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Madoff, Banking Bailout and the Mob?

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posted on Dec, 23 2008 @ 09:05 PM
Rudy's connected to the Mafia, he was just locking up people from the other families that's all.

posted on Dec, 23 2008 @ 10:47 PM
reply to post by Phazon

I have been reading through this blog and a few others to see if anyone has picked up on a very important link in the career of Bernie Madoff; that is his connection to the Israeli intelligence agency, Massod.
Just as our own CIA used money raised from their coc aine trafficking business back in the 80's & 90's (and perhaps still do), the Massod has been using Madoff's fund raising as a major source of funding for their own "black ops". That explains the missing billions and the ability of Bernie to operate under the radar of the U S Security Exchange which may also be infiltrated with Massod agents.
This story may go well beyond the "Mafia" influence - IF the facts are ever released to the public. It already appears that the new administration will be very careful not to alienate the Israelis even though Pres Obama intends to attempt to repair the relations with the Muslim world. Exposing the fraud perpetrated by Madoff as having a connection to Israel might not be a smart political move even if that is where the facts begin to lead us.

posted on Dec, 23 2008 @ 11:20 PM
Madoff's $50bn Ponzi Scheme Fraud: 'Clawback' Rule Might Come Back To Hurt Luckier Investors

Disclosed investor losses so far amount to $36bn (real-time Bloomberg chart)

Dec 23: A so-called clawback of paid-out funds in the Madoff liquidation could result in lawsuits by trustee Irving Picard against investors such as charities, hedge funds and individuals who redeemed profits and took out principal within the past 6 years and share it among the victims--> In a similar case, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Adlai Hardin in White Plains, New York, ordered investors of defunct hedge-fund manager Bayou Group LLC in October to disgorge profits they’d taken out. Investors were required to pay back any gains they’d redeemed involving “fictitious profits.”

Dec 17 Cox: "Our initial findings have been deeply troubling. The Commission has learned that credible and specific allegations regarding Mr. Madoff’s financial wrongdoing, going back to at least 1999, were repeatedly brought to the attention of SEC staff, but were never recommended to the Commission for action. "

Dec 16: Disclosed losses amount to more than $32bn and counting (Bloomberg table)

Dec 16 FT: Madoff received much of his funding from funds of hedge funds that operate 'feeder funds': these funds of funds are paid by investors to perform due diligence and allocate money among approved managers. Typically, funds of hedge funds charge a 1 per cent management fee and take 0-10 per cent of the profits. This would be in addition to the fees charged by the underlying hedge funds – which usually take a 2 per cent management fee plus 20 per cent of the profits, above a certain level (i.e. high watermarks.) In many cases funds of funds paid banks for channeling money to the former's feeder funds.

Dec 16: In a clear signal of how much the fraud allegedly perpetrated by Bernard L. Madoff may have hurt the hedge fund industry, the Credit Suisse/Tremont Hedge Fund Index fell 4.15% in November, far more than the preliminary estimation of a 0.7% decline issued last week, as the index included funds exposed to Bernard L. Madoff in the finalized numbers.
Largest losses reported so far include: Fairfield Greenwich ($7.5bn) whose agreement to merge with Swiss private bank Benedict Hentsch is now terminated; Banco Santander ($3.1bn); Kingate ($3.1bn); Ascot and Access partner, each $1.8bn; HSBC and Tremont, each $1bn (see below for more details on who's affected)

In a regulatory filing in January, Bernard Madoff’s firm listed $17 billion in assets under management. Madoff told his sons last week he had as much as $300 million left, according to an SEC lawsuit filed in federal court in Manhattan.

Dec 15: The cost of protecting corporate bonds from default rose on concern that the confession of an 'at least' $50 billion fraud (Lex) by investment manager Madoff may trigger forced selling by hedge funds and reinforce the run on hedge fund assets as clients seek to close investments

Bloomberg: Dec 15: Federal investigators found evidence Madoff ran an unregistered money-management business alongside his firm’s brokerage and investment-advisory subsidiaries. Clients of the undisclosed unit may have included hedge funds.

Regulatory Issues
Supposition is that Madoff's fund was a giant Ponzi scheme, with returns funded by new investors. But if that is the case, Madoff must have been raising hundreds of millions of dollars a month to achieve his alleged returns of about 10% a year (Lex)
Downfall came when some investors actually asked for their money back, as they now will from a host of other funds.

naked capitalism: The SEC, via its own protocols, should have inspected the Madoff Ponzi operation prior to end of 2007 and failed to. Why? Evidently, due to Madoff's good reputation in the industry

Securities Investor Protection Corp (SIPC) - a nonprofit funded by the securities industry to aid investors affected by failed firms - could start process of liquidating the Madoff brokerage firm any day. SIPC covers some losses up to $500,000 per customer in limited cases, but it's unclear the extent to which SIPC will cover investment adviser accounts

Who's affected?
Largest losses reported so far include: Fairfield Greenwich ($7.5bn); Banco Santander ($3.1bn); Kingate ($3.1bn); Ascot and Access partner, each $1.8bn; HSBC and Tremont, each $1bn

French bank BNP said it could lose as much as €350 million; it is exposed through its trading business and lending to hedge funds that had invested in Madoff's funds

Royal Bank of Scotland and Man Group outlined potential exposures of £400m and $360m, respectively, to Madoff’s alleged $50bn fraud
Swiss private bank Reichmuth & Co. said its clients had an exposure of some 385 million Swiss francs to Madoff funds. The bank said Reichmuth Matterhorn, a fund that invests in other hedge funds, faced a potential loss of about 8.6% on its exposure to Madoff funds.
EIM Group, European investment manager with about $11 bn in assets, reportedly had a number of non-U.S. investors in funds overseen by Madoff. EIM assets at risk are reportedly less than 2% of what it manages

Mr. Zuckerman, the chairman of real-estate firm Boston Properties and owner of the New York Daily News and U.S. News & World Report, had significant exposure through a fund that invested substantially all of its assets with Madoff

Spielberg charity, Wunderkinder Foundation, appears to have invested a significant portion of its assets with Mr. Madoff, based on past regulatory filings

Jewish schools and charities


Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities, founded in 1960, has long handled stock trades for banks and investment houses. In recent years, the firm has also expanded its business managing money for wealthy individuals and institutions - and it's that operation now swept up in scandal. Despite common ownership, the two businesses were reportedly largely kept separate (WSJ)

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 02:51 AM
reply to post by Crakeur
He cut his wrists and took sleeping pills. No gun.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 06:59 AM
I can not imagin the karma that will fall upon thoes who do such evil as war and 911 .It is indeed a sad state of affairs,such a dramatic senario.People tend to think of karma as a religious thing but the truth is it is a scientific fact,and except for religion simply accepting it as a fact karma is based in very obvious science.It is a very observent sensitive mechanisum that is difficult (almost impossible )to avoid and can affect us based on any action from squshing a spider to murdering a bunch of innocent defenceless people.Many people do not believe in karma.I suggest they could be clouded in guilt and the disbelife is a product of the guilt.A good way to see how real it is may be to watch what befalls thoes who do evil.Even if you wanted to you could not prevent the results of some ones actions.Throw a ball up in the air and watch it fall to the ground.fill a cup with water and then dump it out,or drink it,Gravity is used frequently to discribe situations.I do not think this is unintentional.Though Ido not think we are all going to come back as cows (thou this would probally serve us all right)I do belive our actions do not go unjustified even in the absents of any and all laws and legal systems man has in place to counter act crime.Guilt can render a man sleepless and such depravation will surely create insatbility in any human eventually.Karma can turn into a vecious circle for thoes who particapate in evil.Best to live your life on as stright a path as possible and when evil tries to approch you or affects your resuming do not respond except in direct self defence ,If the evil negatively alters your life and there is nothing you can do about it legally,Take heed to just sit back and WATCH what will eventually befall the evil doer even in absents of any revenge on your part nor dose any law or legal syatem need to be involved in any way.It is quiet remarkable in a society such as ours that more people are not aware that our existence is based on an unrealised ballance of good and evil,up and down ,in and out,What goes around comes back around and no man nor law can prevent this .It just is.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 07:53 AM
a member (his son actually) u2u'd me with some names. the first thing I googled came up with another interesting hit.

Michael Mukasey, former AG in charge of Madoff, who's son is representing Frank DiPascali, had this to say back in April of 2008:

They are expanding their holdings in these sectors, which corrupts the normal functioning of these markets and may have a destabilizing effect on U.S. geopolitical interests

The they he is talking about? Crime groups operating as mobsters without borders:

The groups launder billions of dollars through U.S. financial institutions, and invest profits in publicly traded companies.

Is it possible ole Bernie was running low on funds as mobsters started taking more from him?
Perhaps he was laundering money for some group of gangsters and his normal stream of investors dried up and his hedge fund redemptions increased, resulting in his inability to carry on the scam.

Bernie has, apparently, had numerous death threats to him and his family. Is it possible that the change in his bail from curfew to 24 hour house arrest is actually meant to protect him from some irate gangsters who might want to silence him before he spills the beans?

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Crakeur]

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 08:02 AM
This is big stuff...

You got to work hard and long to make that mind of money disapear...

Madoff is not the top guy... He is just someone what is taking the fall right now for other forces...

This guy Madoff needs to be thrown off his 10$ dollar aprtment...

We need to wake up tomorrow and see that old uncle Bernie 'Sucided' himself...

Madoff is just taking the Fall... and he is doing Cozy in his nice Palace...

And still... not one person who was responsible for ANY OF THE Curuption, and political messes, has had even a Dollar taken away...
Or spent a second in jail...


They own everything... They own the guy that is supposed to be watching them...

This guy Madoff had family that was marreid into the SEC...

This is big stuff...
This is bigger and more entertaining the fiction...

20 years from now, theres going to be some entertaining stoires to tell, some good movies, and novels...

But for now, we are trying to unwrap the truth through the web of lies and distractions their cohorts are giving us

This is not over... this entire thing is only getting started...

The Bush Bailouts

Its all connected...

And it is all designed to be robbing the people, of their God Given rights, thruogh our US constitution...

We are only seeing the Shadows on the Wall

And that is my caption for 2008

We are only seeing the Shadows on the Wall, of the play that is being acted out, that is the decline of the American world... just shadows on the wall...

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 10:30 AM
And the connections get closer.

Who is Robert Jaffe? Robert Jaffe was the Vice Preisdent of Cohmad Securities Corp which was owned by Madoff ('mad") and Sammy Cohen (coh). The company was, apparently, set up to bring investors into Madoff Securities and their office in NYC was on the same floor as Bernie's. Close quarters for sure.

And who, you might ask, is Robert Jaffe and why does it matter?

Well, Jaffe was known as "the man to see" if you wanted to get in with Madoff. Jaffe worked out of Boston and Palm Beach and was a well known figure amongst the wealthy elite.

I was recently told of how he attended a function at his country club in Florida and how he wound up being confronted by one of the many irate, bilked investors who wanted to know how he could show his face at the club. As I was told, the men had to be physically restrained.

Here's some info on Jaffe:

Jaffe's involvement didn't just involve the wealthy, elite, he was also involved with Boston mob leader Gennaro Angiulo in the 70's. They followed Jaffe from E.F. Hutton to Cowen & Co and when they were indicted on racketeering it came to light that Cowen & Co failed to report large deposits into their brokerage accounts. Cowen and Jaffe were never implicated in the crime but Jaffe did have this to say when he was questioned about it back in 1985 "a brokerage account for the Angiulos had been "initiated," but no money had ever been deposited and no transactions enacted." So, he claims that his mafia clients opened accounts but never funded them. Then, two weeks later, it was reported that an unidentified representative from Cowen & Co. acknowledged the company had in fact received money from the Angiulos, who maintained nine accounts with the firm.

Was Jaffe clueless as to what his clients were doing with the accounts he managed? Was he covering up for the mob? Probably the latter. His loyalty was probably rewarded, his reputation as someone you can trust probably grew and he might very well still hve been involved as their investment adviser. Why would the "family" leave him?

Now, as we all know, the SEC and the Feds are estimating thousands of investors were screwed by Madoff and anyone who was robbed by this petty thief would want to cause him physical harm but how many would go so far as to actually send him a threatening warning of imminent death? Everyone, at one time or another, has wished harm on someone who has wronged them. Many of us have said "I'm going to ...kill you" but it takes a rare breed to contact someone who has been arrested and is being watched by the feds, who's every move is being monitored, who's every call is being tapped and make a death threat. It takes a special someone, with a background in death to make threats so ominous that they include the man who walked off with their money as well as family members. One source close to the investigation has said "Bernie has been told that if he doesn't cough up every dime he has hidden in offshore accounts, someone in his family will be killed." Now, if you or I were bilked, we'd want to exact revenge for sure. If we were the violent type, we'd want to lash out at Bernie, get 5 minutes alone with him and hurt him. But threaten to off a family member? Who does that? Well, I can name one group of people that have been known to kill someone else in an effort to get their primary target to do what they want.

So, now, Bernie is out on bail, even though he couldn't get one person to vouch for him as part of he bail agreement. Shortly after he was released, given a lovely new ankle bracelet and told to be home before curfew, the judge changed the conditions of his bail. He is now under house arrest. There can be only one reason for this. Protection. They want him safe and sound. Why? Perhaps he has already offered up some connected friends who were involved in the scam. Perhaps the folks who threatened to harm his family members are afraid that Bernie will sing in an effort to keep his family from going to prison with him. The type of threat mentioned above doesn't come from an angry investor. It comes from a serious criminal experienced in harming people. Someone who knows you don't kill the man with your money, you kill his wife in an effort to force the man to comply with your demands.

Bernie's threats and house arrest:

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 03:20 PM
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

I read about this too but I didn't gave it a lot of attention, but now that you bring the issue with a twist it kind of make sense.

Like I said before, more and more many of the true colors of Madoff investments is going to come out.

But I wonder how much will actually make it to the news and how many will actually be prosecuted.

Indeed in order for Madoff to get away with what he did he needed resources that were either faithful, trustworthy or very close to US security in order to by pass many of the dirties deals.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 03:48 PM
Well here are the names of some of the hedge funds that became victims to the Madoff Ponzi scam, in case this has not been posted before.

The two most prominent hedge funds that invested with Madoff were the $7.3 billion Fairfield Sentry, run by Walter Noel's Fairfield Greenwich Group, and the $2.8 billion Kingate Global Fund, run by Kingate Management.

Fairfield Sentry and Kingate Global were among a small group of hedge funds to report positive returns for 2008; the average hedge fund was down 18 percent, according to data from Hedge Fund Research.

Interesting that this two groups showed positives returns in 2008 I wonder how they are doing right now.

Now for the oversea investors this are the ones that has come forward claming to be victims of Madoff fraud.

Benedict Hentsch, a Swiss private bank, said it had 56 million Swiss francs ($47 million) of exposure to Madoff's investment advisory business. UniCredit SpA's fund management unit, Pioneer Investments, has exposure through its Primeo Select hedge fund, two people familiar with the matter said.

Bramdean Alternatives said almost 10 percent of its holdings were exposed to Madoff, sending shares in the UK asset manager crashing.

From Paris to Tokyo

BNP Paribas, the biggest French bank, said Sunday that it has as much as €350 million, or $472 million, at risk from Madoff's investment advisory business. Nomura Holdings of Japan has ¥27.5 billion, or $302 million, at risk from Madoff's funds, while Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria of Spain may face up to €300 million in losses.

While Eurpoeans Markets felt the hit from the Madoff scam America seemed to be doing fine, but that is because during the same time that the Madoff scandal was on the news so the bail out to the automakers.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 03:54 PM
More on the "Jews link"

In Madoff scandal, Jews feel an acute betrayal

Among the apparent victims of Madoff were many Jewish educational institutions and charitable causes that lost fortunes in his investments; they include Yeshiva University, Hadassah, the Jewish Community Centers Association of North America and the Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity. The Chais Family Foundation, which worked on educational projects in Israel, was recently forced to shut down because of losses in Madoff investments.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 03:58 PM
More on the hedge funds groups that lost money,

Investors in a hedge fund owned by MassMutual Financial Group may have lost more than $3 billion in the alleged Ponzi scheme

Rye Investment Management is a division of MassMutual's Tremont Group Holding, Inc., which is a subsidiary of Oppenheimer Acquisition Corp., a subsidiary of MassMutual, said company spokesman Mark E. Cybulski.

MassMutual had $500 billion in assets at the end of 2007.

This eventually will have a very bad effect on the markets.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 05:23 PM
thanks marg but I'd like to focus on what I think is becoming a very clear and plausible link to mafia involvement either as part of the scam or as victims of the scam.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 05:27 PM
reply to post by Crakeur

I know, but while I have been able to find more on the scam and their victims the mafia link is still too early to find sites with more information.

I just don't want the thread to die as we know that in the coming weeks after the holidays this is bound to get hot, specially with he financial toll on the markets.

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 07:22 PM
From the heart of the storm in New York, something unofficial hot off the press. Madoff is a crook, but was at most, what might be called 'the point man."

Large scale bad money requires a clean front to enter the system. Somebody with established Wall Street connections and credentials had to be there moving billions around without raising undue suspicion.
Madoff was a conduit for huge ill-gottten gains blended in with legitimate investment made by judicious organizations and individuals.

Those behind the scenes were aware of his lack of transpaprency and double bookkeeping - and that eventually he'd have to take a fall. Meanwhile, dirty money was able to seamlessly blend with clean, go in and come out with santized profits.

I know this is all cryptic, but let me reduce it to an equation. Wall Street - drug proceeds - many laundering.

The hope of those with so much to hide is that tens of billions of dollars moved back and forth into an and out of the system, would eventuually be detected. With the SEC and other government agencies and politicos implicated, it was hoped the investigation would not proceeed beyond nabbing "that crook, Madoff."

Madoff is, from what a little birdie has told me, the tip of a very big iceberg.
Probably the biggest fifnacial scandal ever. A close second might be a superficially similar one in the 70s involving the Vatican - the Italian Banco Ambrosia - and Mafia moeny laundering. It exteneded as far as an honest whistleblower pope being poisoned after being in office only a few weeks.
That one has been written out of history, but there are still books and articles on it, if you look.

I hate conspiracy theories, but this might be the biggest politically connected cover-up of all time.

Mike F

posted on Dec, 24 2008 @ 07:34 PM
reply to post by Anonymous ATS

I would hope that given the text and point of your post the misspelling of the Israeli Intelligence Service was a mistake.....

posted on Dec, 25 2008 @ 10:05 AM
Black Ops financing, CIA, Mossad, Russian ologops, compromised fig leaf SEC, JP Morgan Chase & Bank America as conduits, it's all there in plain sight! Bernie's insurance is that if anything happens to him or his family members, full documentation & hard evidence with regard to ALL involved, incl. politicos & judiciary, will be released to the press.

posted on Dec, 25 2008 @ 11:20 PM
This is the the bigger picture

(edited excerpts from an online message at Yahoo forum and elsewhere)


"... Bernie hid the money and now calling it all a Ponzi scheme is just smoke to hopefully get his kids and cohorts off the hook.

Bernie’s best friends are the regulators, he was the chairman of the NASDAQ, otc and pinks for years, he helped create the order flow
to computers. He knows the only real way to make money is naked shorting stocks on the OTC and pinks as soon as they come out of the box, thus his big clients knew this too, they are not stupid.

He has been in the business since 1960, he knows where all the skeletons are buried and this knowledge will limit his punishment. God forbid this guy spills all the beans because major peeps in all categories will go down. Bernie contributed many dollars to Clinton campaign and SEC Cox.

The problem here is that the jig is up, over, kaput, and the naked shorting had to be covered starting 12/15/2008. Bernie confessed and turns himself in on 12/11/2008.

The FBI has been working with Madoff a long time on this prepackaged deal. Look he is out on bail for $10 million only.

The deal has already been predetermined how many years or months he gets and the Fed will step in and buy back these short positions..."


Mike F

posted on Dec, 27 2008 @ 03:31 PM
Well as I research more about the Mafia links now is rumors that the Russian mafia was also involved in the Madoff deals.

It seems that as we know Madoff “funds” were “funds of funds” from the various investors that he dealed with.

From the Israel site of ivestors that were into “various” charitable organizations it's rumors that they were dealing with Russian mafia.

As all this “shady organizations” starts to scramble for their money after the scam many other “shady individuals” will be hit.

Is expected that “Madoff probably has a price on his head now” and some are betting that he will encounter a very untimely death in the near future.

The predictions are that the markets will go into a full panic very soon causing a crash.

And that the “mafia” investors through the many “funds of funds” will go after Madoff Themselves.

posted on Dec, 27 2008 @ 11:38 PM
Madoff already cut a deal with the FBI, it's not much of a secret. He takes the fall, his sons get off light, he keeps quiet about 'arrangements' with the Securities and Exchange Commission and official connections that go far up into New York State politics.

The tentacles of the Russian mob, billions of drug proceeds laundered through Wall Street for a generation, with quiet governmental sanctioning, is the bigger picture. But the depth of the interworking will get minimal exposure. Too many high profile head would roll in the Democratic Party. New York state corruption makes Illinois look like amateur hour.

Madoff almost certainly has a Swindler's List securely hidden away in a safety deposit box, that would put a lot of prominent people out of action in an instant. The FBI has to make sure no one gets to him. He's probably as well protected against getting bumped off as Obama.

Mike F

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