex with based upon their looks. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty all that matters is love and happyness.

Originally posted by jd140
We all have our preferance to what type of person we find attractive.

Yes, we do.

Some men like big men.
Some men like White men.
Some men like Asian men.
Some men like Black men.
Some men like men in touch with their femine side.
Some men like men who are masculine.

Some women like big women.
Some women like women who are physically in shape.
Some women like women who are very smart.
Some women like women of average size.
Some women like blond women.
Some women like butch women.
Some women like feminine women.

... You get the idea... I hope.

A gay man doesn't just like any man he sees. Gay people have individual preferences, just like we do.

Originally posted by Uniceft17

Originally posted by jd140
I think it is a choice. We all have our preferance to what type of person we find attractive.

Unless of course you think that everyone in my first list was born to like the person they choose to sleep with and/or marry.

Are you looking at the emotional aspect of homosexuality??

Could you wake up one day and say 'Hey! I think i'm going to fall in love with this person'? I don't think so, it's something that just happens. Could YOU fall in love with someone of the same sex? NO. Obviously because you have no preference or attraction to them, and even if you tried your damndest to it wouldn't work, it's just the way you were hardwired.
If we had the ability to choose who to fall in love with everyone would be married, and happy.

Anyone could choose who to have sex with based upon their looks. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty all that matters is love and happyness.

I could care one way or the other. I gave my opinion and it is differant from yours.

Like I said everyone has their preferance to they type of people who make them happy. Not everyone shares the same preferance. So if a man loves women who are large and chooses to marry them because that is what makes them happy then that would mean that they are hardwired to love big women?

You cannot see yourself marrying a woman because you like men. I cannot see myself marrying a large woman because I like petite women.

Does that mean I am hardwired to like petite women?

If homosexuals are hardwired to like the same sex then that would mean that we are also hardwired to like a certain type of person.

The first step to falling in love with someone is finding them physically attractive. The emotional part comes after that.

So like I said, either everyone is hardwired to like a paticular set of people or we choose what we find attractive.

I think we choose. I once perferred Asian women attractive, now I perfer white women.

Looks come first then comes the emotional part.

Originally posted by jd140...everyone has their preferance to they type of people who make them happy. Not everyone shares the same preferance.
...women who are large...hardwired to love big women?...You cannot see yourself marrying a woman...myself marrying a large woman because I like petite women...I am hardwired to like petite women?

I think we choose. I once perferred Asian women attractive, now I perfer white women.

Looks come first then comes the emotional part.

You are missing the point. Notice that all of your choices are restricted to one gender, and you choose from numerous morphologies within that sex.

Gender and morphology are two entirely different things.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by jd140...everyone has their preferance to they type of people who make them happy. Not everyone shares the same preferance.
...women who are large...hardwired to love big women?...You cannot see yourself marrying a woman...myself marrying a large woman because I like petite women...I am hardwired to like petite women?

I think we choose. I once perferred Asian women attractive, now I perfer white women.

Looks come first then comes the emotional part.

You are missing the point. Notice that all of your choices are restricted to one gender, and you choose from numerous morphologies within that sex.

Gender and morphology are two entirely different things.

I am taking the male point of view because I am a man and so is the other guy to whom I was debating with.

I would say he finds musclular men attractive, but I do not know what his prefarence is.

Lets say he does find muscular men attractive. Does that mean that he is hardwired to be drawn to muscular men?

I am drawn to women, but only a certain group of them. It would be easy to say that I am hardwired to be drawn to women, but that would be blanketing a wide range of them. I'm sure that I am not alone who do not find the whole gender of females attractive. Therefore not only am I choosing to like women, I am choosing to like a paticular group of women.

So my question was. Am I hardwired to like white petite women? If so why did I find Asian women attractive and now I do not? Did I re wire myself to fine only white petite females attractive? If I did then in theory it would be possible to re wire a person to become gay and a gay person to become straight. If that is possible then it is in fact a choice to be gay.

reply to post by jd140

The first step to falling in love with someone is finding them physically attractive. The emotional part comes after that.

I have to chime in here and say this is absolutely FALSE. Well false as a general statement. Maybe that is how it works for you.

The person I fell in love with, I got to know on a very deep emotional and mental level WAY before I saw what he looked liked. The emotional/mental took place WAY before the physical. Fact.

******

As far as the gay/straight thing goes. I used to think it was choice = because that is what I was raised to believe. But after all the gay friends I have had and gay people I have talked with....I believe one is born this way. The ol "they were abused as a child" doesnt hold weight with me, because I know plenty of adults who were abused as a child and their sexual orientation was not affected. As do I know plenty of people who are gay who knew they were gay from very early on - though they didnt know what gay was. They just were more attracted to the same gender.

I agree with the other poster who said that people (including gays) fall in love with a PERSON not their gender. You can NOT help who you fall in love with. And its sad so many people have to repress it when it happens.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by jd140

 

The first step to falling in love with someone is finding them physically attractive. The emotional part comes after that.

I have to chime in here and say this is absolutely FALSE. Well false as a general statement. Maybe that is how it works for you.

The person I fell in love with, I got to know on a very deep emotional and mental level WAY before I saw what he looked liked. The emotional/mental took place WAY before the physical. Fact.


I agree with the other poster who said that people (including gays) fall in love with a PERSON not their gender. You can NOT help who you fall in love with. And its sad so many people have to repress it when it happens.

You are right, I forgot about dating websites, chat rooms and the such. Some people (like myself) still go the old fashion route and hit the town for that type of thing. Nothing wrong with the dating websites though. Who knows, maybe it is healthier that way. Congrats.

I do not disagree that we fall in love with the person not the gender. Using that logic then one would assume that a gay male could fall in love with a female and a straight male could fall in love with another man. Therefore we are not wired to be gay or straight, it is a choice.

Originally posted by jd140
Like I said everyone has their preferance to they type of people who make them happy.

You are confusing orientation with preference.

Straight Orientation = Attracted to people of the opposite sex
Homosexual Orientation = Attracted to people of the same sex

We each have our preferences within our orientation, but orientation is not a preference.

reply to post by jd140

You are right, I forgot about dating websites, chat rooms and the such. Some people (like myself) still go the old fashion route and hit the town for that type of thing. Nothing wrong with the dating websites though. Who knows, maybe it is healthier that way. Congrats.

I didnt meet him on a dating website. I met him in far more intellectual way But really, the way I met him was FAR better then me going into bars and being hit on by people ONLY because of what I look like!!! Sorry, but that got old real quick. I prefer a man to like me or want me for my mind rather then my looks. Therefore, the emotional/mental attraction is far more appealing for many then just looking at someone and wanting to know them.

To each their own, thats what I say Whatever works best for each of us

But back on topic....

I do not disagree that we fall in love with the person not the gender. Using that logic then one would assume that a gay male could fall in love with a female and a straight male could fall in love with another man. Therefore we are not wired to be gay or straight, it is a choice

If one is wired to be a certain way (gay or straight) then they are going to obviously be drawn to and fall in love with that gender. That is not a choice, that is something that is just inside of them. I believe the only ones who CHOOSE are bisexuals, because they can choose to be with their gender or the opposite.

[edit on 12/24/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by jd140

If you group homosexuals with straight people then you would have to say that they choose to like the person of the same sex.

I once believed that homosexuality was a "choice" until the subject came up at work and a coworker who was both black and gay spoke up.

He made the issue of choice rather clear with his personal explanation... He was born black, and through his life had faced discrimination because of his race, gave many examples of his difficult life as a black man in this country then admitted he was also gay, "as if life wasn't already difficult enough" then asked a question that required no answer.... On top of all of that, do you really believe I'd choose to also be gay?

I don't think anyone would choose to be gay, nor do I believe it is a condition that can be treated, it is what it is.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
He was born black, and through his life had faced discrimination because of his race, gave many examples of his difficult life as a black man in this country then admitted he was also gay, "as if life wasn't already difficult enough" then asked a question that required no answer.... On top of all of that, do you really believe I'd choose to also be gay?

I don't think anyone would choose to be gay, nor do I believe it is a condition that can be treated, it is what it is.

My daughter and her best friend both had a hard time because they are gay (no, they aren't in a relationship with each other.) They would have like to snap a finger or take a pill and wake up straight.

The reverse is also true. I'm straight, and there is no amount of exposure or training or brainwashing or electroshock therapy that would make me comfortable kissing another woman (I don't generally hug them, either.) Although I have women friends (and even some who are lesbian), there's not enough wild horses that could drag me into a sexual relationship with any of them.

My opinion could be wrong, that is why it is an opinion and not fact. Just as is your opinions. I could really care less if a person is born gay or chooses to be gay. It isn't my life.

If a man is happy with another man, fine by me. Just don't grab my ass

There was never a choice for me to be gay or not. I have been gay for as long as I can remember. I was attracted to men years before I even knew what sex was.

When I got older it was basic physiology that reinforced my orientation. No matter how attractive or sexy a woman is, there is no way that I could have an erection to make love to her because I am 100% gay. It's just not physically possible with me. Yet I can easily be aroused by various types of men. I can’t even choose the man I fall in love with as my most meaningful relationships have always been unexpected and unplanned.

As others have pointed out, being gay is one of the most challenging social prejudices to deal with and not a path anyone would choose if they had the choice. The only choices regarding being gay are whether or not to be honest with yourself about being gay and whether or not to come out.

I applaud the OP - Nice to see a thread on this subject that is not chocked full of naivety. I hate always feeling like I need to defend my existence rather than being able to just have a nice, civil conversation about homosexuality!

It's hard to convey a sincere opinion on any subject when everyone comes in guns-ablaze'n! (I have been guilty of this myself...)

~Peace


[edit on 25-12-2008 by archetype_one]

reply to post by Jkd Up


no ones born gay or straight, its a choice 100%

also, no one is born thinking chocolate tastes good or bad,
you taste it then you decide if u like it or not

liking or disliking something is purely a choice, no matter what what it refers to

I agree completely with the Posters question in that I say a definite YES. I read a book (actually two from the author) many years ago that just confirmed a few things that I think most would agree with, if only they didn't allow their sheeple mentality to get in the way as its swayed by their peers and media control. I suggest you dig out the book 'The Primal Scream' by Dr. Arthur Janov. One of the brave people who see the harm that his profession is doing and tries to change from within but as usual in the medical and other controlled professions gets slated. Think a prominent scientist going onto UK's BBC news program or (CNN in the US) and saying what we all know is true. That the big yellow sun is the cause of global warming and we are certainly not the cause, and askes all governments to stop using this non-issue as a political football. What sort of funding do you think he or his workplace would receive after the media have finished with him? Incidentally just a very small portion of his book focuses on homosexuality but he believes this mental disorder just like obesity, drugs, violence can all be cured and his second book some 10years later following specific cases shows this!

But, its not PC to even identify this as an illness or mental disorder but that is for the sheeple masses. I don't dispute that a tiny tiny proportion of humans (like any other animal) can be hermaphrodite but that's it, the rest are in denial for what ever reason that suits or as I guess they believe 'helps' their mental illness. I have a couple of 'gay' friends that I've known for many years and they are classic denial of things that have affected them in their formative years but they don't associate this with their being 'born' gay as they put it. Its ironic that they can't see this as one is both an Alcoholic and Drug abuser in recovery. One was a heavy drug user and now focuses one everything else in the same way i.e. obsesses on food, his two dogs and every new fad that soon ends (yes he knows this but says its better than heroin). They know my opinions on their condition and it hasn't affected our friendship.

If we have a penis its for two reasons 1. To urinate and 2. To help make more human animals and every other variant on it is just that a non-natural choice variant and certainly no premise for a new status in society!

It can't be a choice. A lot of people forget to apply themselves to a situation before they start giving everyone else their opinions on the matter:

To the hetrosexuals saying "it's a choice", stop and think about it for a second. Can you honestly see yourself DECIDING that you like men, and it actually applying - and you become sexually aroused by the male body?

I see nothing on a naked guy that makes me aroused, decisions have nothing to do with it! The number of times Ive been "partially aroused" by a female over the years and made the decision for that to stop - it never works! :p

" STOP IT! THINK ABOUT CONCRETE SLABS, THINK ABOUT CONCRETE SLABS! MENTAL NOTE: DONT STAND UP!"

[edit on 25/12/08 by dawa]

reply to post by Jkd Up

If you seriously expect anyone of the homosexual persuasion to post on here and claim that their sexual orientation is anything but hardwired into their DNA, then you are sadly mistaken. While the debate over the issue is more heated than ever, I can honestly say that I have never seen a gay/lesbian/bi individual support the notion that ones sexual persuasion is a choice.

So, if that's the premise of this thread, as it appears it may be, then I think you're approaching this issue the wrong way. I hate to speak in such generalities and paint with such a broad brush, but I am fairly certain that you will not find a single homosexual who thinks they are the way they are because they simply chose to be or because of their environment.

Personally, my mind is not made up either way on this issue. Of course I'm leaning more towards homosexuality being something you're born with, but I'm still awaiting proof. Until the scientific community can identify a "gay gene" (or something of the like) and it is established that it is found in a majority of, or all of, homosexuals, then this will never be settled in my mind.

Anyway, does it really matter? I could really care less about someones personal sexual persuasion. As long as what they are doing is legal and between consenting adults, then so be it. Does it really matter whether they were born gay, became gay by choice, or were stung by a "gay bee"? They're still gay.

And one more thing... what if science does one day discover this "gay gene"? And what if they are able to test a pregnant woman's unborn child for such a gene? And what if that results in certain individuals choosing to terminate their pregnancy as a result? I can seriously see that happening. We are already seeing pregnancies being terminated because a child is identified as having certain disabilities or deformities. And although the type of people who morally object to homosexuality are usually the kind of people who happen to morally object to abortion, I still think there are people out there who would feel compelled to end their pregnancy and spare their child (and most likely themselves) a life of a homosexual. I think that is a terrible thing to do. But in a future of "designer babies", and with the scientific community actively working to uncover things like a gay gene, it is a legitimate concern to have, IMO.

To try and answer the question as a gay man,I honestly have no idea what "makes" me gay. I just,kind of am. You know,even from a very young age,I fancied the male teachers at school,instead of all the female teachers my friends were fapping over.

1 thing I know for certain,is that this is NOT a choice. I did not choose this,like many other men,coming to terms with their sexuality,I tried desperatly to be normal. Couldn't even arouse myself for a woman when i tried. I am not attracted to women,it's just that simple. And I certainly didn't choose to be a victim of vicious ignorant people,who think it's fine to beat on a gay person,becasue they're gay. It's the same as beating up a black person cos they're black. It's daft,it's retarded,and it's hateful.

In virtually every post on this subject,I end with the same message. And I'll keep on at it until it sinks in.

We as humans,need to look at our simularities. Not at our differences. that drives us appart,and we as a race (the human race,as I believe there is ONLY 1 RACE) need to be brought together,not driven appart.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
reply to post by Jkd Up

 

I think that is a terrible thing to do. But in a future of "designer babies", and with the scientific community actively working to uncover things like a gay gene, it is a legitimate concern to have, IMO.