If mankind is to survive, then religion must continue.

reply to post by RFBurns


Wow... lots to respond to here... thanks for post. As much as I will disagree with you, I must still say I enjoy the chance to talk with you here. That said...here we go...

First off, lots of the stuff in the beginning of my post was copied from someone else's post that said, 'If mankind is to survive, then religion must end.' I was making a point by coping what he said and changing it around a bit. So that 'end of story' stuff was what he said with me turning it around to my view... I hope that makes sense. Read his post and you'll understand why I wrote this one.

Yes, some wars are caused by religion. However, you make it sound as if ALL wars are caused by religion...that is not true. Look at the revolutionary war, the world wars, vietnam, whatever... I think it is a narrow view to say that religion caused it all. I might believe you if you said GREED was the underlying cause... but not religion.

Lots of the wars in the Middle East have been religious based. Yes, the Inquistions and even the Crusades were religious based.. but not all. No matter what Bush says about God, I don't believe our current wars are religious in nature. That's greed, my friend... pure and simple. Bush is a bully and a war monger. If he was doing it for God I would think he would go into Somalia or Africa and help those poor people...but guess what? No oil there!

Can't learn love with so many religions? Hmmm.. well I certainly have! In fact I live in an area right now that has the majority of people against my religion... guess what? That just causes me to pour out more love. So I have to disagree there.

What is heaven? Metaphysics now, huh? If you don't want to believe in heaven brother, that is your view. Many do believe in heaven and heaven is something different for everyone else. For me heaven is a place where I will meet my Father and be with him. Is it going to be a galactic pizza party? I don't know. Is there gonna be clouds and harps? I don't know. Honestly I don't care much either... all I wish is to be with the Father and that is what I strive for. Your heaven or hell, for lack of a better term, is whatever you wish it to be. You wish to not believe? That is fine my friend. Personally, I think I am better off believing... at least I have hope of a better place. I feel sorry for you because you have nothing to look forward to but non-existence. That makes me sad... but that is your right to believe what you will.

You say that if there was a God he wouldn't let bad things happen. I disagree. God allows it for many reasons... many His own that I can't possibly comprehend. But I do know two of the reasons are because we have 'free will' and the other is so we learn from our mistakes. My belief in God allows me to trust Him and so I do.

No hard evidence in the Bible you say. You kinda lost me there. Every year more things are confirmed in the Bible. Ancient cities that were thought to be mere fables are found buried... ancient people who are were thought to not exist are found named on artifacts that are found. So I have to disagree with you there.

Those are my feelings anyways. Thanks for reply.

reply to post by RFBurns


Very well said. If I may add...

"God is not someone that comes to you... You have to go to God"

I think I said that correctly. This is what so many "religious" people think, that God will do things for them if they just believe. This world is the domain of Darkness. One must show in their heart that he/she is worthy of God's attention. Few on this planet are.

Originally posted by warrenb
I suggest the OP watch Religulous

www.imdb.com...

I suggest you read at least a couple of paragraphs lol.

Peace.

Originally posted by Muundoggie
reply to post by RFBurns

 

Very well said. If I may add...

"God is not someone that comes to you... You have to go to God"

I think I said that correctly. This is what so many "religious" people think, that God will do things for them if they just believe. This world is the domain of Darkness. One must show in their heart that he/she is worthy of God's attention. Few on this planet are.

Yes, I agree that you should make the first step towards finding God. The hopeful part of me says that God also trys to reveal Himself to us in such a way that we can find our way to Him as well.

Again, I mainly started this thread because I felt that people were using religion as a scapegoat to blame for all our ills. I personally think we have no one to blame but ourselves... but if we use religion correctly we can deal with these problems better and better ourselves as a result.

Oh...and forgive me... on a personal note... your first name isn't Robert by any chance, is it? I served in the military with a Robert Burns.

reply to post by Alienmojo

How can you say mankind has not learned to love? Are you saying that I am living a lie? I know I'm a romantic... I want everyone to love each other and help each other. It gets me in a lot of trouble here... I don't care... I love ya all anyway.

Please show me a world in total peace where there is no war, murder, envy, jealousy, corruption, stealing, fornication, back-stabbing, deceit. I could go on but I hope you see my point.
I love you as well but that doesn't mean that mankind has learned to LOVE.


[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by warrenb
I suggest the OP watch Religulous

www.imdb.com...

I suggest you read at least a couple of paragraphs lol.

Peace.

Hi Phoenix, yes I have seen a bit of it. I've watched enough Bill Maher on tv to know his views. He is so extremely anti-religion that he is on a par with Rush Limbaugh being anti-Democratic. Because of their views they can not look upon what they hate in a rational manner. Much like a KKK member hates all black people even though he has no rational reason to.

To me Bill Maher is one of those people I spoke about earlier who asked God for a bike and they never got it. Meaning that something bad happened in his life that he blamed God for and now he uses his television show to get back at God and all he does is hurt those who may have had a chance to have a decent relationship with God.

People blame religion for wars? I blame people like Maher who have no room in their hearts for understanding or tolerance of others. Where I work there are 90% Mormons. Many of them are my close friends. I don't make fun of them, I respect them. Believe me, its difficult sometimes because their beliefs are so radically different than my own. Personally I don't think Bill Maher could ever work there... he lacks compassion and tolerance and I pity him.

reply to post by Alienmojo



Sorry for the long reply, I should have condensed it a bit. But I will here with the counter-reply reply.

It is not that I dont believe, it is that I dont believe in how it is described, displayed, and invisioned. Im not a religious person, tho I was raised in the Christian belief. When I learned of all the other religions and studied history of mankind as to why so many religions, it became clear to me that just because a group with a certian number of followers believes in one religion over another, doesnt make the one or any of them right.

And then I realized that it all is contradicting. To tell people that "you shall burn in hell" when God is supposed to be forgiving drove me even further away from the pre-set doctrine that obviously is not "God's" way. Then looking at how innocents suffer, die, go hungry, get killed over wars that are directly linked to religious beliefs..well that put me even further away from those pre-set doctrines.

Perhaps religion need not end completely, but one thing is for sure, the forcing of religion onto others definately must stop, it is for that very reason why there is so much war, distruction and suffering. Let people believe in what they want, where they want, and how they want. Its a mighty big universe out there and if necessary, mankind needs to expand outward to keep from being smoothered by so many religious beliefs in one basket.




Cheers!!!!

reply to post by Alienmojo

People blame religion for wars? I blame people like Maher who have no room in their hearts for understanding or tolerance of others.

For a moment I thought you were all about love. Now I see you are blaming people like Bill Maher for wars. Blaming someone for something is not a very god like quality now is it?


[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

Originally posted by Muundoggie
Please show me a world in total peace where there is no war, murder, envy, jealousy, corruption, stealing, fornication, back-stabbing, deceit. I could go on but I hope you see my point.
I love you as well but that doesn't mean that mankind has learned to LOVE.

Right there..just one example that makes the point. Where in this world is there complete happiness and no hate? No wars and no famine?

It is not that mankind cannot love, mankind cannot get along when so many religions guide mankind away from each other and teaches the other is not worthy to live or to love the other.

Not all follow that path, but there are plenty that do. So what happens? The other side reverts to the same tactic the offending side is doing, war, death, distruction, killing, and why?....for religious belief.

Oh..to answer your question...it is Robert. Pleasure to meet you.


Cheers!!!!

The problem is those men in power, not religion.

Religion have been suppressed many times in history with some succeeding, but guess what happened??

The men in power in those times, elevated themselves to a status of a God and demanded worship and absolute obedience from their subjects or face severe punishment. They created a religion revolving around themselves.

So the problem is not religion but man himself. I've seen this behavior right in ATS forums. Some member here have discarded the idea of God, but claimed that they can be Gods in their own right.

The idea of 'you are your own God' is disgusting because the word God is often associated with oppression, intimidation, and slavery. You can't be a good God, but you can be a good friend.

Originally posted by RFBurns
reply to post by Alienmojo

 

Perhaps religion need not end completely, but one thing is for sure, the forcing of religion onto others definately must stop, it is for that very reason why there is so much war, distruction and suffering. Let people believe in what they want, where they want, and how they want. Its a mighty big universe out there and if necessary, mankind needs to expand outward to keep from being smoothered by so many religious beliefs in one basket.

I'm with you where you say that religion needs to be revamped some. Here is one interesting thought I have had about the many religions out there. And I'm not saying I'm right... just an idea. Perhaps there are so many religions out there because there are so many different types of people and those religions are needed to bring people to God. Maybe there isn't one 'true' religion. Maybe they are all needed to find one's way to God. Because personally I feel a good person, who has lead a good Christ-like life(whether he believes in Christ or not) will eventually go to heaven. I don't know... just an idea. I find it hard to believe that God would send someone to hell just because they were unlucky enough to be born into the wrong religion or no religion at all. Who is to say which is the correct religion? Maybe as long as you lead a good life you get another chance to pick the right religion? I don't know... I'm not talking reincarnation either...don't believe in that. What do you think? Any ideas?

Originally posted by ahnggk
The problem is those men in power, not religion.

Religion have been suppressed many times in history with some succeeding, but guess what happened??

The men in power in those times, elevated themselves to a status of a God and demanded worship and absolute obedience from their subjects or face severe punishment. They created a religion revolving around themselves.

So the problem is not religion but man himself. I've seen this behavior right in ATS forums. Some member here have discarded the idea of God, but claimed that they can be Gods in their own right.

The idea of 'you are your own God' is disgusting because the word God is often associated with oppression, intimidation, and slavery. You can't be a good God, but you can be a good friend.

How right you are! And even in some circumstances religious men themselves have raised themselves to the level of God.
I also hold the 'you are your own God' as blasphemous. I bet if we could all be just 'good friends' life would be much better. Someone once said that if we could all feel as strongly for a stranger's death as we do for a close friend or relative, then we would not have wars.

Originally posted by ahnggk
The problem is those men in power, not religion.

Religion have been suppressed many times in history with some succeeding, but guess what happened??

The men in power in those times, elevated themselves to a status of a God and demanded worship and absolute obedience from their subjects or face severe punishment. They created a religion revolving around themselves.

So the problem is not religion but man himself. I've seen this behavior right in ATS forums. Some member here have discarded the idea of God, but claimed that they can be Gods in their own right.

The idea of 'you are your own God' is disgusting because the word God is often associated with oppression, intimidation, and slavery. You can't be a good God, but you can be a good friend.

How right you are! And even in some circumstances religious men themselves have raised themselves to the level of God.
I also hold the 'you are your own God' as blasphemous. I bet if we could all be just 'good friends' life would be much better. Someone once said that if we could all feel as strongly for a stranger's death as we do for a close friend or relative, then we would not have wars.

Originally posted by Muundoggie
reply to post by Alienmojo

 

People blame religion for wars? I blame people like Maher who have no room in their hearts for understanding or tolerance of others.

For a moment I thought you were all about love. Now I see you are blaming people like Bill Maher for wars. Blaming someone for something is not a very god like quality now is it?


[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

Sorry doggie, I wasn't meaning to be so literal there... I meant closed minded people LIKE Bill Maher... not Bill Maher himself. Just for the record, I think Bill is very funny... which is why I get so mad at him for being the way he is.
I can blame someone and still be about love. Truth IS truth. If someone is responsible for something then they are... but I can still love them. I still love Bill Maher... I just think that his closed mindedness helps contribute to these things. Make sense?
As for my belief? Very simple. I try to live as Chirst-like a life as possible. I help everyone I can no matter who they are if I am able... unless they owe me money. LOL I'm just kidding about the money part. I also believe that killing is wrong, no matter what the context is. Would I kill someone who killed someone close to me, you ask? I would hope not, but one can never accurately say yes or no to something like that without ever actually experiencing it. But I would still hope I would not kill.
I hope that clears that up a bit for ya.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Alienmojo]

Originally posted by Muundoggie
reply to post by Alienmojo

 

How can you say mankind has not learned to love? Are you saying that I am living a lie? I know I'm a romantic... I want everyone to love each other and help each other. It gets me in a lot of trouble here... I don't care... I love ya all anyway.

I love you as well but that doesn't mean that mankind has learned to LOVE.


[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

Doggie I think you kinda proved my point there. If you love me...then you have learned to love... and aren't you part of mankind?
Mankind has empathy and love... I just feel you aren't seeing it. Its there. Tv news just makes it look like everyone hates each other. I truly belive that the vast majority of humans love each other... its just that bottom percentage, the rotton apples, that ruin it for everyone else. Maybe I'm being just hopefully optimistic in saying that I believe the percentage is higher for those that love than for those that hate.

reply to post by Alienmojo


Gotta get to bed, I have to work in the morning. I will try to answer more tomorrow guys! Thanks for all the neat replies! Love ya!

Originally posted by InvisibleHeroes
I don't see, how any religions, can allow humanity to move forward.
It keeps people where they are, and doesn't allow them to go outside the boundaries to do new things.
I think having a belief system that everyone is supposed to believe in the same way and do the same thing, is not good for humanity and only keeps it back and controls it.
However I am not saying that people shouldn't have individual religious beliefs.
But organized religion has proven itself over a long time to be a bad thing.

you might want to research Buddhism / Hinduism's practice of Kundalini pranah/ chakra awakening.. and the Quaballic Tree of Life chart as methods to attaining higher levels of being.

literally.. it's pretty much the OPPOSITE of restrictive.

as for aspects of religion that limit us..
have a free for all on Christian ity with that one. by all means.
and islam and other ridiculous "additions" that man has put on religions to limit the masses... and control their behavior.

there's also a discernment between "restrictions" and "rules of moderation" that help one be more disciplined and in control of themselves.


I understand what your sentiment is...

but it comes across as a very ill-informed synopsis of how religion limits people.


-

merry xmas alienmojo

imo i dont think religion is required at all...
peace, love, happiness and good dont need religion to exist. neither do war, hate, anger or bad. with that said i dont see what a belief in a god (religion) actually achieves. humanity would still be much the same as it is now except without religion and possibly 1000 years earlier.
and personally i will accept that god exists when he comes and talks with me.

reply to post by Alienmojo


has it EVER occurred to ANYONE that the spirit is real? Good and evil are aspects of every human being alive. This spirit connects us and dictates our reality by the energy (or spirit) we put into our action, inaction, interaction and reaction?

Are we not yet capable of knowing right from wrong? Have we not learned from our mistakes and the mistakes made by others?

Most of our holy books condemn judging, yet we do it every day.

We believe what we're told to believe because it saves us from having to think for ourselves.

Religion isn't the problem, it's our lack of understanding the dogma that by now should have become self-evident truth.

We lost our way a long time ago. Luckily, there's still hope we'll get it back in time to save ourselves.

organised religion has gotta go,individual philosophy is the only way.

let's take a look at the 2 options.

1. existence has always been and will always be.

2. something sprang into existence somehow then proceeded to make some other things for some reason.

remember what you thought before you were told what to think?is there anyone who thought that existence wasn't eternal?

whatever,merry new years all.