Occultism is not Satanism

Originally posted by Skyfloating
What Religions and Scientific Skeptics define as "occult" is not what occultism is really about.

Look at the practice of the "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn" for example. Those are a bunch of people practicing yogic discipline - not gimmicky tricks.

This feels like a guessing game ^_^. First you're saying Occultism is not Satanism (which is true, but Satanism can involve occultism). Then you separate a group out a different group within occultism as an example to say, "but it's not what I'm into" kind of thing. Given the umbrella of the word occultism, it could be one of a hundred things, including the things you've labelled as scam. I have neither the time nor inclination to play the guessing game (though have my guess already), but will pay attention for the post where you positively and definatively identify your belief so that the listening audience can perhaps say "yes, this not Satanism". Until then, everyone else can throw rubber playground balls at ya until something hits.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by saint4God]

If somebody says 'Blessed Be' chances are that they are part of New Age Wicca, and not old world witchcraft or any other segment of the Occult.

I don't know why so many people are suddenly Wiccan. My family has been involved in similar type things for hundreds of years... I think it's part of pop culture now.

Originally posted by saint4God

but will pay attention for the post where you positively and definatively identify your belief so that the listening audience can perhaps say "yes, this not Satanism". Until then, everyone else can throw rubber playground balls at ya until something hits.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by saint4God]

You see...occult practice is not about positively and definately identifying a belief-system, but about exploration.

I would give the book posted in the OP as an excellent summary of what occult and hermetic practice is all about.

I'd also like to go ahead and take a show of hands as to who here has read Crowley? Much of Crowley's work, the "foundation" of Satanism, supposedly, has nothing at all to do with Lucifer. The majority of Book 4, for instance, is a guide for yoga and meditation to reach enlightenment.

Yeah, sounds real scary, right?

Originally posted by missvicky
The admonishment is the evidence. If people weren't doing it, there would be no instruction against it.

Just because I say "don't murder!" does not make me a murderer. Writer of Deuteronomy same same. It means others do it and it is wrong.

Originally posted by missvicky
Besides, King Samuel consulted a soceress who rsised up Daniel's spirit who in turn busted King Samuel for seeking her out!

And what happened? And what did we learn from that? Or did you stop at that part?

Originally posted by missvicky
Not to pick on you personally, but I've noticed that in these types of discussions, anytime a Christian enters in, the tone becomes argumentative rather than explorative. I've also read that the Christian cross emphasises the south thus an expression of its warlike nature. I thought that was an interesting observation.

YARRRR!! Engarde te meet the business end o' my blade! Are you serious? O_o


[edit on 22-12-2008 by saint4God]

Miss Vicky- Every time I enter a discussion with Christians about things like this, I always support myself firmly and if I sound anti-Christian, so be it. I get argumentative back at them. Christians can be very closed minded and they don't do it on purpose, they sometimes don't understand the world beyond their religion because typically they have little experience with it. You just have to explain things to them and prove them wrong.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
I'd also like to go ahead and take a show of hands as to who here has read Crowley? Much of Crowley's work, the "foundation" of Satanism, supposedly, has nothing at all to do with Lucifer. The majority of Book 4, for instance, is a guide for yoga and meditation to reach enlightenment.

Yeah, sounds real scary, right?

Thats correct. And yet he is "commonly known" as "the most evil man in the world".




[edit on 22-12-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Man, I learned so much about him that I did not know in the other thread.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Christians can be very closed minded and they don't do it on purpose, they sometimes don't understand the world beyond their religion because typically they have little experience with it. You just have to explain things to them and prove them wrong.

Hello? I'm over here. Explain things to me to prove me wrong. If you give me some new information, I'll be both impressed and surprised. Be careful of your judgements please, you had some interesting things to say up until here.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by gordonwest

I have just started reading into the subject. I got interested because I occasianlly can see with my eyes closed, could always feel things (for example trees) when walking past them, I have always been empathic (feel others emotions) and intuitive telepathy (catching random thoughts when speaking to people) runs in the family. Add the fact that I found stuff in the bible that sent me towards Zacharia Sitchin I needed new answers.... 14 books and tons of I-Net reading later, I think I will concentrate on witchcraft, keeping my eyes open for Sigils and Thoughtforms, steer clear of Demonology and live by the rule: If it harms none / Love thy neighbour as thyself / Do unto others as you would have them do to you...

Just in case christians are right then I may 'go to hell' for not believeing in Christ, but I will not be caught out for not feeding, clothing, visiting 'the least of his brethren'.


BB,
Samuel
p.s. that's why blessed be/blessings => I really do wish that for everyone!
I always have been the wierd one who used to get funny looks when I started showing christian love to people that christians 'are allowed' to hate. (Esau, Judas, Satan to name just a few)

Right?! And people are still like OHHH SOOOO EVIL. Maybe they get him confused with LaVey, I don't know. And LaVey clearly says like, "This is what we believe but we will not murder people. We don't murder people we don't think it's okay to murder people or hurt people unless they want to be hurt." Most of LaVey's stuff is just really super creative and slightly Pagan BDSM. But Crowley is just really intelligent and combined teachings from Buddhism and Paganism and all sorts of stuff... Taoism... and made his own religion.

Clearly Christians would think he is evil.... since it's not like THEY ever combined a bunch of religions to make a new one before.

reply to post by asmeone2


Kundalini can indeed be dangerous. But not because its "evil"...but because of an overload-of-energy.

Why did I quit with the occult? Its not really necessary after you've practiced a certain amount of time.

saint4god- Well let's see it's a tad uncomfortable to approach you with a handle like that. I'm explaining things in the thread, so are other people. I don't need to approach you. Just use your eyes and read. If you don't believe me, look it up. Buy a book. An original text. They do sell Crowley and LaVey in Borders.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Clearly Christians would think he is evil.... since it's not like THEY ever combined a bunch of religions to make a new one before.

Scratch my last request, you have your judgements and assumptions already made up, false though they may be.

reply to post by Aldolas


Yep...training your perception and empathy toward all lifeforms is typical occult practice.

A scientist will take a plant and put it under a microscope.

An occultist will empathetically merge with it.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Just use your eyes and read. If you don't believe me, look it up.

So blind, cannot cannot see...soo....verrry blind.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Buy a book.

A book? What is this strange object of which you speak? Is that like a Bible?

Kundalini can be dangerous and sometimes it's very hard to control, as well...

I'd like to point out that many people involved in the Occult feel the need to be part of a group (aka all the sudden Wiccans out there). My boyfriend, mother, grandmother, and myself currently practice individual personal combinations of all sorts of stuff that works.

The rituals are typically worthless after you do them a couple of times, because you can get the same effect just from using your mind after awhile. There is a lot of money in the Occult, and people like Silver Ravenwolf are out there taking the money of people who are just curious about all of this stuff. It is personal, it is individualized, and I know for a fact that Christians individualize their religion a lot of the time. My boyfriend's mother is a Pastor and she not only used to practice occult but she still DOES practice parts of it, like energy work and some types of yoga and meditation.

Is she going to Hell for that? I highly doubt energy work is against the Christian church, because that's what ... oh.. prayer is.

reply to post by saint4God





Originally posted by missvicky
The admonishment is the evidence. If people weren't doing it, there would be no instruction against it.



Just because I say "don't murder!" does not make me a murderer. Surprised this point has eluded you. It means others do it and it is wrong.



Originally posted by missvicky
Besides, King Samuel consulted a soceress who rsised up Daniel's spirit who in turn busted King Samuel for seeking her out!



And what happened? And what did we learn from that? Or did you stop at that part?



Originally posted by missvicky
Not to pick on you personally, but I've noticed that in these types of discussions, anytime a Christian enters in, the tone becomes argumentative rather than explorative. I've also read that the Christian cross emphasises the south thus an expression of its warlike nature. I thought that was an interesting observation.




YARRRR!! Engarde te meet the business end o' my blade! Are you serious? O_o

--------------------------

Oh, I thought the instruction against socercery came from God to the people. Sort of like "Thou shall not kill". If htere were no murderers, there would be no reason for the commandment.

Yes, I did stop there. Evidence that yes, people were doing it. Not my intent to teach anything more, since that would be off topic.

Yes, I am serious, I have read that and thought it an interesting observation. The older equal armed cross is a symbol of balance. The Christian cross is not in balance with the souhtern end being longer than the other three.

Originally posted by asmeone2
Man, I learned so much about him that I did not know in the other thread.

Crowley built a smokescreen of "I am evil" around him in order to cover-up his insecurities and create a myth of awe. It worked. People fell for it.

He developed some interesting stuff, but having died of drugs in his last days is not a good exit indicative of transcendence.

Haha yes, okay, my mind is made up. I'm not going to be Christian. *shrug* I'm sorry. I'm not trying to convince you to practice Occultism, I'm trying to convince you that it's not evil.

I don't think Christianity is evil, I just don't think it's for me (aka right, if you want to think of it that way.)