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Originally posted by Alienmojo
Originally posted by JustInCase101
Religon causes wars, wars are fought in the name of religon to reliquish and turn people of other religons. anyone remember the crusades? catholic/christians against muslims/islamic people? i bet they still remember and its probably preached to them thats why they constantly yell holy war.
I'll give you the Crusades to a certain point. But I still contend that the majority of wars that are fought under the pretense of 'religion' are actually being fought for greed... not God. People just say religion is the reason they are fighting. Even the Crusades turned into a greedy war as belongings and homes were taken.
Do you think George invaded Iraq more for God or oil? I think his god is actually the oil. What do you think? Thanks for your post brother and have a good one.
Originally posted by Alienmojo
Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by Alienmojo
I want to share something with you.
I have come to the conclusion that the bible is too good to be true in a sense. your born into this world, then you read a bible that you are assured by others is the true word of god, do you really think it is that easy?
I think the higher being ( god if you will ) want's us to " feel " our way home. want's us to find our way back home by our own free will. I don't think the bible can assure free will by following it, just the fact you have to believe in jesus to have eternal life is not free will.
I don't think the way " home " is through any one book, since I have chosen to find the path by my own free will, I think I will have help on the way, but not from a church, not so much through a book either, but from within. Reading books and listening to other's point of view can help to make sense of it all, but contain no answers in themselves.
Hopefully that made sense.
peace
Hey Pure... I had to laugh when I read your post. Even as a Christian I have my doubts too..its normal, we are human. I said the exact same thing to my best friend.."It's too good to be true." At the time I was referring to life after death rather than the Bible though. Same difference I guess. Personally we have to come to our own conclusions on such thing, but one thing that made me feel better was this. Would you rather spend your life not believing in God and having nothing to hope for OR believe in God and have something to hope for? I want God to exist and if He doesn't then our whole lives are meaningless and pointless.
So is the Bible the actual word of God? I mean, man chose which books to include in it..right? So I say yes, it is. Why? Because I hope it to be. I hope that there is a God out there that can make sure the correct books are included and that they are His word. I don't know the answer Pure... all I know is that I hope and pray that God and His word are true... if they aren't... what is life worth living for? Take care brother.
With god in our hearts we can grow to our potentials. But God is everywhere, and not just in a church or a religion. Look in your heart. I would rather say;
"If mankind is to survive then God in our hearts should grow."
Originally posted by pause4thought
I have specifically addressed the issue of evidence. What is seen is endless complexity and apparent design in that the universe contains order, which we summarize as 'laws', and further apparent design in that living organisms are by their very essence extraordinarily complex in their physiological makeup. And that is not to mention the interrelated, intertwined role each plays in the overall scheme of things.
When it comes to life-forms the information contained within DNA alone is such a wonderful example of exquisitely purposefully structured information that that alone is sufficient grounds for saying evidence for design and a designer is an entirely logical conclusion.
As to not being able to prove, test, see, hear, watch, witness, etc. we can do all of that with respect to the vastly complex systems I have referred to. However with respect to God himself your request to be able to do these things is exposed as illogical at the first hurdle: you fail to appreciate that that which is conceived to have brought the entire universe into being must by its very nature exist beyond that which it created.
Your premise is no different to a blind man saying he will not accept things are real unless he can touch, hear or feel them.
...but create everything for no apparent reason?
The fact you are unaware of the reason does not equate to there being no reason. I most certainly believe there was and remains a reason this all came into being. A very real reason. Another day, another discussion.
You then state that you now have evidence to prove god.
The evidence that God is real is there...
What is not there is total, seeing-is-believing proof.
...after over-looking the obvious hypocritical view behind "evidence is wrong, but i have evidence to prove I'm right"...
Again I never said anything about any evidence being wrong, but my evidence being right. Yet another straw man argument!
...lets say in the future (near future) that a computer were to become as complex, would you renounce your faith?
If you think near future you have no idea of the complexity of life.
Frankly to think humans could ever create such marvels & put billions of them together in working, self-replicating order defies reality.
You also are implying that anyone not a theist, must believe in evolution.
Without insisting there are no exceptions, the fact is that is indeed nearly always the choice. Interesting how when one challenges the mathematical and logical basis of intricate, purposeful design by chance "It doesn't have to have been evolution" is a frequent retort. Suggests a real insecurity with respect to evolution.
We don't fear punishment, we don't fear a devil, we don't believe that this is only a test, we take life as a gift for we know it is our only one.
Really? Now here's a thing. You know something you can't prove. That's faith if ever I saw it.
there is barely any evidence that this Jesus actually existed
I, and many hundreds of millions of others beg to differ. Another day, another discussion.
The majority of figures that wrote about this Jesus didnt actually witness him, or even were alive during his time. Which would declare those words hearsay (heard from another).
On the contrary, only those who were eyewitnesses wrote the New Testament. Another day, another discussion.
Religion for most is a way to stay ignorant, for they, deep inside their subconscious mind, are afraid of knowledge.
Rejecting God for most is a way to stay ignorant, for they, deep inside their subconscious mind, are afraid of judgement.
Which one is more illogical?
I maintain that there is powerful logic, not to mention evidence, behind faith in God. Each individual is welcome to weigh the arguments and reach their own conclusion.
Originally posted by toasted
reply to post by Alienmojo
" the Bill Maher movie "Religulous" about religion, and although I know he hand picked the wackiest of all people to put in his film and did some creative editing to boost the point, the bottom line is that Bill Maher is using a satiric movie to bolster his anti-religious rheteric. "
I like bill mahr, I loved politically incorrect.
But it's too bad that he's deceived. I didn't see the movie, but from his comments on late night, I can tell her never learned anything worthwhile [about The Word ], so I understand where he's coming from, if I were he, I'd be making the same mistakes.
What am I trying to say? That if one is serious about this like I think he is, that he should find sources other than the apostacy churches for information to go on. It is just that simple.
I see many members here spouting the same kind of garbage about what Christians believe, but nothing about the difference between the lies and the truth, because they don't know there is any , but they go on acting as if they had a clue when they do not.
For instance;
The 6 day Creation was, 6,000yrs long [ a year to God is as a thousand years to man ]
The "tree" in the garden was not an apple tree, but a man, The Word uses tree many times in the scriptures to describe men/man with the word tree.
Adam was not the father of Cain, for Cain is not in Adams geneology in Genesis, because Satan was Cains father, Satan was the tree in the garden. Which means Eve gave birth to twins from 2 fathers. Eve was "beguiled" which means wholly seduced.
The first earth age is when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, after the war in heaven, God destroyed that earth age, and renewed the planet. We are now in the 2nd earth age where we get to choose who we will follow, satan or God [ providing we get to figure it out ] , with the 3rd right around the corner. [ it's been a war between those two choices since the very beginning. That is why the ten tribes were put into captivity as punishment ]
Had bill mahr known any of that, I think he'd of made a very different film, providing he was allowed to.
Originally posted by GRANDWORLDDRAMA
the KINGDOM of GOD will continue
all knees will bow
Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Originally posted by Alienmojo
Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by Alienmojo
I dont believe in god and I have plenty to hope for, why do I need to believe in an after life when I have a perfectly good current life? I have found meaning and a point to my life without hoping for something after I die. I just dont understand that view. Why not appreciate the life we are all currently living as opposed to hoping for something better. If you are not happy with the life you are living....do something about it dont hope for something better after you die. If there is no after life, and you cannot find meaning or a point to your current life, you will get to the end and have wasted the only life you had.
Good points, however if I reach the end and have wasted my life it doesn't truly matter because in a moment I will cease to exist. Everything that I have worked for in my life will disappear forever. The 'hope' I speak of is that it doesn't end and that my life DOES matter. You can say all you want how much you appreciate life and that's great, don't get me wrong, but in the end your still maggot food and my life, my spiritual life, is just beginning. Knowing that one continues on after death brings much more hope than a person who knows that he better enjoy what he has now because this is it.
Again, this is just my opinion brother. Looks like we are both pretty happy, if not 'hopeful', with what we got. So my whole point once again with this thread is that if religion got back to basics and loved everyone, as it was meant to do, then this world would be a better place for us all.
Originally posted by toasted
reply to post by Alienmojo
" the Bill Maher movie "Religulous" about religion, and although I know he hand picked the wackiest of all people to put in his film and did some creative editing to boost the point, the bottom line is that Bill Maher is using a satiric movie to bolster his anti-religious rheteric. "
I like bill mahr, I loved politically incorrect.
For instance;
The 6 day Creation was, 6,000yrs long [ a year to God is as a thousand years to man ]
The "tree" in the garden was not an apple tree, but a man, The Word uses tree many times in the scriptures to describe men/man with the word tree.
Adam was not the father of Cain, for Cain is not in Adams geneology in Genesis, because Satan was Cains father, Satan was the tree in the garden. Which means Eve gave birth to twins from 2 fathers. Eve was "beguiled" which means wholly seduced.
The first earth age is when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, after the war in heaven, God destroyed that earth age, and renewed the planet. We are now in the 2nd earth age where we get to choose who we will follow, satan or God [ providing we get to figure it out ] , with the 3rd right around the corner. [ it's been a war between those two choices since the very beginning. That is why the ten tribes were put into captivity as punishment ]
Had bill mahr known any of that, I think he'd of made a very different film, providing he was allowed to.
Originally posted by RFBurns
Religion is the very CORE of wars and hate and violence because ALL of our wars are over religious reasons.