Earth not center of the Universe, but is surrounded by 'Dark Energy'?

I found this quite interesting, ive heard quite a few people on here say that dark matter/energy/flow, blackholes and such are ridiculous ideas/theories to be putting forward. Personally I'll be keeping my eggs in separate baskets, accordingly

ScienceDaily (Dec. 23, 2008)
Polish astronomer Nicolaus Copernicus's 1543 book, On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres, moved Earth from being the centre of the Universe to just another planet orbiting the Sun.

Since then, astronomers have extended the idea and formed the Copernican Principle, which says that our place in the Universe as a whole is completely ordinary. Although the Copernican Principle has become a pillar of modern cosmology, finding conclusive evidence that our neighbourhood of the Universe really isn't special has proven difficult.

In 1998, studies of distant explosions called "type Ia supernovae" indicated that the expansion of the Universe is accelerating, an observation attributed to the repulsive force of a mysterious "dark energy." However, some scientists put forward an alternate theory:-

They proposed that the Earth was near the centre of a giant "bubble," or "void," mostly empty of matter, and strongly violating the Copernican Principle. If this were the case, gravity would create the illusion of acceleration, mimicking the effect of dark energy on the supernova observations.

Now some advanced analysis and modeling performed by UBC post-doctoral fellows Jim Zibin and Adam Moss and Astronomy Prof. Douglas Scott is showing that this alternate "void theory" just doesn't add up. Read Full Story here - Source

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Whats everyone elses thoughts on everything dark?
[edit: fixed url]

ps. The thread title was 0.5% my own idea, yes

[edit on 23-12-2008 by enduser]

Hey enduser,
Thought I would share a thread I had created about scientists finding out, or at considering that the dark matter is a lot older than originally thought, though it is only speculation, I have to acknowledge that there is more her than meets the , (That wasn't a pun. Dark Matter, the eye...)

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

I find the subject intriguing and mystifying at the same time, we are finding out more and more as time eclipses known knowledge. Guess we will have to wait and see though.

Dark energy is not only far, far away, but you can experience it right here on earth.

It's everywhere.

I never understood why scientists would send satellites millions of miles away to study "dark energy" when we have all you want right here on earth, and you can grab all you want, right on the bench.

reply to post by dooper


Well on the bench you have so many other things that are gonna influence your findings - thousands of miles away in space you can limit, or predict the other influences and then your data is better.

And OP... the thread title?... did you really think the Earth was in the centre of the universe

Reply to: once again has failed!!!

Dooper,

I wholeheartedly agree with you that dark matter exist everywhere imaginable, but the finding's they are coming up with of the first assumption that the black matter issue had been quantified, it turns out it may very well be at 2X older than the known Universe itself, which would imply that there was a greater and more unaccepted possibility of force than anticipated from the very beginning of the Universe, and that kind of changes the "Quantifying" analogy of dark matter.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

"Nothing like a bit more studying, HEH!!"

reply to post by Now_Then


Now this is funny!!

And OP... the thread title?... did you really think the Earth was in the centre of the universe?

I surely hope not, there could be a lot of visitors to this thread for sheer enjoyment!!!

Now_Then, "You kill me!!!"

Nowthen,

The dark energy on the bench is the same dark energy five hundred million light years away.

It acts the same, it extracts the same, and it can be used the same.

The truth is, our own physicists don't know enough to extract it right here on earth. They don't read their own literature.

They seek funding.

It's all about funding.

Not science.

The chicken IS the egg?
The following is my own hypothesis...copied from another post here

It's been recently realized that 72% of our known universe is made up of dark energy (not to be confused with dark matter, which makes up 21%)
Visible matter only makes up about 7%

Could we be space itself?
Here are a couple things to consider
E=mc2
Photons have no mass, however they have energy.
If our universe began with the “big bang”, and was hot and dense, yet we're only seeing remnants of that in the form of microwaves, where did all that energy go? Obviously a big bang would have been hot and bright, in gamma wave lengths or even shorter.
Conservation of energy tells us that energy doesn't go away, it simply changes form.

What's missing? ENERGY

Hubble constant... The farther a galaxy is away from us, the faster it is moving away.
(the farther back in time you go, more space has been created between galaxies)

What's extra? SPACE

Astronomers (2 different camps) discovered something strange. While trying to determine the rate at which the expansion of the universe was decreasing they realized, to their utter dis-belief, that it's actually speeding up!
Most are in agreement that our visible universe is 13.7 billion years old, since the “big bang”.

Something Bizarre!

When they took further measurements, they realized at around 9 billion years of age, the rate of expansion that was DECREASING turned around and started SPEEDING UP!

What could cause this?

Perhaps the dominating factor during a certain period , due to energy and distance could be the culprit.

DOMINANCE
A - Big Bang ... Kinetic Energy - Extremely fast expansion until...
B - Mass Clumped, clearing took place and gravity took over, slowing the the expansion rate until...
C – galaxies were far enough apart that gravity couldn't continue the slowing of the expansion and it began speeding up again due to the energy unwinding back into space.


What could this mean for the future of our universe?

Well... If I'm correct, and energy is just a bunch of scrunched up space, the expansion of the universe could slowly come to a stop once the CMB radiation unwinds back into space itself. Perhaps it will slowly start to collapse again, causing the big crunch and even another “Big Bang”. Who knows, maybe it could equalize into a constant.
(Imagine how much space you'd have to squeeze into a ball in order to create a photon of light, or an electron)
Remember black holes? Obviously nobody knows what happens beyond the “event horizon” which light can't even escape. Theorists imagine everything getting shoved down into a singularity! Perhaps that's how mass or energy is created! If a black hole jammed enough space into a point, then it was released in the form of energy.....

Remember the “conservation of energy”? Even when an exited electron orbiting a nucleus makes it's “quantum leap”, losing energy (returning to it's normal state), it can emit a photon of light.
Energy can be converted into Mass, (and vice versa)

A couple things to consider..
The closer you look at an atom, the more it looks like nothing.
Whatever happens in the realm if the very small, is anyone's guess. It's taken scientists 30 years to get from 10-16m to 10-17m. (that's really, really tiny) Hence you end up with lots of theories, including 5 different versions of string theory, the M theory, the Grand Unified Theory, The Standard Model, Supersymmetry and it goes on and on and on.
That's why they created the LHC.
Apparently they'll be searching for clues, like the higgs-boson, the last piece of the puzzle to the Standard Model, or evidence of the graviton (in search of other dimensions).

When you utilize sharp EM gradients, and have a circuit that can "catch" the immediate splash from the local space/time, you can extract volumes of this "dark energy" in milliseconds.

And while I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever, I would suggest that the 7% figure is probably high.

The vacume is very much not empty.

It is only "dark" becouse we can not "detect" it but we know its there, why do we know its there?? becouse our brain is logical and can detect it...

some people get lost in all the maths and the wizbang wizzordy of it all..

we are inside and object .... we know that! time space and everthing we understand is Inside something.. the something?? im mind something thats alive

so what is dark matter? its the fabric that holds it all together "pure" energy" everything els is just the dots u see that it connects

hope that helps ; )

by jove sherlock i think u have it!

reply to post by lernmore


I like the very first line of your statement

The chicken is the egg and what do i mean by that?

We are in something alive is what i mean

Check out my thread on are we in something alive part 2 should help use the search function.

Originally posted by dooper
Nowthen,

The dark energy on the bench is the same dark energy five hundred million light years away.

It acts the same, it extracts the same, and it can be used the same.

The truth is, our own physicists don't know enough to extract it right here on earth. They don't read their own literature.

They seek funding.

It's all about funding.

Not science.

The truth is, our own physicists don't know enough to extract it right here on earth. They don't read their own literature.

And I will give you the reason why,, MATHS is the problem its to logical and based on loops and LIFE as we know it is not..

Think of DNA not maths you see our problem? we never caluclate LIFE into any sum.

We dont understand the question so we will never have the true answer untill we start asking the right question..

Does not matter how we got here. Understand IT dont Question it

[edit on 23-12-2008 by theresult]

[edit on 23-12-2008 by theresult]

I'm very sorry, but one part is incorrect.

We are extracting dark energy right now. Gobs of it.

This is exactly why we can take 8 AAA batteries and input a small sharp gradient, and at the target , extract 12V, 600 amps.

Less than one watt input for the gradient and switching, and once you open that gate, 7,200 watts rushes in.

Done. Being done. Right now.

I heard this on NPR Science Friday last week. Ira had a guest who was obviously an expert explain all of this. I am sure the interview is archived if anyone wants to listen to it.

But......the guy talked way above my head. I think what he was trying to say (hell, I'm not really sure) but I think he meant that there is a force with dark energy. It is pulling and stretching, it is everywhere, and it is unknown what it is, but it is measurable.

Sooooo.......they don't know what it is. They think/know that it is everywhere in the universe and they think it's pulling and pushing, etc, and it's measureable. Also that it is invisible.


Also, they were saying that this could possibly disprove Einstein's theory of relativity. His theory works in most models but not in this one.

This is some very complicated stuff..

I also got from the interview that if they can tell what it is that this is a HUGE deal. The hand of God and all of that. Amazing stuff really.

reply to post by lernmore


When they took further measurements, they realized at around 9 billion years of age, the rate of expansion that was DECREASING turned around and started SPEEDING UP!


Did you ever see a embryo devied?? ; )

its not infinite its just HUGE

oops my bad, I was pulling those numbers off the top of my head, guess it's been a while since I looked at the data.

Nasa's new numbers

More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the Universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 70% of the Universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 25%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the Universe. Come to think of it, maybe it shouldn't be called "normal" matter at all, since it is such a small fraction of the Universe.

reply to post by uplander


its not complex...

dont let them boggle ur poor mind with wizzy numbers n statements that dont make any sens what so ever..

Look the point is we are in something alive its speeding up becouse the thing is growing.. its common sens logic maths will never get us were we want to go becouse its flawed... we never understand that we are a reflection of life yes LIFE DAMMIT we are blooming alive becouse the universe is...

Now understanding that gets u someplace i tried about 20 years to get my head round.. dark matter is just the fabric of the BIG thing we are in its some special thing its just understand what its roll is..

Just think about living inside something huge like a cell "the universe" is growing and devieding..

simple is simple as.

I try not to get big headed about it but question maths sir becouse we are not even in it..

That's one mistake of our physicists. Relying solely on mathematical proofs.

Yet anyone whose ever measured an event, even a business, knows that there are pluses, and negatives, and just because they average to a plus number does not indicate what is really going on.

Our physicists are looking at a snapshot which is the "average." They mathematically discount the negatives, since the average is positive.

Thus, they have no idea of what is actually going on.

reply to post by dooper


lol very well said I dont think I could have said it better.



They have NO clue becouse we are asking the wrong questions!!!!! and even more stupid is using maths to find it...

Perhaps nothingness likes to acquire something?
Where there is lots of nothing, maybe lots of something gets sucked into it, into the vaccuum.

Has anyone actually proven dark matter, or is it all just theory?

Here's a nutty theory, what if all this stuff is sucked toward a bigger mass, we just can't see it, it's too dark.
But, but, but, ...I guess that would make it dark matter?

Is it mass that just isn't lit up, or is it nothing they made up into something?

What's their definition of it?


Something else, what if the portion of our Universe that Big banged (apparently) blew up in a giant ring of matter, all the heavy masses got flung farthest out, and us, (we) are more toward the middle where there is less matter and everything is getting pulled toward the ring, us being in the middlish part see this as accelerating expansion?

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[edit on 23-12-2008 by Toadmund]