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Occultism is not Satanism

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posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by tgambill
Grandma,

Satan also puts sparks in peoples heart, hence mormonism, Islam, Hindu, hariChrisna, New Age Christ consciousness, we are all God stuff......the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit to keep us on track with Gods voice. Its an instruction manuel, a how to do it and the law by God himself so that man will know that the voice of the Holy Spirit is the true one as it matches the Bible. It also tells us about false religions that are inspired by Satan. You also know when evanglicals, Priests and preachers are not telling the truth. This is why the Catholic clergy translate the Bible for the Catholic and discourages them from reading the Bible on their own. This is why the other false religions have their own "books". and this is why there is so many different translations of the King James Version....Satan is a busy busy boy.

All of this would be great Tom, if everyone believed as you do in Satan. But alas poor man, not everyone does. Your theory may work only if you take what the book says literally, but it was not written to be taken literally. Using a little common sense and reading between the lines one can figure out the meanings behind the book. So....is there a Satan? Sure, a man made one. Just like the fear that all the occult pratices are evil, and they are not. Hence, the reason for this topic.





[edit on 19-1-2009 by FiatLux]




posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:13 AM
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"All of this would be great Tom, if everyone believed as you do in Satan. But alas poor man, not everyone does. Your theory may work only if you take what the book says literally, but it was not written to be taken literally."

*****You see, you choose to not take it literally, but the Bible was meant to be taken literally. God is not a God of confusion or broken promises. Its like when you were young, and if you heard you mother jokely say, "if you take one more cookie before dinner, I'm going to cut your fingers off". You knew she was not serious which actually ends up bad parenting, but you just shrugged it off and left. The broken promise or the promise spoken, would not be carried out. God is not such a parent. The events happened exactly as they are described and the supernatural was natural in those days so that the Bible could be written and passed on to us today. It was given to us to take literal because it is his word to us about his world of what we call supernatural and how to enter into his world.

"Using a little common sense and reading between the lines one can figure out the meanings behind the book. "

*****Common sense? common sense does not apply when we are speaking about four dimensional beings trying to grasp the hidden universe of 5 dimensions to more...........and beings that live in these dimensions.

"So....is there a Satan? Sure, a man made one. Just like the fear that all the occult pratices are evil, and they are not. Hence, the reason for this topic."

*****Satan is not man made. He is real and he is active. He can come into and move out of this dimension. The given rituals are known by the high level Masons, Luciferians, and Satanist. You nave to ask yourself, how did I get here and what is the thing called a soul. Evolution is not even considerable as a method of how we got here, aliens do not exist per se......they are demonic entities with human form called Nephilim as this is another thread, and there are "Sons of God" which are fallen Angels that have human form that are the original Illuminati.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by tgambill
 


"*****You see, you choose to not take it literally, but the Bible was meant to be taken literally."

You keep rehashing that same thing, that it WAS meant to be taken literally. Show me where it is written in stone or even the book, that we ARE to take it litterally. And you said a mouthful when you said I choose to not take it literally. Your right, it`s my choice not to. That`s the nice thing about free will, i`m exercising it as the maker intended us to.

"*****Common sense? common sense does not apply when we are speaking about four dimensional beings trying to grasp the hidden universe of 5 dimensions to more...........and beings that live in these dimensions."

Lol, I find that statement funny. Throw out common sense? Why? Is that what we are to do to understand the book? You may want to, but i`m not going to in this lifetime. I would if I wanted fear and chaos to run my life. You may enjoy that way of life, but I don`t.

"*****Satan is not man made. He is real and he is active. He can come into and move out of this dimension. The given rituals are known by the high level Masons, Luciferians, and Satanist. You nave to ask yourself, how did I get here and what is the thing called a soul. Evolution is not even considerable as a method of how we got here, aliens do not exist per se......they are demonic entities with human form called Nephilim as this is another thread, and there are "Sons of God" which are fallen Angels that have human form that are the original Illuminati."

Again, your theory would make sense if everyone including myself took the book literally. And it`s nice to know we don`t have to. I find it strange, that I don`t go around telling everyone that they have to believe my views of the book, I only tell them how I see it, yet you do just the opposite, you want everyone to give up their free will so they believe it in the same way you do..........and that`s not a good thing to do, don`t take away something that the creator gave us, it`s not within your power to do that, only the creator can do that.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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I'm surprised but this speaker is EXACTLY on track and mirrors my research exactly. I have the evidence and this is DIRECTLY linked like tires to a car with the discussion on this forum. Its going to happen soon, 100% guaranteed.


www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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"You keep rehashing that same thing, that it WAS meant to be taken literally."

*****No, kidding? Now why would I want to keep saying the same thing? Could it be possible that this is the truth? Nothing has been said to change anything.

"Show me where it is written in stone or even the book, that we ARE to take it litterally."

******Written in stone...sure the 10 commandments given to Moses, but they're gone now but committed to the Bible on paper.
The Bible is explicit in as its the only source of Gods word. The King James Version only.....that is why Satan has inspired other Manmade versions taking out certain key verses to corrupt the word of God in certain ways.

"And you said a mouthful when you said I choose to not take it literally. Your right, it`s my choice not to. That`s the nice thing about free will, i`m exercising it as the maker intended us to. "

*****Then, when judgment comes and Jesus says depart from me you won't be disappointed when he sends you to Hell. Sorry to be so blunt. We have only two choices, not three our creator has set up.

"Lol, I find that statement funny. Throw out common sense? Why?"

******We are only four dimensional beings. Length, width, height and time. A one celled animal has no idea about four dimensions. A dog that can communicate with humans does not have the conception of time. So, the entities have different heirachical dimensions of time and space past four dimensions. Five or more up to at least 11 that we know of, is the world of God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, Arch Angels, angels, Lucifer/Satan, and his demons......How can a four dimensional being even begin to conceive of these entities that exist in the universe and we can't even see them. Imagine doing rituals and being able to summon these demons to our world which is that the HIGH Levels masons and Satanist are doing. Imagine an Angel that is of a higher dimension that does not need the rituals or summoning, but can appear by direction from God, right in front of you just like that..........would certainly shake your world. So, us, Humans use "common sense" to conceive of this supernatural world? I think not. Like trying to teach a Monkey to build a space rocket.......is an understatement.

"Is that what we are to do to understand the book? You may want to, but i`m not going to in this lifetime. I would if I wanted fear and chaos to run my life. You may enjoy that way of life, but I don`t."

*****you have two choices love and eternal peace or eternal torment as he has set it up. Without punishment we would not have a just God. A loving parent chastens those he loves. not allow them to do evil.......he establishes the rules we don't.

"Again, your theory would make sense if everyone including myself took the book literally. And it`s nice to know we don`t have to. I find it strange, that I don`t go around telling everyone that they have to believe my views of the book, I only tell them how I see it, yet you do just the opposite, you want everyone to give up their free will so they believe it in the same way you do"

*****No, I care about people. This is the truth. I don't want everyone to do anything. I'm just passing it on because I care as this is what is going to happen. Its not me, its the Bible and the Holy Spirit talking. The Clergy of today are not telling the truth from the Heirachy of the Roman Catholic dogma, the evangelcal Charasmatic movement. They are deviating from the Bible massively, inserting their own IDEAS of control Money, adultry, pedofiles, green prayer hankies..., sacred water viles?? false healings, agenteurs of the Illuminati agenda...etc.......it is designed that way. No wonder there are atheist or agnostics or folks going to false religions.......

"..........and that`s not a good thing to do, don`t take away something that the creator gave us, it`s not within your power to do that, only the creator can do that."

****He never will take away free will unless we allow him to lead our lives and voluntarily give him the drivers seat. Its not me......I'm just the messenger. I've got my own issues and sins that I repent from every day until that day comes we are in Heaven. The next Dimension.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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"All of this would be great Tom, if everyone believed as you do in Satan."

*******This is true. Lucifer's greatest trick or achievement was to convince the world that he does not exist. This way he can create ways to keep man distracted and busy and therefore not know that he is doing or living out of Gods commandments. The second way Satan comes to man is as Lucifer, or Angel of light and enlightment. This way the Masons high level, Vatican, and national leaders will see is manifestation as "Spiritual" or New Age enlightenment. The third way Satan/Lucifer comes to mankind is by being Satan. Evil, human sacrifices, animal sacrifices, demonology, murders, etc.......gothic, Occult, with various levels of this to appeal to different groups. Music goes a long way to facilitate this.


"But alas poor man, not everyone does. Your theory may work only if you take what the book says literally, but it was not written to be taken literally."

*****Its not me that is going to hurt. Its freewill, I'm just the messenger. It was written to be taken literally. However, the better way to say it, is that you chose not to take it literally. In all due respect, because you don't take it literally doesn't mean that you know how the Bible is to be taken. I have studied this and know that the Bible is to be taken literally as it says. However, due to free will the proper term is that you choose not to take the Bible literally.


"Using a little common sense and reading between the lines one can figure out the meanings behind the book."

****No, its what we want to see fit so that we can rewrite it to fit our needs instead of conforming to truth.

"So....is there a Satan? Sure, a man made one. Just like the fear that all the occult pratices are evil, and they are not. Hence, the reason for this topic."

*****To downplay that the occult is Satanic, the design is to make Satan non-existent. He does exist. The demon world has a rank structure for each continent.



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


Fiatlux:

There are good angels and there are evil angels. For this post I am only going to be discussing the evil angels.

Divine revelation also teachess the existence of evil angels whose intense malignity against God causes them to oppose his operations for men's wellfare by tempting men to oppose themselves to his holy will. The existence of such beings is rationally possible and is usually denied only by those denying good angel too.

How beings so vile came to be has been a matter of much inquiry. They must either be eternal or else were divinely created. It has usually been assumed that only God is eternal. "By him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible" (Col. 1:16) This text is fairly good ground for supposing evil angels are not eternall, but created by God. But why would God create such evil beings? Therefore he must have created them holy and they became sinfu lin character by their own acts, as has man.

"God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down in hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment" (2 Peter 2:4)

Angels were at one tme all holy and on probation. Some sinned and lost their holy estate. What was the nature of their sin is not stated. It has been supposed from 1 Timothy 3:6, that it was pride and self-exalation. As sinful men are opposed to the kingdom of righteousness so are these sinful angels.
'
One evil spirit is superior in rank and power to the others. He is called Beelzebub, the prince of devils; Satan, the adversary; the devil or the slander; the evil one; the prince of darkness; Belial; and the tempter. The number of demons is great.

The general nature and powers of demons are simuilar to those of holy angels. They have greater power and knowledge then men. Satan, it appears, is superior in power to the demons over whom he is ruler, but there is no reason for assuming he is all-powerful, omniscient, or omnipresent. It is certain God has greater power from the fact that Satan could not tempt Job only by divine permission. Also God will not suffer us to be tempted above that we are able to bear (Cor. 10:13). The limitation of Satan's knowledge is evident from his failure to know that Job would endure his trial. But even the demons have superhuman knowledge is shown by their immediate recognition of Jesus' divinity when he approched them.

Though not omipresent, yet Satan may possess the power of instantaneous movement from place to place. Also it is possible that he could work in many places simultaneously through the demons as agents. Probably no salvation is now provided for demons, although it is possible that it was once offered to them.

Satan and demons are employed exclusively, as far as is revealed, in opposing God's moral government. Satan temped Eve in Eden under the guise of a serpent. He also tempted Job and Jesus. He sows tares in men's hearts to hinder the gospel and catches away the good seed of God's Word. He entices men through physical desires and otherwise. What mode is by which he has access to men's minds to tempt them is not stated in the Bible, but it is probably by direct influence over the mind as is the usual method of the Holy Spirit.

Why does God allow Satan to continue to endeavor to turn men from God is probably not altogether answerable. It may be answered by asking another question, Why does God not annihilate wicked men? It is proper in his wisdom that apostate free beings should be allowed to choose their course. Also, God is doubtless more glorified by the preservation of the righteous among such temptations and by their faithful endurance of temptations.

So, you still may choose to deny that Satan exists, but he knows you exist. I do not believe that one can believe in God and say there is no Satan. To believe in one you must believe in both. It is all in the Bible. I know you choose not to hold the Bible in high esteam, but it is in there just the same.

I do not fear Satan. I know that Christ has already defeated him. But I also know that he is like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. We all must be alert and never let our guard down. I am of the belief the stronger you are in your faith and communion to the Father, the more he will try to snatch it away. Because we become a threat to him.

Just my thoughts. Take or leave them for what you will


Peace,
Grandma



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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Grandma,

I'm in awe and I'm not going to be put into my place by debating with you.

you know your Bible, and this was the best description I've ever read from a poster. I'm keeping this for my own files if you don't mind as I want to reread this often.

Like I said, everyone I meet is my teacher. Very discernable answer and I appreciate the opportunity to have read it................



posted on Jan, 19 2009 @ 11:47 PM
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reply to post by tgambill
 



"*****No, kidding? Now why would I want to keep saying the same thing? Could it be possible that this is the truth? Nothing has been said to change anything."

Who knows when it comes to a fundamentalist. Maybe your trying to keep yourself convinced.

"******Written in stone...sure the 10 commandments given to Moses, but they're gone now but committed to the Bible on paper. The Bible is explicit in as its the only source of Gods word. The King James Version only.....that is why Satan has inspired other Manmade versions taking out certain key verses to corrupt the word of God in certain ways."

The King James version only? What do you think your trying to sell? What a load of arrogance. There are other religions out there in this great big beautiful world that may not agree with you. Just because some may be of other cultures does not make them wrong by any means.


"*****Then, when judgment comes and Jesus says depart from me you won't be disappointed when he sends you to Hell. Sorry to be so blunt. We have only two choices, not three our creator has set up."

I`m sorry, your scare tactics don`t work on me Tom, not by any means. Your so full of your book it makes you arrogant.

"******We are only four dimensional beings. Length, width, height and time. A one celled animal has no idea about four dimensions. A dog that can communicate with humans does not have the conception of time. So, the entities have different heirachical dimensions of time and space past four dimensions. Five or more up to at least 11 that we know of, is the world of God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, Arch Angels, angels, Lucifer/Satan, and his demons......How can a four dimensional being even begin to conceive of these entities that exist in the universe and we can't even see them. Imagine doing rituals and being able to summon these demons to our world which is that the HIGH Levels masons and Satanist are doing. Imagine an Angel that is of a higher dimension that does not need the rituals or summoning, but can appear by direction from God, right in front of you just like that..........would certainly shake your world. So, us, Humans use "common sense" to conceive of this supernatural world? I think not. Like trying to teach a Monkey to build a space rocket.......is an understatement."

Umm, I hate to break it to you, but, we live in the third dimension guy. I don`t know what level you think your at right now guy, but it sure isn`t the forth dimension.

"*****you have two choices love and eternal peace or eternal torment as he has set it up. Without punishment we would not have a just God. A loving parent chastens those he loves. not allow them to do evil.......he establishes the rules we don't"

God doesn`t punish us Tom, we do that ourselves. A god of love doesn`t punish anyone, and there is a big difference between being sent to Hell by God to burn and being sent to your bedroom by a parent. So please, enough of the comparisons, ok, there not even close.

"*****No, I care about people. This is the truth. I don't want everyone to do anything. I'm just passing it on because I care as this is what is going to happen. Its not me, its the Bible and the Holy Spirit talking. The Clergy of today are not telling the truth from the Heirachy of the Roman Catholic dogma, the evangelcal Charasmatic movement. They are deviating from the Bible massively, inserting their own IDEAS of control Money, adultry, pedofiles, green prayer hankies..., sacred water viles?? false healings, agenteurs of the Illuminati agenda...etc.......it is designed that way. No wonder there are atheist or agnostics or folks going to false religions......."

If you care about people, let them live out their lives without telling them how they have to do it. And another thing........stop judging others of different religions, you have no right to. You remind me of the people who wanted to stone the woman who was caught in the act of adultery. Only you want to cast stones at those religions you don`t even understand. So go ahead and cast your first stone......if your without sin.

"****He never will take away free will unless we allow him to lead our lives and voluntarily give him the drivers seat. Its not me......I'm just the messenger. I've got my own issues and sins that I repent from every day until that day comes we are in Heaven. The next Dimension."

No, he won`t take it away, your right. And you may think your a messenger Tom, but even messengers can get the message wrong at times also. "I've got my own issues and sins that I repent from every day until that day comes we are in Heaven" If that is the case, please continue to do so, and let others live their lives. You telling others how to believe is like one hospital patient giving another patient a prescription for medication.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by tgambill
I'm surprised but this speaker is EXACTLY on track and mirrors my research exactly. I have the evidence and this is DIRECTLY linked like tires to a car with the discussion on this forum. Its going to happen soon, 100% guaranteed.


www.youtube.com...


Jack Van Impe? Oh, one of those rich teleministers, yea....ooook, whatever. Yep, fear fear fear people, just send him the funds and and he will save you.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by Grandma
 


A nice thread and all Grandma, but one part I don`t believe.


"So, you still may choose to deny that Satan exists, but he knows you exist. I do not believe that one can believe in God and say there is no Satan. To believe in one you must believe in both. It is all in the Bible. I know you choose not to hold the Bible in high esteam, but it is in there just the same."

I disagree with you that one can believe in God and they must believe in Satan also. It may be in the Bible, but that doesn`t make Satan real. I believe Satan is nothing but a tool, used by the church to keep those church members in fear of being possessed so they will keep coming back to stay saved. I call it a power tool and nothing more.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 01:37 AM
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"The King James version only? What do you think your trying to sell? What a load of arrogance. There are other religions out there in this great big beautiful world that may not agree with you. Just because some may be of other cultures does not make them wrong by any means."

****Only the King James Version is the true word of God. If the other religions are true then that makes God a liar. As even a devout Atheist once said, Bertrand Russell, "All religions can be false, but only one can be true". He didn't realize how true that is. There can be only one and that one is not a religion, it is the truth of Jesus Christ. He didn't bring religion to Earth, man did. Jesus brought Redemption, Love and a personal relationship with the creator.

"Umm, I hate to break it to you, but, we live in the third dimension guy. I don`t know what level you think your at right now guy, but it sure isn`t the forth dimension."

*****Sorry, but scientist disagree with you. Four dimensions guy. Length width height and TIME!!!!

"In truth we cannot know what the experiment will throw up. When the particles start to collide in the LHC in October, they will generate an energy that will be like concentrating the energy from a head on collision between two high-speed electric trains into a pinpoint. The theory that the world will vanish in a black hole is only one of the fanciful suppositions about what will happen next. Another is that time travellers will use the wormhole in the space-time continuum generated in the LHC to pay us a visit. Professor Keith Mason, chief executive of the Science and Technology Facilities Council said: "I believe we are poised on the threshold of a new age of physics. Scientists waiting for the LHC dare to ask the biggest questions that exist in modern science. They want to test our understanding of the universe and find out if dark matter exists, whether the four dimensions of space-time are it or in fact there are eleven dimensions! They want to know why some particles have mass and some, like particles of light, don't."

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk...

"Height, width and length are obvious dimensions - it’s what gives us 3D. Time is the 4th dimension. Time has been described as a physical dimension. Our 5 senses makes us sensitive to these 4 dimensions.

Now Quantum Physics is saying that we exist on at least 10 dimensions. Four of which we are aware of, and 6 we have no clue about as our senses and mind have no capacity to fathom this. I can almost see Nachmonides rolling in his grave! These 6 other dimensions are said to be “curled beyond the Planck length” - geek talk for we don’t understand this stuff."

Jesus In His Resurrected Body

As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. And while they still disbelieved for joy and were marveling, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate before them. Mark 24: 36-44

In a locked room - a 3 dimensional concealed space, Jesus appears out of the blue. The disciples freak and think they have seen a ghost. Jesus says, “hey stop freaking out. I’m not a ghost. Touch my hand - I’m real. Give me something to eat!”

Mathematicians have concluded that for Jesus to have appeared in a physical state in a sealed 3 dimensional room, that He would have to be physically present on at least 11 dimensions.

www.layguy.com...

******I hate to keep doing this to you but I don't rely on opinions or a biased approach. I do research and work both sides to counter the other, research the authors and who backs them and read no less than three sources that say the same thing. there are four dimensions for mankind. Less for animals to one for a one celled animal. The supernatural has 11+ that we even know of.......

"God doesn`t punish us Tom, we do that ourselves. A god of love doesn`t punish anyone, and there is a big difference between being sent to Hell by God to burn and being sent to your bedroom by a parent. So please, enough of the comparisons, ok, there not even close."

***** You cannot change the Bible that was written by eyewitnesses and the last book was written between 70-90 AD. It was written by 40 different authors that were eyewitnesses, 66 different books, and over a period of 1,600 years. It is still changing lives, a best seller since 1611, and in the case of the OT longer than that. Billions have come and gone and not one contradiction and millions still follow it. Many enemies and many what would leave if the book was not true. Many before you and many now disagree with you. No offense meant but, How arrogrant is that for you to say emphatically that "God doesn't punish us" when the Bible says different. You don't have that right, but you can have your own opinion. God will send us to Hell if we do not take Jesus as our savior. JUST ONE SIN and not being saved WILL send a soul to HELL according to the same Bible that I spoke of...JUST ONE SIN no matter how small we think it is. God doesn't according to his laws.

"If you care about people, let them live out their lives without telling them how they have to do it. And another thing........stop judging others of different religions, you have no right to."

******I am and will witness as directed by God to people of the truth. I will not be silent. They have the choice to not listen, disagree, or walk away. I am charged as are all born again to witness and then let the Holy Spirit move. However, there are some Christians that condemn as judges and argue with malice, or act as enforcers which is wrong. I am not judging others I'm expressing the belief verbally.

Now, tell me about this......I suppose that this is okay, however. And you approve of Jehovah witnesses riding bikes to your house? Or We could always have missionaries blow themselves up in a Christian Jihad....okay? but, I have to be quiet and stop writing on the blogs? I see, this makes a lot of sense. Sorry, I guess my witnessing is way out of line....../sarc........

"Around the world, atheists hit road to knock down God Buzz Up
Mon Jan 19, 2009"

LONDON (AFP) – An atheist drive to persuade people that God doesn't exist is catching on in a surprising fashion -- on the sides of buses in a growing number of countries around the world.

With the concise message "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life," the campaign took to the road in Britain this month, while similar drives are underway or planned in Spain, Italy, Canada and Australia.

news.yahoo.com...

I assume that you take the side of the atheist in this point? Or part of this doctrine, a little of that doctrine and just a tad of that one.....now I have my own homemade god.

"You remind me of the people who wanted to stone the woman who was caught in the act of adultery. Only you want to cast stones at those religions you don`t even understand. So go ahead and cast your first stone......if your without sin."

******I understand the other religions. If I become a Mormon I will inherit AN ENTIRE PLANET....as I will become as God. True story of their dogma. If I am Muslim, I"m sure God will understand if I KILL those in other religions and myself for him. My own Jihad as a muslim. Okay.....If I decide to become a Hindu, i will just keep coming back again and again until I get it right. Now, which do I want.....I've always wanted my own planet......but what if I want to change? WIll God understand that and allow me. Or would the Creator have a set of rules and commandments for all. Since you don't believe in Satan, you can't say anything about the God of the Bible. You have your own religion with your own dogma.

"No, he won`t take it away, your right. And you may think your a messenger Tom, but even messengers can get the message wrong at times also."

*****Not when I passed High School. I had to be able to read to get into college and I passed my reading.
) Meaning, I read Bible, Bible gives the truth, I repeat the words in the Bible....simple.

"I've got my own issues and sins that I repent from every day until that day comes we are in Heaven" If that is the case, please continue to do so, and let others live their lives. You telling others how to believe is like one hospital patient giving another patient a prescription for medication. "

*****No, we are not in heaven by no stretch. People have the right to reject or accept. As long as the others recruit and try to discredit Jesus Christ.........I WILL SOUND OFF AND I WILL WITNESS AND WON'T STOP. Won't happen this lifetime. I will give my life or die for JESUS, without a second thought. The world will have to get used to it.....No bicycles, no Jihads, and no buses........just being a witness and that is how it will be while there is breath in my body.


[edit on 20-1-2009 by tgambill]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by tgambill
 


"****Only the King James Version is the true word of God. If the other religions are true then that makes God a liar. As even a devout Atheist once said, Bertrand Russell, "All religions can be false, but only one can be true". He didn't realize how true that is. There can be only one and that one is not a religion, it is the truth of Jesus Christ. He didn't bring religion to Earth, man did. Jesus brought Redemption, Love and a personal relationship with the creator."

Lol, that`s one for the books, a fundamentalist quoting an atheist to try and prove a point that his version of the Bible is the only true word of God. Please.....get real. And it`s not even a good point in your favor...........because that still doesn`t mean yours is the only true one.

"*****Sorry, but scientist disagree with you. Four dimensions guy. Length width height and TIME!!!! "

Geeez, I read that report. You still don`t get it do you? It`s not saying we live in four dimensions. That`s dimensions with an s, seperate ones, we only live in one dimension at a time, and the one were in now is the 3rd.......guy. Read it and understand it. They are saying, that there may be more then four dimensions, as many as 11, not that we live in four of them. The third dimension means, three dimensions of space, and one dimesion of time, and that time is fixed, meaning, it only moves in one direction. In the 4th dimension, there is an added movement or degree of freedom to time, it can move forward and backward. It`s the movement we have within that dimension that tells us which one it is. In the third, we can move up and down, forward and backward, and side to side, and we only move forward in time. The same goes for the forth, only, in time, we can move forward and backward. Now which one do you think we are in?

"******I hate to keep doing this to you but I don't rely on opinions or a biased approach. I do research and work both sides to counter the other, research the authors and who backs them and read no less than three sources that say the same thing. there are four dimensions for mankind. Less for animals to one for a one celled animal. The supernatural has 11+ that we even know of......."

If that is what you call research, as in Jack Van Impe, then you need to upgrade the way you research these things. As long as they all fall under the fundamentalist viewpoint, there good to go, right? I`m sorry Tom, that I don`t have a reality of restricted and narrow viewpoints that you may want to see, but that`s how real life is, we can think, dream, worship as we want, just as you can, no one is stopping you. Just don`t set there and tell me, i and everyone else have to do the same as you to be with God. We all have our own way of moving toward the creator, and as I have said before, it`s not up to you and your interpretation in a book, to tell others what they have to do to get there. It`s up to all of us in how we want to go about it.

"***** You cannot change the Bible that was written by eyewitnesses and the last book was written between 70-90 AD. It was written by 40 different authors that were eyewitnesses, 66 different books, and over a period of 1,600 years. It is still changing lives, a best seller since 1611, and in the case of the OT longer than that. Billions have come and gone and not one contradiction and millions still follow it. Many enemies and many what would leave if the book was not true. Many before you and many now disagree with you. No offense meant but, How arrogrant is that for you to say emphatically that "God doesn't punish us" when the Bible says different. You don't have that right, but you can have your own opinion. God will send us to Hell if we do not take Jesus as our savior. JUST ONE SIN and not being saved WILL send a soul to HELL according to the same Bible that I spoke of...JUST ONE SIN no matter how small we think it is. God doesn't according to his laws."

Who`s changing the Bible Tom? I`m not. I just don`t interpret it the way you do. Is it arrogant to believe that God is love? A loving God does not send his children to burn in Hell. When you love someone wholy, do you set them on fire for doing something they weren`t suppose to? Is that what you would do as a parent? Remember how you compaired the two? It really makes me wonder about you. So please, don`t call me arrogant when I don`t believe God wants to burn us for doing wrong. You can have your version of Hell Tom, and your God that wants to fry those who may do one sin. I don`t have the right NOT to believe your version of the Bible? Oh yes I do, as long as I have an open mind and can think for myself and use my free will I do. And you bet I can have my own opinion, because I just shared it with you.

"******I am and will witness as directed by God to people of the truth. I will not be silent. They have the choice to not listen, disagree, or walk away. I am charged as are all born again to witness and then let the Holy Spirit move. However, there are some Christians that condemn as judges and argue with malice, or act as enforcers which is wrong. I am not judging others I'm expressing the belief verbally."

Your right, you don`t have to be silent, I`m not saying you have to. You can say all you want as long as you want. You see, you are acting as a judge when you say we are wrong and have to believe as you do. Even if you say it`s in the book, it`s still not your place to make that judgement, it`s Gods. All you need to do is tell your version of it, and that`s it, leave it at that, the rest is up to God. In other words, you express your take on the book, and I express mine, then we leave it at that, the rest is in Gods hands.

"Now, tell me about this......I suppose that this is okay, however. And you approve of Jehovah witnesses riding bikes to your house? Or We could always have missionaries blow themselves up in a Christian Jihad....okay? but, I have to be quite and stop writing on the blogs? I see, this makes a lot of sense. Sorry, I guess my witnessing is way out of line....../sarc........"

Huh? What are you talking about? What does Jehovah witnesses riding bikes to my house, and Christians blowing themselves up have to do with me not having to believe as you do. That`s the point in ALL of what I`m saying Tom, I don`t have to believe as you do, I`m not going to narrow my view points and thinking just because you think the Bible says I have to. I never told you to be quiet or stop writing at all. In fact if you remember, I told you that you can come here and make a thousand threads telling me that I have to believe as you do to save myself, and then I`ll make a thousand saying that I don`t have to believe as you do to save myself. Oh, and by the way, are you calling me an atheist?

You better get a gripe Tom, I never said I didn`t believe in God. Your the one who`s thinking i don`t. I do believe in God, I just don`t see him as being the God who sends people to Hell as you do.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by tgambill
 


"******I understand the other religions. If I become a Mormon I will inherit AN ENTIRE PLANET....as I will become as God. True story of their dogma. If I am Muslim, I"m sure God will understand if I KILL those in other religions and myself for him. My own Jihad as a muslim. Okay.....If I decide to become a Hindu, i will just keep coming back again and again until I get it right. Now, which do I want.....I've always wanted my own planet......but what if I want to change? WIll God understand that and allow me. Or would the Creator have a set of rules and commandments for all. Since you don't believe in Satan, you can't say anything about the God of the Bible. You have your own religion with your own dogma."

And right there is a prime example of not knowing other religions. You group all Muslims together as Jihadists, and there not, many are good God loving people, it`s only the......and here`s the word......FUNDAMENTALIST Muslims that do that. Every religion has there fundamentalists, that doesn`t make all the rest bad or God haters. Your right, beings I don`t believe in Satan, I don`t have to believe in your version of God. I`ll still believe in a loving God though.

"*****Not when I passed High School. I had to be able to read to get into college and I passed my reading. ) Meaning, I read Bible, Bible gives the truth, I repeat the words in the Bible....simple."

Well good for you Tom.....so did I. I was taught to use an open mind about all things and even in reading the Bible. I wasn`t just taught to read and repeat like that. I was taught to think about what was being said, and why it was being said, and for who it was being said, the reasons for all of it. You can repeat words a thousand times, that doesn`t mean that you understand the meaning or reasons behind them.

"*****No, we are not in heaven by no stretch. People have the right to reject or accept. As long as the others recruit and try to discredit Jesus Christ.........I WILL SOUND OFF AND I WILL WITNESS AND WON'T STOP. Won't happen this lifetime. I will give my life or die for JESUS, without a second thought. The world will have to get used to it.....No bicycles, no Jihads, and no buses........just being a witness and that is how it will be while there is breath in my body."

You have to understand something in what you just said. It`s those others trying to discredit Jesus. I`m not discrediting Jesus in any way shape or form. You can give your life or die for Jesus all you want, just don`t try driving your version of God and the Bible down my throat in the process. I`m not going to stand still and have it pushed on me like that, no way.







[edit on 20-1-2009 by FiatLux]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by Grandma
 



Hello mother, Im sure you knew we would bonk heads here, with all do respect for your thoughts and feelings, I will add my own as well.

Satan only exists in the realm of mans thought.

I can choose to do things that are selfish today, or I can choose to do things for others today. This is not Satan or God....it is I who chooses.

The thought or idea of Satan and God being separate things is distortion.

To believe in Satan as a being....one must believe that man was made unworthy and unholy. Satan was born by man, in mans thoughts, and truly does exists if man gives him power to do so. God made us with a balance in our consciousness. All bad things have a purpose, it allows us to weigh what is good. We are our own adversaries, it is up to us to pay attention to guilt's or awareness that we could be better, do better....so over time, we evolve into a righteous consciousness as a whole.

We have two inner voices, one channels from our flesh body and can be prideful and greedy (experiencing the idea that we are separate). One emanates from our spirit, which is love and forgiving. This is why Jesus felt tempted by the darkness of flesh....knowing the feelings that the body and spirit conflict, knowing that he could make a unrighteous decision.....but he CHOSE to remain righteous. Satan is the voice of the flesh which distorts the voice of the spirit. The tempting voice is within every man that is of flesh....it is a part of the material vessel that distorts our spirits.

This is why man gives power by given this flesh voice a name and credit it the things we find to not be of spirit. This voice isnt a mistake.....it is a test to the spirit.....if we dont listen and weigh, surely we will be led by the voice of flesh and the ego will become our crown. If we listen to the voice of spirit, we then understand the need to forgive, love and live as Christ lived....for our other selves.

Everyone is awaiting individual salvation.....but in the highest heaven, your individual self doesn't even exists. In the highest heaven, you and Thee and I and everything holding the spirit of life....are ONE.

It is our job to unite and to overcome the consciousness of the flesh body. It was not a mistake that Eve and Adam came into flesh bodies. We are evolving in our spirits for works of the heavens.

The consciousness of our flesh bodies has a purpose, it is a part of Thee's plan, it is the only weigh we can learn to discern what is of spirit and mater, light and darkness. We would not be able to see the light without the darkness being there for the light to shine through. You cant understand the guilt of selfishness without experiencing being selfish. You cant understand the guilt of hate unless you experience what it feels like to be hated and loved. The environment of material worlds places these 2 voices in one body. Neither one has a name, but they both are the purpose of Thee. We are not supposed to be living in some material world without negative happenings. We are to have this distortion, it is a purpose of Thee.

To look at Thee as a God who is allowing all of these bad things because Satan rules here is misunderstood and distorts the Holy and what Thee's plan is.

How do you explain the hurricanes that kills people, or the waters that flood and take lives, or the natures that kill us? These are not of Satan, they are a part of this material experience....just as though our spirits can be distorted by our physical bodies.

Man needs to own up for their guilt's and wrongs and stop blaming Satan.

Show me where man has gone wrong, and show me that it wasn't that mans own physical self that should of taken the blame. It is our way for understanding why bad things exists. But let me tell you, they exists for a reason, they are a part of our growth, we evolve through catalysts.

By man over coming the body of flesh, we overcome our Satan. It is the mixing of spirit and matter, it is cause and effect. Can other mens evils come into our consciousness.....you betcha. We are all tied together.

My best,
LV

[edit on 20-1-2009 by LeoVirgo]



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:09 AM
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The Earth was not created for us, neither was the universe created for us. We were made for the same reasons everything was made. We are manifestations of Thee as well as the Earth and Universe is manifestations of Thee. Everything is entangled, intertwined, serving a purpose for the other. God is within me, just as though Thee is within the wind, trees, grass and animals and stars. We are all connected through Thee.

This is our purpose, to understand, all is ONE. By focusing on Satan, we are not understanding that this physical body doesn't exists in the ONE. Angels didnt fall....they came at will, to help their ONE. Its a will for the ONE making sure no light is lost.

The idea that we are to die and worship a God for eternity is not our purpose of understanding the ALL, the I AM. Thee does not want worship, Thee wants unity. Man has made divisions of the ONE. The colors of race, the different religions, are all a part of our test of spirit in body....testing us to see if we are ready for the ONENESS or if we still need to experience separation.

I do not believe there are any souls that experience a eternity without God. To believe in a Satan that is separate from God, causes one to think of a damning God who doesnt understand how hard it is for spirit to discern itself in the flesh. God does understand this hardship, and has perfected it.....and recycles all lights that are not ready.

Man never fell, angels never fell....God doesn't created things imperfect. God does not create something that is a mistake.

Even the flesh body and material realms manifested from God. The material flesh distorts our understandings and our knowledge, but in the end, it actually enlightens our understanding and knowledge.

Man became greedy in the flesh body, believing he/her was truly separate. It is a test, if you want to call it Satan, then by all means, that is fine, but you are actually giving too much credit to your physical voice....instead, just say, you have no power over me, for my true body is not of this flesh.

Apologizes for going off topic once again....

LV



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 09:31 AM
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The manifestations of rulers or powers that are spiritual are manifested by man, just as things are manifested by Thee.

If we distort the nature of Thee....then we see a distorted power come into play. For example, Yahweh and archeons. If man see's God as a wrathful ruler, then this is the channel that man received, a wrathful and ruling channel of Thee. It is a distortion. If your heart is loving, compassionate, peaceful and forgiving, then the channel of Thee comes less distorted to us, and we begin to see Thee's purest nature. If we are seeking power, then the channel will come as a deportment of power.

We truly are co creators. Our thoughts hold the power in themselves. We are becoming something as a whole unit....the road is long yes. The more we see ourselves as separate, the more we channel the power of God, without the wholeness of Thee's love and perfection. The more we see ourselves as a whole, the more we understand we must forgive those we do not know what they do, the more we understand, Thee is truly love. We are only able to see Thee as we are ready to understand Thee's nature. The idea of I and the Father are ONE leads one to understand, you and I are one also. Then compassion opens, then selfish acts are no more, then we truly begin to shine the unblemished lights. If your heart is blemished with power and rule, then you will receive a blemished channel of Thee.

This is where power, rule and archeons manifest from Thee. It is by man, that this happens. One only receives what one is ready to understand. This is why different cultures evolved with certain beliefs, this is why we see rulers gaining physical power, this is why we see monks spending their entire day in silence, we only receive what we are ready for. It is a process....the ones clinging to Satan are not ready to realize, All if ONE. They are still living in the realms of separation, hoping that their individual self be saved.

Thee is waiting on us....Thee is not going to come here fixing what man hasnt learned yet. Thee is not going to interfere with the misunderstood. Thee will wait and continue laying paths for all to reach the highest heaven....and become ONE with Thee again.

OK, I think I am done *smiles*......


LV



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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"And right there is a prime example of not knowing other religions. You group all Muslims together as Jihadists, and there not, many are good God loving people, it`s only the......and here`s the word......FUNDAMENTALIST Muslims that do that."

******Hey, I know that. You see here is a prime example of you putting words in my mouth and making assumptions. I lived in Saudi Arabia for four years, setting up protection against terrorist that had targeted US Military advisors from 1995 to 1999. I know about Islam first hand. Again, what about the fundalmentalist? What about the Muslim religion and its tenants? Its still different but you know they actually believe that Jesus existed, its just he is not divine.

"Every religion has there fundamentalists, that doesn`t make all the rest bad or God haters. Your right, beings I don`t believe in Satan, I don`t have to believe in your version of God. I`ll still believe in a loving God though."

****wow, MAN's belief in God does not DEFINE who God is......or what he will do.

"Well good for you Tom.....so did I. I was taught to use an open mind about all things and even in reading the Bible. I wasn`t just taught to read and repeat like that. I was taught to think about what was being said, and why it was being said, and for who it was being said, the reasons for all of it. You can repeat words a thousand times, that doesn`t mean that you understand the meaning or reasons behind them."

*****Hmmm, this is a true statement or better said; I agree with this.

"You have to understand something in what you just said. It`s those others trying to discredit Jesus. I`m not discrediting Jesus in any way shape or form. You can give your life or die for Jesus all you want, just don`t try driving your version of God and the Bible down my throat in the process. I`m not going to stand still and have it pushed on me like that, no way."

*****"You vell believe vat I tells you to believe or it vell make me berry angry....
)"

I couldn't help it, had to say it......lol. Its all about free will and sharing our beliefs. The Holy Spirit will start to work when the heart is open.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by tgambill
 



"******Hey, I know that. You see here is a prime example of you putting words in my mouth and making assumptions. I lived in Saudi Arabia for four years, setting up protection against terrorist that had targeted US Military advisors from 1995 to 1999. I know about Islam first hand. Again, what about the fundalmentalist? What about the Muslim religion and its tenants? Its still different but you know they actually believe that Jesus existed, its just he is not divine."

I`m not putting or trying to put words in your mouth at all. What about fundamentalists, well, they are extremists bent on forcing their beliefs on others. In other words, telling others they HAVE to believe as they do, or pay the price. They can make one pay in many ways, from death to just plain brow beating others till they give in. They use anything from the threat of being killed by them, to the threat of being sent to Hell by God to burn. But you knew all of that already. No one is put here to force beliefs on others, that is not our purpose.

"****wow, MAN's belief in God does not DEFINE who God is......or what he will do."

If you have to look at it in that light then....you also fall under that rule. Your belief is no better then anyone elses, even if you believe a book tells you that it is. Your a man, right? You have been trying to define to me who you believe God to be, right? You have been trying to define to me what he will do, right? As you put it all the time.....simple.

"*****Hmmm, this is a true statement or better said; I agree with this."

Ok, at least we agree on one thing. Good for us.


"*****"You vell believe vat I tells you to believe or it vell make me berry angry....)"

I couldn't help it, had to say it......lol. Its all about free will and sharing our beliefs. The Holy Spirit will start to work when the heart is open."

So we can put this to rest, right? I`m willing to if you are.



posted on Jan, 20 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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Of course I'm ready to put it to rest......I don't "argue" over God's word, just share and move on. For any of us to define God or understand all is like trying to poor the ocean into a cup.......Even Born Again Christians don't agree in the same Bible study group.
) Been there and done that......lol





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