If man kind is to survive, religion must end

I think you got it backwards! OMG, if religion fails, then mankind is doomed. Why would you want to abolish the spirituality of one's soul? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I don't even want to really call it "religion". I'll just say that it is so important to have a one-on-one personal relationship with Jesus Christ. We all need to call upon the big man upstairs at times! I pray to Jesus every day, and I talk to him like he is my best friend! We need good positive "food" for our soul!

i would like to know how old your daughter is..
just cause of the nature of that movie

to see so many people that hate religion saddens me. obviously you people have very sad lives and need something more, like religion, how can you say religion has caused so many problems? how do you know that the world wouldnt be 100 times worse without religion? for all you know the earth would be a much worse place without religion

Originally posted by footfall
how can you say religion has caused so many problems?

Gee...I don't know Sherlock....maybe the Middle East? Ireland? Inquisition? Holocaust? Etc...etc...etc...etc...etc....

What are you doing? Walking around with a blindfold on?

reply to post by robwerden


-if only this could be realized in our lifetime..

anyone with a clue knows we would be at
least 200-300 years ahead in our evolution
if the human mind was not poisoned with religion.

-somehow, you'd have to also remove the idea of
the monetary currency system of trade as well.
somehow, i feel they are intimately related..
(and this coming a rather fun-loving, science-loving
capitalist)

unfortunately, i haven't a clue as to how to go about
wiping religion/monetary trade from the human mindset

short of sending say 100k of the most level headed,
unrelated, non-religious humans (with a good sense of
humour) scientists and engineres into space and wiping
all traces of religion/trade off the planet.
i can't see how it could be accomplished.

a space faring bunch of the above might be able to pull
it off -but you'd have to build scalar wave/vacuum energy
based tech & ships first...or maybe steal the tech from the
combined black-ops projects of all nations..

*shrug* -anyone have a clue? (or know an alien willing
to share? ]:-]

-sw

I think what would be most beneficial is if the entire world united all religions. Rather then ending all religion.

Originally posted by Blueangel7
I think you got it backwards!

I always do...hence the name

OMG, if religion fails, then mankind is doomed. Why would you want to abolish the spirituality of one's soul?

The spirituality of ones soul has zero to do with religion. Spirituality and religion are so very far apart you wouldn't begin to imagine.

That doesn't make any sense to me at all.

It makes perfect sense. Look a little harder, a little deeper...do a little more research. The reason it won't make sense is because you are taught that it can't work without religion. You are taught that religion is where right and wrong comes from. This is not so. Then why are most atheists truly good people? Even agnostics? Why don't they abandon all that religions teach? They do not. Most of what is right and wrong is subjective to feeling. Almost anyone can feel another's pain regardless of if they are taught to feel it or not. Everyone of us knows how we want to be treated. Knowing how you want to be treated is enough to know how others would like to be treated. Common sense says that if someone doesn't like something...you shouldn't do it, to put it basically. No man needs religion to tell him these things. Spiritual growth establishes natural law in man, not religion. The law of love and understanding how we all are linked together. And everything you do, whether negative or positive, affects us all in some way, but very few people see this. People mostly stop at the person it affects directly, but forget that the effect on that person may affect others...and so it continues.

I don't even want to really call it "religion".

Yes, call it what it is.

I'll just say that it is so important to have a one-on-one personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I believe it helps in the minds of others...and only in the minds, because if you believe something very much...it will mold how you live your life to a large extent. But I won't say it's important. Santa is good, isn't he? He teaches a good lesson doesn't he? Well...you can easily say, it's important for people to have a one-on-one personal relationship with Santa Clause. But is it really important? It's only important if they(there's that word again) believe it. Neither of them is needed to be happy, to help others and enlighten the mind. Understanding their positive teachings is enough. And I say positive...because, well...Santa has no negative teachings...opposed to Jesus Christ. Read the Bible thoroughly if you doubt that, or...if you don't have the time, do a quick google search, then look up the chapters they point you to.

We all need to call upon the big man upstairs at times!

As I said...only if you believe in him.

I pray to Jesus every day, and I talk to him like he is my best friend!

That's excellent for you! So let the people who talk Mother Lakshmi, Shiva, Buddha, Santa Clause and the Loch Ness Monster do so freely. See, they believe in their deities as much as you believe in yours. And to a lot of them...they are best friends with their deities, as you are with yours. And to a lot of them...it helps them, and makes them happy. So...please don't tell them they are friends with the wrong person and that Jesus is the only friend they really have, because, to them...you are 100% wrong, just like they are 100% wrong to you. So, leave them alone.

We need good positive "food" for our soul!

Indeed we do. Whether the "food" is make believe or not...if it can bring about the good in a person...then let them eat 'til their hearts of full.

Originally posted by slave2thelord
i would like to know how old your daughter is..
just cause of the nature of that movie

She is 17, why is that important? Religion is shoved down childrens throats at birth.

I personally think the world is better off without Religion as it only causes segregation and the world needs to be united not divided. That is not to say that I believe in no rules or want to do as I wish as no one can escape judgement of The Light and everyone is responsible for their actions.

I am spiritual myself and believe that the 'higher power' or 'Light of the Universe' guides me in how to live spiritually and how to help and serve others. I just dont put an icon or figurehead on The Light and read religious books which no matter what way you put it can be susceptible to distortion which many are.

The advantage I find in being Spiritual is that I can freely go around to any race, enjoy their company and be the best of friends with them no matter where they come from.

Some may say you can do the same with Religion, however the difference is that the same person you shook hands with in the supermarket is going to go home and preach how their Religion is the true way and 'yours is not' thats what Religion does, it segregates.

Every Religion teaches that 'a certain way is the true way' otherwise no one would devote themselves to any Religion whatsoever if they did not fully embrace and believe it. You cant half do Religion or Spirituality for that matter you either commit or leave.

Case in point, try and tell a Muslim that Christianity is a great religion and see if he agrees, I highly doubt it, most if not all will say 'ours is the true way convert to our side'. If there is going to be a world with Religion there has to be one and one only, a Global Religion if you will.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Drakiir]

reply to post by atlasastro


You are my master. *bows* LOl

Seriously. Religion isn't everything that guides us, in fact very many amounts of people do not use religion to guide their life but to guide their heart. Personally, I look toward God as in a way that I can have something to look up to, but I do not depend on God to make my decisions, or to move me one way or another. That's just how it is.

You need to consider that just changing the little bits of a religion could do, it could have a good effect without completely abolishing it! And logic, Mister, hasn't gotten us everywhere because there are still somethings that cannot be explained and probably never will be.

So get off your high horse, realize that it will never happen, and think of another way that could change this planet into a better one.

It may be religion that saves your life.


One thing that Does bother me though: Is when people walk blindly in faith. So yeah, I agree religion is an issue, but I disagree that it can't solve some other ones.

PEACE


HAPPY EFFING NEW YEARS EVERYONE
Cm

Originally posted by footfall
to see so many people that hate religion saddens me. obviously you people have very sad lives and need something more, like religion, how can you say religion has caused so many problems? how do you know that the world wouldnt be 100 times worse without religion? for all you know the earth would be a much worse place without religion

We're simply pointing out what we do know. And religion DOES cause segregation, and spark endless feuds, but like I mentioned before, it can also help things too.

reply to post by footfall


how do you know that the world wouldnt be 100 times worse without religion? for all you know the earth would be a much worse place without religion

Take modern day times for example where there are so many variations of Religion and even sects within Religion itself such as Methodist and Catholic, thats just for starters. Lets not forget to mention all the different Religious books which are supposed to give guidance to the 'true way' and only put there spin on what a higher power is.

Groups like Freemasonry, Zionism, Satanism, Scientology and others, which are the products of peoples own distortions are actually considered as Religion and in all cases considered by the individuals to be as true as the Bible itself. Freemasons actually work off the Bible and apply their own twist on it, thats the danger of Religion, it allows room for interpretation, distortion and most importantly the ability to be able to create Religions so easily.

The core message to save hundreds of pages of 'sugar coating' and converting to multiple Religions is 'Treat others the way you would treat yourself'. Apply that principle in life and use your Moral compass and your well on your way to being a good person, no distortions and contradictory text required.

In summary I want Religion (meaning Religion itself and its doctrines not the people who believe in it obviously) to be rid of from this Earth as it has caused nothing but wars, destruction and distortion and additionally as mentioned above helped propel 'takeover groups' to emerge with their own Religions and agendas......unless you support that

[edit on 1-1-2009 by Drakiir]

reply to post by Drakiir


I guess you think that Stalin, Mao and Pol pot were just religious people trying to gain control?
No, they were trying to get rid of it through Communism!
They just had to kill MILLIONS in each country to fail!
Soviet persecution of Christians

The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion. Toward that end, the Communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools. Actions toward particular religions, however, were determined by State interests, and most organized religions were never outlawed.
Some actions against Orthodox priests and believers along with execution included torture being sent to prison camps, labour camps or mental hospitals.[11][12][13][14] Many Orthodox (along with peoples of other faiths) were also subjected to psychological punishment or torture and mind control experimentation in order to force them give up their religious convictions (see Punitive psychiatry in the Soviet Union). [12][13][15][16]
It is estimated the some 20 million Christians (18 million Orthodox, 2 million Roman Catholic) died or where interned in gulags under the Soviet regime 2.7 million martyred under Stalin.[17]
Practicing Orthodox Christians were restricted from prominent careers and membership in communist organizations (the party, the Komsomol). Anti-religious propaganda was openly sponsored and encouraged by the government, which the Church was not given an opportunity to publicly respond to. The government youth organization, the Komsomol, encouraged its members to vandalize Orthodox Churches and harass worshipers. Seminaries were closed down, and the church was restricted from using the press.

Pol Pot wanted to 'get rid' of the religious Khmer people
Mao Zedong of China, a marxist throughout most of his political life, starved multitudes in China and tortured or executed his people.

The U.S. State department in 1976 estimated that there may have been a million killed in the land reform, 800,000 killed in the counterrevolutionary campaign.[24] Mao himself claimed that a total of 700,000 people were executed during the years 1949–53.[25] However, because there was a policy to select "at least one landlord, and usually several, in virtually every village for public execution",[26] the number of deaths range between between 2 million and 5 million.[27][28] In addition, at least 1.5 million people were sent to "reform through labour" camps.[29] Mao’s personal role in ordering mass executions is undeniable.[30][31] He defended these killings as necessary for the securing of power.[32]

Marxism and/or Communism has failed EVERYwhere it has been tried,...... MISERABLY! You can't blame that on religion.

reply to post by Clearskies


You are taking what I said out of context so I will clarify: by 'rid' I mean get rid of the whole idea of Religious worship icons and books and replace it with strong Spirituality not the people themselves.

By doing what those people did they are obviously on the dark path and are not on a Spiritual one. Research into Spirituality on your part would lead you to find out that Spirituality has nothing to do with what those people did.

I suggest you find a better comparison.... what good spiritual people have done would be a logical start.

Also I clearly stated that I am Spiritual so what the people in your quote have to do with Spirituality I have no idea so I do not see your reasoning for including it

[edit on 1-1-2009 by Drakiir]

[edit on 1-1-2009 by Drakiir]

reply to post by Drakiir

I mean get rid of the whole idea of Religious worship icons and books and replace it with strong Spirituality not the people themselves.

By doing what those people did they are obviously on the dark path and are not on a Spiritual one. Research into Spirituality on your part would lead you to find out that Spirituality has nothing to do with what those people did.

I suggest you find a better comparison.... what good spiritual people have done would be a logical start.

Also I clearly stated that I am Spiritual so what the people in your quote have to do with Spirituality I have no idea so I do not see your reasoning for including it

I really believe that it is being taken care of! There isn't anything that WE need to do. It is like a process of natural Godly elimination, and attrition. It is just naturally falling away.

As more prophesies take on a different meaning, and or, don't happen at all the way most have been taught, this will naturally create divisions, and separations. Which will lead to:

The only way left will be; the spiritual one! All the rest will wash away.

reply to post by robwerden


"If man kind is to survive, religion must end".

The problem though isnt Religion or the Bible misunderstood?.

For example.

Most Powerful Meditation for Manifesting - LINK

uk.youtube.com...



[edit on 2-1-2009 by Jn]

reply to post by pause4thought

Funny how the most oppressive, murderous system that ever cursed the face of this earth was hell-bent on the eradication of religion: bolshevik communism, epitomized by Stalin's slaughter of 50 million of his own people. Hitler comes a fairly close second with his 'destroy anyone who doesn't kowtow to the Führer and his NWO'-style regime, with all people of faith and conscience sent to the camps if they as much as aid and abet Jews, Gypsies and the disabled.

there you go -

this is what comes of trying to control other people's beliefs

you control their minds and hearts - their ability to express their thoughts and feelings - you got them right where you want them

free people cannot exist without freedom of expression, freedom of belief, freedom of thought...

and guess what? with freedom - true freedom - YOU have the right to NOT believe

we all have the right to fight oppression - and that includes oppression that originates with religion

but, in my mind, no matter what you believe - when religion is used to oppress it has nothing to do with belief

it is what it is - a tool

logic tells me I just got a whole bunch of people angry, and they are going to want to debate me on this. So im not going to debate anyone here, by simply not replying to any comments that show disagreement This definitely IS the most bigoted statement I've ever read on ATS.

This definitely IS the most bigoted statement I've ever read on ATS.

how about the most cowardly?

reply to post by Freelancer

Freedom of choice as an individual is, and will always be, part of what we are as humanity, irrespective of weather it goes against the beliefs of others. The point the Opening Post makes is that perhaps having no religious support is the best way forward for them...There will always be people that agree with issues that we, as individuals may disagree with, that does not mean we should take this as a personal threat to our own way of life.

unless it's issued as a threat

I understand what you're saying - and I'm all for intellectual debate

Religion must stop, end of story....

...So im not going to debate anyone here, by simply not replying to any comments that show disagreement, because you are exactly the type of person who I do not want to associate my self with....

from our OP

this isn't about discussion - friendly or otherwise

whatever else it might be - it's one of the most childish displays I've seen so far here at ATS

reply to post by robwerden

First, if you think religion should be abolished right now, then flag and star right now.

Im not going to post links and sources, because this is just a statement that I firmly believe in. I just sat with my daughter and watched the Bill Maher movie "Religulous" about religion, and although I know he hand picked the wackiest of all people to put in his film and did some creative editing to boost the point, the bottom line is the point is correct.

it's a beautiful thing to see...a well informed and inspired man with a plan

Maybe you missed the part where I said I don't want to associate with people who are attached to religion. If I am to be consistent with my goal and the means in which I hope to achieve it, I must follow through by only discussing it with people who agree. By not talking to people who disagree, I place them in the position in which they are ostracized and there fore left with 2 choices, which are either abandon religion, or be ignored by me.

how is this approach useful to society - towards your ultimate goal? You do realize what comes right after this - don't you?

I keep forgetting - you're not talking to me...

[edit on 1/5/2009 by Spiramirabilis]

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Zealots are generally self defeating animals.