Originally posted by asmeone2
It is an understatement, I think, to say that many Christians beleive that homosexuality is the m ost offensive sin. (snip)

Wrong...

Most Christians I know consider homosexuality to be a sin...not THE sin like the media and a couple fringe groups that get a lot of press would have you think.

Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (Matthew 22:37-39)

Loving your neighbor means just that....it doesn't mean to love only those that do not sin or none of us would be worthy of love. I mean this is the most basic of Christian ideals and it came directly for the mouth of Jesus.



[edit on 12/23/2008 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Griff

I (as a gay man) can reproduce if I want to while 20% of the population who are sterile can't (even if they want to). Does this make me more "natural" than them?

Ok perfect, now I can ask... you being a gay man..how can you reproduce WITHOUT a woman or her egg? Can you and your bf or husband create life on your own? Just you two, no help from science or labs, etc...can you guys decide to have a baby and then go and create one?

I am asking because I CANNOT see another way..unless you ask science to create one for you.

Originally posted by rcwj75
STU....sure they can in a LAB. But not even science can take 2 females or 2 males and mix this and that to create a life. They NEED both sets of chromosomes to accomplish life.

How do you figure when a female is XX? Where does the Y come into play?

A hermaphroditic plant will produce seeds, but those seeds will never grow into male plants. Only hermaphroditic or female.

there is also not one saying that you should not do it with cats, or dogs, or goats, or ... . to specify all, it would be a long book then, instead of 10 commandments. but there are written few which are showing what you can not do with your WIFE!

I think it is enough.

Leviticus 18:20

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

The fact that God says it is an abomination means that it is a sin. Period. No, we are not to judge each other, that is left to God on judgement day. You should still love thy neighboor (but not that way) and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I have known lots of gay people and they are still people. Just because they are gay doesn't mean that I don't like them, I just don't agree with their lifestyle. Again, it is not my place to judge them.

Originally posted by rcwj75
Ummm..this has nothing to do with homosexuality and it being a sin. This has to do with MEDICAL issues where people who TRY to have offspring can't. So if you wanna bash religion for something make sure you have a legitimate argument. Cause this ain't it.

Ummm...what happens when homosexuality is confirmed as a medical issue and not a choice? Which it pretty much has been even though you people would rather it wasn't.

Originally posted by czacza
there is also not one saying that you should not do it with cats, or dogs, or goats, or ... . to specify all, it would be a long book then, instead of 10 commandments. but there are written few which are showing what you can not do with your WIFE!

I think it is enough.

Leviticus 18:23

"Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion."

It's all covered.

Leviticus states that these are ordinances, hence laws.

Originally posted by Griff

Ummm...what happens when homosexuality is confirmed as a medical issue and not a choice? Which it pretty much has been even though you people would rather it wasn't.

I don't believe it will be. Now of course it may be accepted that way just by popular demand. Just like becoming an alcoholic or drug addict is now a disease, even though its complete BS. You CHOOSE to drink, just like you CHOOSE to try/do drugs..and I honestly believe you CHOOSE who you want to have relations with. NOT born that way. IMO.

I am sorry griff, you seem like a good guy, and I WON'T and never will judge gays on their lifestyle...thats not my place, its gods...but I cannot agree with the lifestyle. To each their own, and I hope you and other homosexuals are happy with your life....its to short not to be.

My bottom line is this: A man and woman can lay down together and without any help..can create a new life. Two men CANNOT have sex and create life, neither can two women. And to me that means it was NEVER intended.

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
its covered in the 10th one:

Exodus 20:17, KJV

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

all the best.

Thank you for injecting a wonderful note of levity into a subject that is so often fraught with the worst examples of man's inhumanity to man.

For you, not just a star, but a fabulous one!

Originally posted by rcwj75
Ok perfect, now I can ask... you being a gay man..how can you reproduce WITHOUT a woman or her egg? Can you and your bf or husband create life on your own? Just you two, no help from science or labs, etc...can you guys decide to have a baby and then go and create one?

I am asking because I CANNOT see another way..unless you ask science to create one for you.

At least i have the ability to procreate with a woman if I want to. Can you say that about the 20% sterile men out there? Without the help from a lab/science?

Originally posted by rcwj75

Originally posted by Griff

Ummm...what happens when homosexuality is confirmed as a medical issue and not a choice? Which it pretty much has been even though you people would rather it wasn't.

I don't believe it will be. Now of course it may be accepted that way just by popular demand. Just like becoming an alcoholic or drug addict is now a disease, even though its complete BS. You CHOOSE to drink, just like you CHOOSE to try/do drugs..and I honestly believe you CHOOSE who you want to have relations with. NOT born that way. IMO.

I am sorry griff, you seem like a good guy, and I WON'T and never will judge gays on their lifestyle...thats not my place, its gods...but I cannot agree with the lifestyle. To each their own, and I hope you and other homosexuals are happy with your life....its to short not to be.

My bottom line is this: A man and woman can lay down together and without any help..can create a new life. Two men CANNOT have sex and create life, neither can two women. And to me that means it was NEVER intended.

Did you *choose* to find woman attractive or was it biological and inate?..did you think hmmm that guy looks sexy,but so does that woman,i'll have to choose and make a choice, no? didn't think so....

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Solomons]

Originally posted by secretstash
Leviticus 18:20

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

So, does this make all women abominations?

There are all kinds of "commandments" from the Lord Almighty, and not all of them made it to the Top 10. And as important as those may be, there is still quite a disagreement both within and without the Bible as to exactly what those Top 10 are.

Jesus, the Son of Man himself, could only come up with seven or so off the top of his head.

My thought about the 10 Commandments is, "If they're so great, why haven't they caught on by now?"

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by secretstash
Leviticus 18:20

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

So, does this make all women abominations?

ROFL

No, it means men shall not lie with men, as women shall not lie with women.

But we could be classified as abominations at least once a month!

Originally posted by secretstash
Leviticus 18:23

"Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion."

It's all covered.

Leviticus states that these are ordinances, hence laws.

26 ‘You shall not eat anything with the blood, nor shall you practice divination or soothsaying. 27 You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard. 28 You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the LORD.

Do you eat anything that is rare?

Do you shave your beard?

Have any tatoos?

10And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Eat any shellfish?

9Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

And my favorite of all.

Do you take communion?

"Do not drink wine when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation"

Seems like all Christians are abominations to me.

Originally posted by rcwj75
My bottom line is this: A man and woman can lay down together and without any help..can create a new life. Two men CANNOT have sex and create life, neither can two women. And to me that means it was NEVER intended.

You must be pretty darn sure of yourself to claim God's intent. Maybe his intent was for homosexuals to curb the heteros from overpopulating the land? Bottom line is neither you nor me has the answer to this.