How to keep the police on your side

reply to post by Voxel


When pulled over, does it make a difference to the outcome whether you get out of the vehicle and approach the patrol car and politely, proactively asking the officer "can i help you?"or staying put with your hands holding up the keys in clear view?

Originally posted by citizen smith
When pulled over, does it make a difference to the outcome whether you get out of the vehicle and approach the patrol car and politely, proactively asking the officer "can i help you?"or staying put with your hands holding up the keys in clear view?

I am no expert, but if I didn't want to get shot I would NOT get out of the vehicle and start approaching the cop car. That would surely spook them. For all you know they are running your tags to see if you are a dangerous and wanted felon before they approach your car (not likely but possible). They prefer that you stay passive and do what you are told to do.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by AgentBlack
reply to post by Revealation

 

wow, could not be more wrong! there are no quotas. the revenue you speek of is based on FBI annual crime reports filed by the PD. traffic infractions get a zero value for funding, ticket books don't cost that much. bugets are based on violent, drug, and property crimes. cops get more bonuses when traffic violations go down, cause it means what their doing is working, duh.

Well I may be technically or legally wrong on paper about quotas but it doesn't change the fact they still pursue it just as aggressivly and benefit from the funds.You can't honestly beleive they receive bonuses for receiving less money.duh Do you honestly believe that because they say something isn't legal, that they refrain from doing it? duh.I know the Criminal Justice system is a business and bigger source of revenue. I never denied it, it's just a fact that lots of tickets also bring lots of money.NY has dot ticket agents all day long writing tickets. Cha Ching $$$$. DDDUUUUHHHH

Quote from Wikipedia

Police charged with traffic enforcement frequently benefit from writing tickets. This includes better job evaluations and promotions, especially where a formal or informal quota system is used. The funds collected from traffic violations also frequently go into a fund from which the officer is paid, or in some other way benefit the officer and/or their town. This can lead to speed traps and more onerous means of collecting violation revenue, such as blocking traffic and posting officers to catch drivers who attempt to bypass the blockage on the shoulder. Excessive enforcement against out-of-town drivers is often a result of this conflict

conflict of interest

Every agency (state or federal) have broken and will always break laws that they financially benefit from. Who is going to stop them or hold them responsable? Tell me, Who polices the lawmakers? They are never held responsable for their crimes. Economic collapse and bailout is one point in hand.I'm sure that was totally legal on paper.

one trick i have used that works is: instead of putting your hands on the wheel, i put both hand out the window with fingers streched out.

I do too, only I extend just the middle fingers

the officer instantly relaxes and takes his hand off his weapon and smiles. then he usually says "you must have been pulled over before?" and i say "not that, i just know a few cops and that it makes your job easier." his reply..."have a nice day, and slow down."

That is the corniest load of crap. All of you, as stated in these posts, have also acknowledged that they are people. Yes, they are. people who deal with people all day, people who are angry and don't like their jobs or had a bad day. People who are judgemental about appearences as everyone else is in this world.People who want to be noticed and promoted.

I don't know about you but I have no reason to smile when some schmuck is busting my chops and kiss ass while they are harassing me and targetting me because I look a certain way.It's already obvious that he has made up his mind.

EDIT: to add link

911 Job Forums

[edit on 22/12/2008 by Revealation]

[edit on 22/12/2008 by Revealation]

[edit on 22/12/2008 by Revealation]

Thanks for this advice. I've been looking for this kind of stuff.

The only thing you are in control of is your behavior. You aren't in control of the facts, the facts are the facts. Focus on what you can effect and don't expect special treatment.

Some say cops will find an excuse. That is irrelevant in this case the best thing for you to do for yourself is whatever has the highest chance of leading to an understanding first, a choice second, and possibly a let off thirdly.

Shoot I'm even that not concerned about the ticket really I'm much more worried about bridging the gap in this situation where police authority meets self evident human rights and smoothing it out.

If the SHTF the police will have a choice of their own to make, and frankly that is a big deal. Let's try to understand, at least those of us on ATS have a prayer of accomplishing this.

I'd love to hear more from those who are in the loop or know police officers.

[

---
So you see a cop car up ahead?

First things first, don't automatically (reflexively) brake when you see a cop car. This sends the wrong message to an officer. You are basically saying, "I was trying to get away with breaking the law but I am not the kind of person who takes any responsibility for my choices."

The key here is to remember that POLICE ARE PEOPLE. First impressions are even more important to police because their job requires that they form opinions on people quickly and accurately or they could be dead.



[edit on 12.22.2008 by Voxel]


you say to criss cross your hands on the wheel

basically--assuming the position

well,,, as you say above about tapping the brakes,,,,acting obvious or guilty---i think crossing your hands as you say does just the same

that says,,, i've done this b4 and know the drill,, and have been pulled over b4,,,,,,this makes an impression you're not trustworthy or a rulebreaker

but the rest all makes sense,,,,,and attitude means everything


most is common sense stuff

also,,,,i've heard on radio and verified by a supposed cop-on radio as well----it is a federal law that a cop in his car must have his lights on----so for when they're hiding in bushes all undercover and you get a ticket----can have it thrown out on that--lights off

reasoning----if your in trouble,,, say running fronm a murderer, rapist,,,, you wouldn't want to run to an empty cop car for help if it's empty,,,there for if cop inside,,,lights on


if anyone knows where to find proof of law please link to it

edit--spelling,mistakes

[edit on 22-12-2008 by shortywarn]

OP has some excellent advice. I never had a methodology or psychology for dealing with cops, I always just treated them like people and like authority figures. He's right, in that a cop's job is extremely dangerous - and situations can turn from docile to deadly in a hair's breath - so anything you can do (which doesn't violate your civil rights) to make them feel more at ease and comfortable will benefit you.

I haven't been pulled over in about 6 years, and I haven't gotten a ticket (even going well over the limit) in 10 years. I think this is partially because I do tend to intrinsically follow some of the same steps the OP mentions.




Also, I used to work at a gas-station Pizza vendor. When the local cops would come in to monitor the crowd of kids who'd gather after the local dancehall closed, I would always make them whatever kind of special pizza they wanted, just the way they liked it. Free of charge. At this time, I also had expired plates, an expired license, and no insurance. I have the feeling they knew this, but didn't mess me with because I treated them more like a human being than a simple authority figure. Greasing the wheels a bit doesn't hurt either.

Originally posted by Novise
I'd love to hear more from those who are in the loop or know police officers.

"BY BEING A "COP".LITTLE DID I KNOW THAT ASIDE FROM OUR BOSSES PUSHING US TO GET THE COLLARS REVOLVING AROUND THE "7 MAJORS",WHICH IN RETURN MAKE THEM LOOK WELL VIA COMPSTAT,WE WOULD ALL EVOLVE INTO SUMMONS WHORES.I'VE SEEN OUR "PERFORMANCE GOALS"AKA QUOTAS GET HIGHER "
Scroll down to post by 75 SOLDIER (aka 75 pct.)

911 job forums

Fines for NY traffic inractions

reply to post by Revealation


it's so clear now. you live in new york. just cause you live in a morally corrupt state you think all cops are bad. the officers down here are good folks who do the job for little pay because of a sense of duty to the public not political whatever, most are ex-military and chose the profession to continue service to the people.

if your tired of them "busting your chops" maybe you should try NOT breaking the law.

Another bit of advise is instead of breaking down shift for a second and then throw the car in neutral. the downshifting will slow the car like a break but won't light up the break lights. throwing the car in neutral will ease lode off the car shifting it's weight back to a normal position making it look like you didn't just break and it will kill any engine sound, so it's like you weren't gunning your engine or at high RPMs.

I've always been nice to cops when pulled over and I get off more than I get busted. When asked if I've been drinking this has gotten me out of trouble a few times. I say yes. had one beer about an hour ago but I haven't eaten anything so the smell is probably still strong on my breath. as long as my speech is correct and I talk articulately they tell me that I'm heading straight home and to have a good night.

My car's paperwork is always a mess. can't find my registration etc... I have it but it's obvious when shinning the flashlight on the floors of my car that i'm naturally disorganized in this area of my life. So I admit to the cops that I'm pretty disorganized that it will take me a moment to look for my stuff, sorry bear with me here etc... then I tell them if hey want they can scan my license plate and it will tell them that everything is kosher with me and my car. usually they go real easy on me and let me off or give me the smaller infraction. Sound honest and open and like you don't want any trouble, even if you have done more wrong than they actually know about and are pulling you over for. don't act too nervous etc...

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
Another bit of advise is instead of breaking down shift for a second and then throw the car in neutral. the downshifting will slow the car like a break but won't light up the break lights. throwing the car in neutral will ease lode off the car shifting it's weight back to a normal position making it look like you didn't just break and it will kill any engine sound, so it's like you weren't gunning your engine or at high RPMs.

I wouldn't recommend this at all. When in neutral the engine is not driving the wheels and you are not in control of the vehicle at all. Really dangerous if at speed or on a bend because you then have no engine braking whatsoever.

Not being in control of your vehicle is also illegal in most places.

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
no offense

my brother's a cop

acting like this will get you a ticket.

basically

if he catches you driving fast

your getting ticketed

because it annoys him when people in SUVs especially

drive fast.

My brother is a cop too and he acts exactly like this as well.

My brother is an A**HOLE. I haven't spoken to him in over 2 years because of this attitude. Your brother sounds just like mine.

Not all cops are like our brothers. SUV's annoy him? Sounds like he has major problems.

The OP is 100% correct with his advice on how to avoid a ticket.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by craig732]

Although I agree with the politeness and the importance of reassuring the officer you're a safe person, it's really not a good idea to admit your guilt. If the officer asks if you know why they pulled you over, they are trying to get you to admit guilt. They have a voice recorder on them that will record this, and after this point you cannot refute the ticket. That's information straight from a lawyer at the student services of my university. Just thought I'd add that.

Maybe its just me, but when it comes to cops, I stick to my guns.
I ran a red light, and didnt use my turn signal makin a right turn, after smokin a J::lights go off::: I pull over, my driend was in the passanger seat, we were both hotboxing the vehicle. The cop came up to the window, I rolled it down and he got hit in the face with a smoke cloud bigger than an atom bomb cloud. He said "do you know why I pulled you over?" I said "no I do not". He said "well, you ran a red light, and failed to use your turn signal". I stuck with my guns and said "no I didnt, I did not run that light and I DID use my turn signal". we must have argued about it for 2 min or so, then he stuck his head in the car, sniffed, and said "It smells like chief in the car boys". My buddy, well he has cancer, he said "well sir I smoked before I came, here is my card". It wasnt a real card it was just a card from his doctors office with the doctors phone number on it. The cop then said OK. He took the card,my lisense, and registration ect..
me and my friend were sitting there, stoned as all hell thinking we were going to jail. He came back to my window, handed me all my cards back, and said "you all be safe, have a good day, and watch out for those traffic signals".
I COULDNT BELIEVE IT!! We just rolled out to the casino and continued to kick ass the rest of the day.(And this is in Las Vegas, and we all know how ^%&^% Vegas cops are) But I learned that day, that when you stick to your story, and you dont show fear because you OBVIOUSLY didnt do anything wrong, then at the end, they just dont want to deal with you.
This has worked for me a few times. And the times I tried to be nice, and "yes sir offica sir" I ALWAYS got a ticket.
So if you are going to lie, STICK with that lie.
Sometimes telling the truth doesnt always help esp when the man is trying to come down on you.

Originally posted by AgentBlack
reply to post by Revealation

 

it's so clear now. you live in new york. just cause you live in a morally corrupt state you think all cops are bad.

For starters all politicians are morally corrupt which in turn are the people making our laws governing our agencies and I don't think all cops are bad,only most.

if your tired of them "busting your chops" maybe you should try NOT breaking the law.

For starters why would you be implying I break the law.As I have stated I have been pulled over 3 times in the last 12 years and all by the same cop in the same town within the same year. So I haven;t been breaking the law.

Now I can see why there's such an injustice in our justice system. Gung ho Jo and your 1 semester of law make you a judge and jury convicting me of breaking the law.I always knew there was and never will be any truth in the justice system. Too many people such as your self in this field.They're just brainwashing errr....training another one to fit the bill. Seems from your assesments of me that you will make them PLENTY of money.

Bit of personal advice.In the field you're going into just remember to be fair and honest in your assesments, because it's someone's life you're playing with and they may not be guilty.Just be cautious not to stand to close to the innocent guy you get convicted of life while he's being read his sentence.

reply to post by Voxel


Great thread

I have spent some time in America as a Australian tourist and i have found that it dose not matter what country you come from it's all about RESPECT.....As the op said they are just people like the rest of us....Treat your fellow man the way you like to be treated....I understand many people don't like the police but they are just doing the job no one wants....

Once again Voxel great thread and well thought out.. Star for you

Originally posted by citizen smith
reply to post by Voxel

 

When pulled over, does it make a difference to the outcome whether you get out of the vehicle and approach the patrol car and politely, proactively asking the officer "can i help you?"or staying put with your hands holding up the keys in clear view?

I have been told that you should never get out of your vehicle unless directly instructed because it sends an aggressive message.

In many ways think of the situation like you are dealing with a scared dog. Stay cool, let him come to you, and do your best to reassure him that you aren't the kind of person he wants to punish.

Jon

what a great post by someone with no inside knowledge of the police force but by just using their own common sense and logic

The only thing I can add for suggestions in "surviving the police" especially when it comes to getting tickets:

don't do anything out of the ordinary. Police officers work off routine, and everything not ordinary is their routine. The OP really emphasizes on integrity and honesty, but you didn't really mention charm.

now I'm not talking about sweet talking the officer, but simply showing an expressions in understanding and patience and interest. Now I would recommend, slight nervousness, calm tone, and a a concerned look, but don't look like some puppy or afraid. Try to be as direct as possible with answers, do not beat around the bush, or sound clueless, Yes officer or no officer, and no "uhhhs". Having all registration etc, almost ready when they get to the window with their bright light.. don't have it ready..have it almost ready.

Now what all this does, is merely assert the average honest joe, probably fumbling up for the first time.

Now respect will earn you respect but charm will earn you likability.
The only way you can safely spark this is if the officer ask you something very non-routine. Your ability to be liked is if the officer grants you the opportunity to generate a story - not an excuse - a story. If the officer asks you where you are headed - there is one story, and make it interesting - and make yourself likable, lose some of your nervousness in the story and try to as casually and respectfully tell it, sorry i don't have any examples. If the officer asks anything about your car, how old is it, what model, engine type, that is another opportunity to spark interest in the cop, make him/her like you and let them feed off your charm. Now if you're a really clever individual, and you have no passengers in the car, have a decoy prop in the passenger seat, or something on hand to spark conversation when the cop notices it - a bag, a balloon, anything you already have a pre-made (known to work) story to generate.

If all of this sounds like lying, and a set up for failure. It can be. If you have stories that are true, then it is not lying, but it is not a set up for failure, since you have already failed by disobeying the law. great post OP - watch out for the blue light special

edit spelling

[edit on 22-12-2008 by juveous]

Personally I treat every person with respect until they demonstrate they are not worthy and that has on occasions included a policeman.

I recall one specific incidence when I was pulled over coming home from work early in the morning (I work at the hospital and have odd hours and in my profession if I am needed, I have to stay. Anyway it was about 2:15 am and a policeman pulled me over on the highway. I greeted him using the exact words as you stated "Good evening officer.", he returned my greeting and asked me why I thought he pulled me over. I honestly did not know and told him so. He then said that he clocked me at 77 in a 66, this was a flat out lie as every day when I leave work after I get out of the city limits I set my cruise control at 59. Now this irritated me and I said to him, "Thank you very much sir, you have just made me a wealthy man." He said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Sir this is a 67 thousand dollar automobile with less than 10 thousand miles on it, I set the cruise control at 59 15 miles back and if you clocked me at 77 then obviously GM has a sever problem with the Corvette's speedometer and I will be seeking litigation to resolve this problem as they may have caused me to endanger someone's life." (totally sarcastic, but what can I say, he lied to me straight up). The cop then says, "Are you trying to be a smart A**?"

I said "No sir, but I follow this exact routine every single day of my life and I know for fact exactly how fast I was going and I do not like being lied to as I am sure you do not either." He then says "Look smart A**, how about I just impound your car and take your A** to jail." I said "excuse me one second sir", I grabbed my cell phone and called my attorney whom was not pleased to be awoken at 2:30am. I said look I am getting arrested for speeding and this cop has threatened to impound my car and take me to jail for going 4 miles over the speed limit, but he insists I was going 77, you will need to meet me at the jail."

The cop then says to me, "who said I was arresting you? I said "you did sir and I am not some poor uneducated schmuck that you can just push around, I push back and have the resources to push pretty hard." Now all of a sudden this guy decides to be a little more cordial and says, "Well maybe I might have shadowed you with another vehicle, I am gonna let you go this time, just be more cautious." I was thinking what nerve this joker has, so I said, "Perhaps sir, you thought I was some idiot who drives a 67 thousand dollar automobile drunk and you figured you could just force your will on me, unfortunately for you, you picked someone who doesn't drink at all or use any drugs, now you realize your mistake and instead of apologizing, you have to try to slide your way out, I am not going to make it that easy for you." I had my attorney file a complaint the next day and after some threats of litigation, the officer was terminated.

I unlike you will not allow myself to be abused for no reason, if the man does not appreciate the respect he is given and shows none in return, I have the capacity to be just as much of an A**hole as he does.

Its been said and is a FACT. Let me repeat that It is a FACT. Police officers are people no two people are alike. What works with one person may not work with another. The most important thing to remember is to treat others the way you want to be treated. Its really simple.

In my recent past my dogs and I worked with the police a lot. Usually on the county level but very often the state level as well. I have talked to more officers then most and gotten to know them personally.

There is no big Mystery about them they are people. To muddy the water even more. When a officer is on the job they are different then when there not. Same as you and I.

With as much as I am enjoying this thread I think people may be getting the wrong idea and think there is actually a consistent way to get away with thumbing your nose at the law.

There is not a consistent way. What works with one may not ever work again. Please enjoy this as a discussion only and not a black and white set of rules. Just remember to treat them the way you want to be treated.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by angryamerican]

a little story about cops and attitude. About 18 years ago, I was coming home from work. I was about two and a half miles outside the city limits, when I glanced in my rearview mirror and saw blue lights flashing. I drove a soft top jeep at the time, so I couldn't tell if it was county or state behind me. I was pretty friendly with one of our local state troopers, and I thought it was him pulling me over just to give me some Sh*t since I wasn't speeding.
I pulled over, and got out of my car, (it was broad daylight), and was immediately verebally accosted by a CITY cop wanting to know why I hadn't pulled over before.
I told him I pulled over when I saw his lights. He immediately told me I was lying. I had been through a really bad day at work and wasn't in any mood for crap from anyone. I told him I wasn't lying. He repeated the remark. My next question was "You have a siren don't you? Why didn't you use it?" (Remember, he has never asked to see my license and I haven't offered.)
"I've got a good mind to call the county and have them arrest you," he told me, with a real smart-a$$ attitude that was supposed to intimidate me.
I told him to go right ahead and call them. I was going to get in my vehicle and go home. I told him futher that if he had run my plates he knew my address, so he could tell the deputies where I lived, or better yet, he could follow my happy little butt home.
At that point, I got in my jeep, and drove the remainding two and one half miles home. The cop (read "bully") turned around and went back into his jurisdiction. No county deputies showed up at my door to arrest me.
About six months after the incident I was talking to the chief of police, who I knew only slightly, and I told him about the incident, without mentioning the officer's name. He said, "I know who you are talking about. I had a lot of calls about him, and talked to him several times. Finally had to let him go. There's no reason for an officer to treat anyone that way."
I have only been pulled over twice since, both times, I was legitimately speeding. Once I got a ticket, once I didn't, but both times, the officers where polite to me and I was polite to them, from the get go.