Religion is a path. The holy spirit leads. Jesus is the way to God.

Why can't we just all get along? Because there is a spiritual battle (War) going on every day...whether we acknowledge it or not... between good and evil.

Until there is a separation between the dark (evil) and the light (good)
this battle (War) will go on. The battle is for every soul on earth. Religion tries to show people how to find the light but only by embracing True Unconditional Love and forgiveness can we begin to walk in the light.

Jesus is the fast track and sure way to Unconditional Love & forgiveness. The holy spirit leads us to Jesus. Christians are not perfect... we are just trying to stay in the light. It is not to easy to stay in the light here on earth.

I understand and respect those who are not walking in or toward the light. It is your choice to do or not to do so. I would only add... choose wisely... because we will all reap what we sow.

(For even those who do not choose are still making a choice)

In LOVE & Peace. Cindy

Cindy, and what if jesus never exiated, what then or not in the contest of how he or his life is potrayed to us. What if this is just all a construct and what you are actually believing in is some ones wet dream what then.

Do we really need religion to love or understand our fellow man, do we need our heads filled with hate and indifference to achieve what some myth, legend or dream. Man is a savage dressed in a cloak of sevility a thin veneer that can be dropped at a moments notice. All the age long mind control and fear spilling out into rage against our fellow man.

Have you ever thought what it would be like if we did not have this construct, what we could have achieved by now. No, no one can imagine what it would be like becuase our minds have been conditioned to believe that we are flawed, that we are not perfect that we are sinners. It is that, that guides our thoughts and actions.

If you empower a person and guide them correctly they can achieve so much but it you control their thoughts, dumb them down and make them feel inferior they will act accordingly.

Originally posted by Alienmojo

Originally posted by reiki

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned about Allah, and comparing him to Christianity. Allah is only the arabic name for God. Much like dieu in French. It is not a different God. Islam recoqnises Judaism & Christianity. The folks within their scriptures, are people of the Qu'ran also. Idiots abound that say they do things in the name of Islam, sure. These folks are misguided.

I see the point, i really do, when folks say spirituality is what is needed. I'm spiritual myself, not religious. Some folks like a set framework though. Perhaps as time goes on, they'll feel they won't need it. People make/change their views at their own pace. And within spirituality, no-one is right, and no-one is wrong.

we should realise, idiots in government, and powerful positions, have abused and hijacked, and politicized, a common message..

To realise there is something greater than our individual self, and to be kind to everyone.

Take care
Wayne

[edit on 24-12-2008 by reiki]

Hi Wayne, thanks for your comments. Very well spoken. The only thing I question is about whether the muslims believe in the same God. I remember reading somewhere that Mohammed chose his god from a bunch of gods and he used the sun god. I'll freely admit I don't know what I'm talking about here..lol Does anyone recall ever reading anything like that or was it just bs I read somewhere. I have to do a little research on it. I may have picked that up off of a radical Christian site and you just can't trust that kinda stuff. Not trying to piss off any Muslims or anything, just stating something I heard and I will look for the answer. If anyone has a link that would be great, I'd love to read it.
Thanks again for your input brother...take care now.

Hi buddy,
I havn't came across that before. I'd suggest it is some kinda propoganda. I was a Muslim convert for some time, and was taught Allah is the name for God this is the same as the Christian & Judaic viewpoint. Although the other religions may not agree, hehe. After all, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, are also in the Qu'ran. Even today, in Arab nations, Christians use the world 'Allah' also. This is because in arabic, there is no other word to denote a supreme, omnipotent God. This is something that certain aspects of our media fail to let the 'masses' know.

Re: sun god. i can see why someone somewhere wrote this. There is a growing amount of stuff being made available, alluding also to christianity essentially being a sun worship religion. I'm researching it myself at the minute. I'm not gonna believe whatever new e-book, or video comes available on the web. These 'whistleblowers' typically say something about Christianity, that would rock it till the core. Additionally, the impact on western Goverments may be measurable also. Western goverments, are after all, Christian. Laws are made reflecting this. The way of life, is inextricably linked to this. Not to mention the potential civil unrest that would possbily ensue, when folks everyday core beliefs are challenged, they feel threatened. As any potential 'movement' against or leading away form religion grows, who knows what way it will manifest. That will depend on the puppet-masters. This isn't to say any such move is inherently bad, per se. I just wonder what way it'll all show itself.

This leads me to question some of the potential motives behind the folks who reveal this stuff to us.

Take care
Wayne

[edit on 26-12-2008 by reiki]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Cindy, and what if jesus never exiated, what then .

Well thank goodness we don't have to worry about that, because no matter what you have heard on here there is historical proof that Jesus existed. Now whether he was the son of God or not can be debated... but not his existence. The Romans kept detailed records and Christ is repeatably mentioned in them.

Originally posted by reiki

Originally posted by Alienmojo

Originally posted by reiki


To realise there is something greater than our individual self, and to be kind to everyone.

Take care
Wayne

[edit on 24-12-2008 by reiki]

This leads me to question some of the potential motives behind the folks who reveal this stuff to us.

Take care
Wayne

[edit on 26-12-2008 by reiki]

Hey Wayne, although I did find a web site that mentioned the sun-god and whatnot I totally agree with you on the possible motives for saying such a thing. I'd rather hear what a non-religious scholar has to say about this...but I have yet to find anything.

Religion is for people who can't believe in themselves. And since so many people are starting to believe, soon only lunatics and scared and primitive people will be part of religions. Oops, did I say soon? I meant now!
So, once there is no lunatics and scared primitive people, the religion will fall, and it's about #"$%& time.

The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
Arthur C. Clarke

Originally posted by MrMot
Religion is for people who can't believe in themselves. And since so many people are starting to believe, soon only lunatics and scared and primitive people will be part of religions. Oops, did I say soon? I meant now!
So, once there is no lunatics and scared primitive people, the religion will fall, and it's about #"$%& time.

The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
Arthur C. Clarke

So how soon is soon? Let's see... by my watch religion has been going on for thousands of years... ahh.. I don't think it will be leaving anytime soon. It would be better and more wise to attempt to clean it up than to attempt to abolish it.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to pick on you... but when you say religion is for people who don't believe in themselves you leave yourself open to attack because that is an incredibly unintelligent thing to say. It also hurts your argument because you lose all credibility when you say something that is intended to just be mean. Obviously most people who have religion believe in themselves. Just like obviously that most people who don't have religion believe in themselves.
All religion does is help define a person, show them a road that they wish to take to better themselves. Done correctly religion can be a good thing. I don't know what you have against religion, but it is evident that you have issues with it. Who really cares if one has religion or not as long as that person respects and cares for you... that is my point.

Originally posted by MrMot
Religion is for people who can't believe in themselves. And since so many people are starting to believe, soon only lunatics and scared and primitive people will be part of religions...

Hi,
that comment is elitist, and somewhat prejudicial, no offence. And, is the kind of view that started all the crap within religion, imo.

People will change within themselves when they feel ready. IF they feel ready. There is no right or wrong way in this. To allude to is to continue the polarisation effect that has belittled religion. And could surely not be progress in any form. It would simply move to another form.

Religion is meant to be a 'vehicle' in which a person can expereince spirituality & the divine. This is an incredibly self-empowering experience. However, these are just words to anyone that hasn't expereinced this. So they wouldn't realise thjis simple truth. :-) .

take care
Wayne





[edit on 26-12-2008 by reiki]

[edit on 26-12-2008 by reiki]

Alien , what do you mean if religion is domne properly, which model would you choose, how does one know if religion is done corectly or not. As we have only one working model then thats all we can use. From its inseption religion has been used to subvert and corrupt the minds of all those who come into contact with it. There are 2 types of religeuos followers, the placid lamb and the radical wolf.

Religion does 2 things it either renders humans totally subsevrvient to it or it renders them radical nut jobs who are ready to kill and die for their religion. That is the history of religion in one paragraph, religion to me is like a virus that has no known cure that all aare supsepatble to it and it has differnt effects on different people. For what ever good is achived by religion that good is dwarthed by the wrong doing of same. its alright to blame evil men that corrupt religion for their own ends but it does not just corrupt them it corrupts full stop.

Why preach to people that they are born sinners when they are not. You take a pure innocent lifeform and fill its head with hate, fear, racsim, superiority and eletism and for what purpose. There can be only one purpose and that is to control that individual. By means of indoctrination an individual has no choice, religion is rammed into the head of a child who has no choice.

There is nothing else in our lives that starts at birth as does religion and it begs the question why, why do young impresionable minds have to be filled with these stories because thats all they are stories nothing more nothing less. Nothing proven no facts just stories and out of those stories billions of people have been controlled manipulated and murdered a process that continues to this day.

And who profits from all this madness, the church in its various forms. Whilst millions have starved the church has sat back on its knowledge and wealth. I'm sorry to say it but the most destructive force on this planet for the last 2 k years has been religion. Men, women and children have died, been tortured and slain all in the name of religion. Religion has not just become corrupted by eveil dooers it has been thats way for millenia. History is strewn with the good works of religion, whole towns and villages wiped out land and wealth taken by the church and those they control.

Again the very same is happening today, 2 k years might have passed, technology has changed so much yet religion has not changed and people are still dying for it. As I said if a virus had killed as many people as religion has we would be doing sonmething about it but we don't and like lambs to the slaughter the process continues unabated. In the ME and all parts of the World the religeous killing machine marches ever forward harvesting more sinners and more souls.

The ruling elite have found the Bible to be an ideal blueprint for world domination. The Christian religion, in its very corrupted form as it is today, has very little to do with the real teachings of Jesus and very much to do with building a One World Government. This is particularly true with regard to fundamentalist or right-wing Christians who interpret the Bible literally and are filled with self-righteousness. It is the self-righteous ones that are responsible for many wars. They speak of love, but they are so intolerant of other people's beliefs that they are always ready to pounce and sometimes even harm any who think differently than they do. These people are so certain of their place in Heaven that they condemn all who disagree with them. They call those who disagree with them the spawn of Satan. Ironically, they are holding the seat for Satan.

Originally posted by Muundoggie
The ruling elite have found the Bible to be an ideal blueprint for world domination. The Christian religion, in its very corrupted form as it is today, has very little to do with the real teachings of Jesus and very much to do with building a One World Government. This is particularly true with regard to fundamentalist or right-wing Christians who interpret the Bible literally and are filled with self-righteousness. It is the self-righteous ones that are responsible for many wars. They speak of love, but they are so intolerant of other people's beliefs that they are always ready to pounce and sometimes even harm any who think differently than they do. These people are so certain of their place in Heaven that they condemn all who disagree with them. They call those who disagree with them the spawn of Satan. Ironically, they are holding the seat for Satan.

Well said , for sure.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Alien , what do you mean if religion is domne properly, which model would you choose, how does one know if religion is done corectly or not. As we have only one working model then thats all we can use. From its inseption religion has been used to subvert and corrupt the minds of all those who come into contact with it. There are 2 types of religeuos followers, the placid lamb and the radical wolf.

To me religion done properly is when the basic teachings of 'Love Thy Neighbor' are held up, no one is judging or condeming one another, and finally you don't shove your beliefs down people's throats who don't want to hear it and instead teach by example.

I've seen many working models of religion. I have been a member of 3 of them. One was too bent on rules and regulations that it forgot all about its real purpose. Another was too bent on making a buck to really care about its congregation, and still another was too judgemental.

Cults subvert and pervert minds, not true religions. From Jonestown to Mormons we see religions that hide secrets from their followers to subvert them and keep them placid. Religions like Catholism and Born-agains don't do that, per se. There are off-shoots of theses that do, but the basic religion doesn't.

True religion at its core is a good thing. It guides and strenthens us down a road we choose. A true religion teaches love and acceptance, not condemnation of those that don't believe as they do. When I say 'True' religion I only mean one that is done correctly. I do not believe that there is an actual 'TRUE RELIGION' that fits perfectly into God's will. Man's inherent stupidity will always render that imperfect.

I hope that explains a little better what I am talking about brother. Thanks again for your posts.

Originally posted by Muundoggie
The ruling elite have found the Bible to be an ideal blueprint for world domination. The Christian religion, in its very corrupted form as it is today, has very little to do with the real teachings of Jesus and very much to do with building a One World Government. This is particularly true with regard to fundamentalist or right-wing Christians who interpret the Bible literally and are filled with self-righteousness. It is the self-righteous ones that are responsible for many wars. They speak of love, but they are so intolerant of other people's beliefs that they are always ready to pounce and sometimes even harm any who think differently than they do. These people are so certain of their place in Heaven that they condemn all who disagree with them. They call those who disagree with them the spawn of Satan. Ironically, they are holding the seat for Satan.

Oh Muundoggie, how I love you. You haven't seen Annette anywhere, have you? ...say down by the beach? LOL Ok.. I love your post because I am one of those fundamentalists. I didn't realize I was part of the NWO or that I was starting wars. I promise you that I will stop that immediately.
Seriously though, and I'm only kidding with you brother...not trying to make you mad. I do realize you say the 'self-righteous' ones... and I have seen plenty of those in my time. That was my whole point of this thread saying that if we go back to the basics of 'love thy neighbor' and forget about shoving our beliefs down peoples throats and just showing others our beliefs by example... then it would be a better place.
Maybe its time we 'true' followers took back our religions and shoved the self-righteous out the door. I'm not sure if that is possible, but I'd love to see Jerry Falwell looking for a new job...maybe at the burger king down my block.
But brother let me asure you, that there are plenty of us out there that believe as I do. Good Christians that would rather help you than beat you down with our beliefs. I never talk God unless asked. I may tell you the reason I did something was to glorify the Father...but that's it. If you have questions about it I will explain...but only then. I never knock on doors or anything like that... instead I try to bring Christ to people by emulating Him in how I live my life. I think that shows more than a knock at the door or stupid tracts ever could.

I hope that at least shows you that we aren't all like thsose self-righteous bozos. Thanks again for your posts brother and take care.

God and science go together better than God and religion! And I am A FIRM BELIEVER IN GOD, and JESUS!! By the way! Religion isnt all bad But it is of man! God created man, man created religion! but God is always in control and that is THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Alienmojo

Originally posted by Muundoggie

If God is pure love...
[edit on 23-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

Many people view the Old Testament that way and I completely understand what you are saying and why. I however, completely disagree with it and I'll tell you why.

Remember, the Old Testament God WAS vengeful because the people of that time needed a vengeful God. After Christ came the time for a vengeful God was over with. Now God showed his Love for mankind by sending down his only begotten son. Mankind had matured to the point that they didn't need to be punished to learn. Look at it like we were children learning from our Father in the Old Testament and as children we were punished. Then as we grew more mature and older we no longer needed punishment to learn and thusly we could learn thru love.

I hope that helps a bit.

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Alienmojo]

The religion is a very male dominant place, and pure love is not only male...

And Christ was God's son, ok, but where is his Mom? or the stork ...

I think religion is important, yes, we need it to meet and show love, and everybody decides if he is a good or a bad person.

So when someones said he killed in Christ name, he was a weird psycho = made by hate = not good
A real loving religion man would not fear that someone takes his/her religion

In fact the Septuaguinta ( = 70 , from Aristea's letter, who was an egypt Jewish , Wikipedia )
is the oldest form of the Old testament, which was from Hellenism (Greek ! ) translated by Jewish into Hebraic 4./3. ante Cristus - the Tanach

..and Alexander the Great was living around that time, the famous Hindukush ...hush hush lol

love love love

Alien, don't you see I don't need religion to love my fellow man, to respect people, to be open to diverse ways and traditions or heritage. I don't need it to obey the laws of the land or anything else. I hold thsoe values not because of religion but because of the way I was brought up and educated.

No one needs the religion we have to day it does nothing but to continue disharmony between people. It was never the interntion of the religeous leaders to have us all hugging and kissing, no quite the opposite.

The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion.
Arthur C. Clarke

I'd certainly agree with that comment -Arthur C Clarke was a very wise chap.
Of course you do not need to belong to a religious sect/cult to have respect or admiration for your fellow man ....and any organised institution that says 'their way is the only way' is just spouting off well rehearsed (and very predictable) religious propaganda to bolster their attendance numbers.

I think one of the most telling quotes I've heard about organised religion is that its just a very convenient way to feel superior to others.



[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Alien, don't you see I don't need religion to love my fellow man, to respect people, to be open to diverse ways and traditions or heritage. I don't need it to obey the laws of the land or anything else. I hold thsoe values not because of religion but because of the way I was brought up and educated.

No one needs the religion we have to day it does nothing but to continue disharmony between people. It was never the interntion of the religeous leaders to have us all hugging and kissing, no quite the opposite.

Yes, I absolutely see your lack of need for it. I wasn't suggesting that all need it. I'm only suggesting those that already use it would make it better if they would do as you suggest and love their fellow man and respect all. I hope that makes sense to you. I would never suggest that everyone needed it.