The Virtues of Trolling

The other day, I came across a blog with a brilliant little insight on how trolling can get you better linux tech support. It had me reflecting on that proverbial saying "there is a silver-lining in every cloud" and the taoist's ying & yang, in that there is something bad in everything good and something good in everything that is bad. We are all aware of the negatives trolling causes in our own community and elsewhere, but after giving this some further thought i can see that even the best of us use trolling techniques for good purposes. You could say it's equivalent would be the "white-lie" or "marketing". Sometimes it's in how we choose to word a thread; this thread for instance provokes some pondering being that it suggests a contradiction as fact. Intention being not just to accurately label but to also spark people's curiosity, a little sensationalism can go a long way in drawing more people near. Initial commentary and posts that follow may be geared toward encouraging others to share on a particular topic, by playing on hungry egos ("fighters" and/or just people who take themselves way too seriously and/or who have something to prove). The end result is usually a more interesting debate and/or wealth of insights. A little button pushing never got anyone hurt.

So on that note...

"A trolling we will go,
a trolling we will go,
high ho the merry-o,
a trolling we will go."

Merry Xmas & a Happy New Year everyone
... yes even to you annoying pointless twisted trolls

[edit on 22-12-2008 by The All Seeing I]

I don't understand the concept of trolling. I had to look it up. I don't mind a debate, but I am against harassment and name-calling etc.

I think that people can air their views without harassing, name-calling, or whatever in a civilised manner. I get fed up going on forums where you get people slagging another person off, if they don't agree with their side of things.

I check on the profile of these people, who act like this on boards, and I have noticed that they tend to fall into a particular age-group, or mind-set.
They seem to enjoy getting a rise out of people.

I ignore these people, but always up for a good, intelligent debate. Yes there is good and bad in everything. None of us are perfect, but some of these 'Trollers' make it hard to have an intelligent debate and make it hard for those of us, who may want to join in on the topic.

I don't understand what you mean by there is virtues in harassing another member, or name-calling; unless you are referring to 'trolling' in the sense that it gets people involved to discuss an issue.

By splitting an atom, we can turn on a world and turn it off... a hammer can build a house and take one apart. Same is true of trolling, it can kill a thread and can breath new life into one.

I'm a little bit proud of my new siggie (I don't have much of a life right at the moment )



or without the cat...



Trolling has ruined many a good topic... I therefore give these sigies to the community! If anyone wants to use either please do, (if you don't know how u2u me!)



[edit on 22/12/2008 by Now_Then]

reply to post by Now_Then

Trolling has ruined many a good topic...

I concur Now_Then, trolling is a "Child's Advocate" and should be punished, but it does give me satisfaction of some kind watching your "Ziggy's" at work!! LOL

Well, we shouldn't have to look too far. Since the kids are out for the holidays, there seems to be an increase in trolling. I usually look at the date that a member signed up. That's usually a good start. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good new posters with interesting topics but also a lot of troll threads that usually get the member banned in short order or are full of Mods having to come in and delete posts for one reason or another.

I too seem to have more time on my hands but that doesn't mean I want to waste it. At any rate, Happy Holidays to everyone here at ATS old and new (yes, even the trolls!)

Now_Then ... i'm loving the banner, do you have a link in mind to point it to?

Noting your avatar, i'm seeing a common theme with your banner... you could say bush is a kind of troll.

by the way, has anyone bothered to read the blog post i linked to? No one has bothered to comment in this direction... which is the intent of the OP.

reply to post by The All Seeing I


With cat...
i281.photobucket.com...


Without...
i281.photobucket.com...


Feel free to use the [IMG] url is the one you need to copy paste into your sig section in your memcentre

Edit - cos of the BBcode I had to change ['s for ['s... If you want to copy paste the urls into your sig section remember to then change the first [ and last ] in the url to ['s + ]'s... (basically the url should begin with [IMG...... and end with .....[/IMG]

why cant I turn BBcoda off!!! it might just be easier to right click them

[edit on 22/12/2008 by Now_Then]

edit - Linux is better... I'm just yet to put my finger on it... I can't even get BB code - how on earth I install those tar.gz files I have yet to find out one day maybe

[edit on 22/12/2008 by Now_Then]

That blog is interesting, and there's validity to it. There's more motivation to prove an idiot wrong than help someone out with a basic problem you think they should be able to figure out on there own.

Thank you pie, for taking the time to check it out, you summarize it perfectly... this is the same angle/approach i believe is employed in the effort to keep many threads from dying prematurely. Such strategies may not look like trolling on the surface but in essence they share similar motives in technique for a desired outcome... more information... more participation. If there is a good side of trolling, the blog i gave link/reference to provides an excellent example.

The All Seeing Eye:

I read the blog, and I must say there is "SOME" truth to your "assumptions" of trolling being either acceptable or a learning method, but the blog you provided is nothing more than a reverse psychological PR on the blogger part to extract information that was necessary for the individual to get an absolute answer to their personal dilemmas. "Nothing more." I personally Googled it and went right to the pages for this particular kind of "Help" information and had no problems understanding the explanations they had supplied at said website, though, there were some very, and rather "Alarming" thing's to the site that would allow me to think it would be a bad thing even trying to use it.

All rights reserved. There is no warranty of any kind! Some methods described on articles on this site may not work or may even damage your system and result in loss of data of other severe damage!
Use at your own risk!

linuxproblem.org...

We are not even sure of what the blogger was searching for. And there fore, I would beg to differ from "Trolling" being acceptable" for such Forums as discussion such as the ATS website.

"Trolling is wrong for some places that don't call for bashing, degradations and futile arguing."

I think your efforts in coloring this OP black or white is a disservice to the inquiry at hand. Obviously what i an bringing attention to is not some simple play of reverse psychology & the quote you provided is basic common sense in such circles. He is providing such a statement/disclaimer out of courtesy as well as a means of deflecting any complaints that may arise from people messing up their configurations due either directly or indirectly from advice given.

Trolling is a mind game, some of the same techniques that are used for derailment can also be used for getting a topic on track.

I'd like to explore any tweaking variations that enhance a thread vs destroy... in pursuit of understanding the full spectrum of trolling to included ulterior motives with good intentions.

All Seeing Eye:

But, that remains as "Self interpretation" while the conversation is taking place. People draw their own conclusions when using such medias as chat-rooms, forums and the like when discussing the information at hand, being a "troll" isn't the best method of conversation. I do understand of your explanation of the Reverse Psychological rebuttal, but when thing's get blurred with sharp tongued anecdotes and inferior accusations towards one another of the best interest for the thread, I would be little more than angry for the participation turning into a Saturday night verbal fight scenario, and all that because of someone that thinks they need to rile up an other wise normal argument or conversation, and for that , absolute waist of time and energy. from all sides of the table.

Its obvious to see which type of "trolling" is of any benefit and which ones are not. As the old saying goes, there are two sides to every coin.

I tend to put the trolling that only disrupts as the "tail" side of the coin...using the nicer word of tail rather than the a.. end of the coin.



Cheers!!!!

Kudos RFB, i think you have this rascal by the tail.

For the sake of this discussion/inquiry "throwing the baby out with the baby water" is self defeating. I can understand the knee jerk reaction to this OP, but i think i have thoroughly stated the objective. I am not advocating the practice of trolling as most of us coin the term/beast(s), i am only trying to encourage an objective closer look at this phenomenon to see if we can gleam any insights from the positives in use.

reply to post by The All Seeing I


LOL! This is truely a "Tail of Two Trolls"..? !!!!

Its a good discussion IMO, and definately has merit. I have seen some benificial trolling and some that just plainly have one purpose other than contributing. A good topic IMO!

Reply to button doesn't work "AGAIN" on this thread.
All Seeing I,
RF Burns,

I thank you for the consideration of using anecdotes for my considerations. I was not and am not against the typical good ole forum feud to defend ones self, I was just stating that there seem to be more less controlled people of such conversations that allow themselves to become convoluted in manor and over all open minded acceptance and closures.

I can tell that you both are of higher intellect and use of word abilities, which, from my point of view is fantastic for such discussions such as this one, my main point was the inability of others that would see our conversation as redundant or futile because of their particular assumptions or beliefs of whats being said.

When I had joined ATS, I had been her for , oh, lets say about one post to a thread, and was entirely informed that being an individual that has just entered the twilight zone of conspiracy and UFO forums, I should gain some much needed etiquette and some sort of forum demeanor to be able to communicate and debate with more philosophical and theoretical bases of communication, thus creating a desired effect of closure in a metaphysical conclusion, and I have tried with sometimes nail biting situations. But, all in all, I feel I am a much better communicator for taking their advices to heart.

ATS has changed since then with much more of the rudeness and less of the intellectual conversations. And that was what I was pertaining too, so, excuse my "Shallowness" of you r point All Seeing I, "Trolling does have it's up side, as RFburns has stated," and I will be more open minded with have chatting and communicating with both of you, I understand now and "Thank You."

With Respect,
Allred5923

No harm, no foul allred... glad to see you care about this subject enough to stick with this inquiry to see if we can gleam any insights from the positives in use.

For instance... just as with anyone, you can't pigeon hole the whole. There are people with good intentions using what we would classify as "trolling" to improve discussions or provide alternative methods to viewing what we rarely care to look at.

Such "trolls" as some would knee-jerk label, could just as well label "devil's advocates", "gadflies" or "culture jammers", challenging the dominant discourse and assumptions of forum discussions in an attempt to break the status quo of groupthink — the belief system that prevails in their absence... in an effort to see that others do not "deny ignorance".

[edit on 26-12-2008 by The All Seeing I]

I participate in a local forum with several of the folks from the Permian Basin. In this forum, we have about 75 active participants, and of those about 10 trolls.

Many of the trolls just call everyone names (particular emphasis on the political threads) and bash them. Like gangs.

But one guy in particular that can be considered a troll brings some very esoteric information to bear on many of the conversations in his trolls. He is condescending and can be smarmy....but if you can tolerate that he will often provide you with these little nuggets of information that make you wonder just who he is. Where does he get all this information?

Take, for example, my "Ning-Li" thread. He dropped her name one day while i was taking a lashing from one of the science snobs over there. I googled her name and found quite the mystery. None of the info i found was new to him...but it was to just about everyone else. As a matter of fact, on the occassions that i bother to report updates, he seems to already know that info and provides me another lead. Like he actually knows her or something.

It is that way with dozens of topics. But i have to read through a few paragraphs of BS to find that nugget of beauty.

Yin-Yang, indeed.

edit to add: i have no patience with the informal fallacy. This is why i avoid most political discourse, as it is laden with it. And if you get good at spotting it, you have yourself the best can of "Troll-Repellent" known to man.

As well, I often play devils advocate to spur original thought. Often people will discuss only what they read elsewhere, and not give much thought to it themselves. I have been bashed for being everything from a "Raging Liberal Zombie" to a "Mindless Bush Supporter", because i will present both sides during the same discussion, most often.

This often gets me labelled as a troll, by some of the more extreme. They fail to understand that being challenged on your premise is actually a good thing, and doesn't mean i disagree with you.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Your example in the blog shows what you mean about being a benefit of trolling.It's just where does the troll need to be put back in the cage is the trick.
Criticism is taken a little more seriously, especially tech companoes that work by creating "buzz" about their product.It was a quick way to resolve a potential marketing liability.
Smart on your part and used against impersonl corporation rhetoric it can be a potent weapon.