Occultism is not Satanism

"I just want to note that coming to God out of fear for the satan or hell is not the way of a divine offering of ones self for Thee. Fear actually misleads one to understand the unconditional love. If you fear that you might not do something right and this will result in you going to hell....you are missing what the divine nature is."

******not at all. We don't define God, he defines us and he created us. He left us his true word and the commandments. He has revealed his nature to us. The divine nature is that he is a loving God, a parent, an enforcer, a just God that wants no one to go to Hell but he is also a just God and a jealous God, and a wrathful God if his commandments are not followed. The wages of sin is death even one. He gave us an out to repent and follow his commandments, but its our choice. LV, we don't make the rules or tell God how he is going to be. He tell us and we follow.

"Its not hard to see this. The life of Jesus says it all. Even though it was said that a man would have to shed blood for the final sacrifice and even though men did kill Christ....which was something according to that religion that Must be done for us all to be forgiven....Jesus still says....For give them, for they know not what they do."

******LV, they didn't kill JESUS. Jesus died and brought himself back to life to be our savior. LV, Jesus is God veiled, to come down to us and be out savior. Its all about blood, sin and the original sin from Adam. All the new Age rationalization won't take away from the truth. All of Gods prophets have warned of his judgement that is coming upon this Earth. False prophets like Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, the list is vast have clue what a prophet is God is like. These are false prophets of Satan and will be judged as such.

"It is unconditional. Claiming Christ or God out fear from hell is not the narrow path."

*****Says who?? you are not correct. It is conditional upon our acceptance of Jesus Christ, not CHRIST without name, but Jesus alone. Its not fear, it a warning that this is the punishment for sin. Pick which you want for your eternity. All the wishful thinking and philosophy won't change truth. Its not my truth, it is the truth that God has told us.

"he taught us how to raise our vibrations through offering, forgiveness, compassion, mercy and grace."

****those are fruits of the spirit. But Jesus said, I am the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except though me. His words alone.

"If you think God is a demanding, ruling, controlling kind of God. Surely, that is what your after life will be. The ideas of us being co-creators is too much for most...but yet, dangerous to those that believe in a God demanding a eternity of worship."

*****Read the Bible and discover God, but only the King James Version or not. Its up to you and your acceptance of Jesus Christ.

"Its very simple really. A divine nature does not bring you to Thee through fear, through blood, or through demands and force. These all defeat the purpose of what we are here for and blemishes the divine in the eyes of man."

*****I'm sorry, but you don't know the true nature of the God that created our universe and will bring us into eternity. Satan is real and he is allowed to roam and tempt to lead us away......

"Seek and you shall find. I dont imagine this is talking about scriptures. "

******This what I'm trying to tell you.........Seek and you shall find.

The Bible tells us what to seek first:

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness;

and all these things shall be added unto you.
The Bible promises results for our seeking efforts (also in Luk 11:9-10):
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you;
seek, and ye shall find;
knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and
he that seeketh findeth; and
to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
God created mankind to seek:
Act 17:27 That they [all nations of men] should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
In the Bible's Old Testament, the encouragement continues:
Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
And again in:
Jer 29:12 Then shall ye call upon me [the Lord], and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me [the Lord], and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

Finally, Jesus Christ invites us to open the door to Him:
Rev 3:20 Behold [Here I am!], I [Jesus Christ] stand at the door, and knock: if any man [anyone] hear[s] my voice, and open[s] the door, I will come in to him, and will sup [eat] with him, and he with me.
Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord & Saviour, and from this day forward, you are a born again Christian, destined for eternity in Heaven, bypassing the white throne judgment of God (Rev 20:6, 11).
To accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour, thereby accepting God's free gift of everlasting life and salvation through Jesus, God's only begotten Son, go to:

LV, we need to go back to the occult vs Satanism or whatever, and discuss the religious aspect elsewhere. This is perfectly linked but the link is not understood by others.

"I'm sorry, but you don't know the true nature of the God that created our universe and will bring us into eternity"

****You might want to let God know that I am not following the correct way...because Thee has shown me other wise. You might want to leave the judging up to Thee for you might not understand how Thee judges.

I only speak because I have been shown things that no book will explain...only through seeking Thee for the will of a divine nature and for service to others has Thee shown me how unconditional Thee is.

You might want to let God know that I am not of pure spirit, because for about 9 months now....Thee has thought other wise of me. My purpose is not for me, it is for others. My purpose is not of a self, it is for Thee. When I knocked....this is what Thee showed me.

When I took the turn down the narrow path, I knew, there was no turning back. I knew I would have to share what Thee showed me, there is no other way. Its not for my will....and this is what allowed me to see this narrow path.

I speak because the masses follow a need of blood for God, a need of rejection from God, a punishment for the souls who "know not what they do". When you forgive those souls that are still lost, you make a claim to the heavens of love and forgiveness. This is a key to open realms no book will show you. Have you ever felt God smile?? It is the most amazing thing that no earthly words could give credit to.

I can only speak what I have been shown. Me going against what Thee has shown me would be worse then someone going against a book that they believe in.

My best,
LV

reply to post by tgambill


agreed....but I thank you for the conversations.....its been a pleasure.

By best to you always tgambill

Peace to you and yours
LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo


"Fear actually misleads one to understand the unconditional love. If you fear that you might not do something right and this will result in you going to hell....you are missing what the divine nature is."

Good point. But yet, sometimes fear can motivate someone to search for answers as to why these things are happening to them. It is during this time when, if all else fails when we look around us for the answers and we don`t find them, that is the time to look within, not without.


"....Jesus still says....For give them, for they know not what they do."

Yes...."Forgive them, for they know not what they do." simply saying, they were a part of the Divine Plan, but they did not understand that. In other words, how was the Divine Plan to go forward if those men would not have placed him on the cross? They all had a part in the Divine Plan.

"It is unconditional. Claiming Christ or God out fear from hell is not the narrow path. It is a very wide path that misleads one from understanding the unblemished nature. Offering ones flesh body for the will of the divine nature is what Jesus did, this is why he is unblemished, he remained righteous, even when the fanatics through his death would result in the forgiveness of their sins. Even when the material body (flesh) tempted the spirit of Christ, the divine remained unblemished. He taught us what to strive for...he taught us how to raise our vibrations through offering, forgiveness, compassion, mercy and grace"

Yes, it is so easy to just say, well, i`ll never sin again so I can go to Heaven. No, it`s much more then that. It`s understanding that we are not seperate from one another, but that we are tied together through what is inside of us. And what is inside of us, is that small part of God. THAT is why we must look within, not just reading a book and saying, i`ll never sin again. We must all search and find within us that part of God.

"There is a purpose for all things, even negative things. So instead of fearing these 'rulers'....I place faith that its a part of a balance for discernment. You can live in fear of it, or get over that fear and allow the balance of light to work through you to remove the fear in others."

What you said are very good words to follow. Very well said, very well put. They can continue on in fear, or, find that light which is within us. When this is done, the balance will then be made.

Over all LV, your thread says it the best.

reply to post by FiatLux


HI ya FiatLux,

Well it has been interesting seeing the diversity of how one interprets how truth and light can come to a being.

Ive enjoyed reading your posts!

Its a joy seeing other lights shining forth.......

My best,
LV

I wish you the best......This pastor hits the nail on the head and is exactly right on. Your life and I don't know where you live but I can say without any doubt that your life, my life and F's life is going to change shortly.

The time is here and its soon. Talking about the Occult, satanism and the NWO, all linked, is given here.......its 100% correct and gives you 12 months of predictions given not by supernatural means but given by the very people controlling it......

video.google.com...

reply to post by Skyfloating



Skyfloating, how very, very true...

Originally posted by Skyfloating
.

Millions of Christian and Islamic tracts, books, videos, sermons warn of the "dangers of the occult",

Because they fear an overthrow... They, not individual Christians or Muslims, but those who control the institution of those religions would rather continue fighting their wars and destroying life than to have man's spiritual eyes opened.

[edit on 17-1-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by LeoVirgo

OT:
Hi LV,

Same goes for me. i`ve enjoyed the discussion myself. So many different views out there in this big world. But over all, everything is coming together on schedule as the plan is set.

Thanks for all the veiws LV, Tom, and all who took part in this. Take care.

You also......its a learning experience. I have found out that EVERYONE I meet is my teacher, no matter who. I am a student.

Sincerely. Tom

reply to post by tgambill


tgambill:

I disagree with you about Abraham, David, Moses, Elijah, and Enoch and their relationship to God without Christ. Yes, it is true that the Father and Christ are the one and the same, but at this moment in time the Scriptures only mention the name God,,,,,,,,just God.

And as you do a little further reading:
Moses in Deuteronomy 5:3
"It was not with our fathers that the Lord (not Jesus) made this covenant, but with us who are alive here today. The Lord (not Jesus) spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain."

4:26 "But because of you the Lord (not Jesus) was angry with me and would not listen to me. That is enough, the Lord (not Jesus) said. Do not speak to me anymore about this matter. Go upto the top of Pisgah and look west and north and south and east. Look at the land with your own eyes, since you are not going to cross the Jordn."

Abraham in Genesis 12
The Lord (not Jesus) had said to Abram, Leave your counrty, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you.

In Genesis 12 7
The Lord appeared to Abram. (The Lord, not Jesus appeared)

Now if you want to bring up the fact that Melchizedek blessed Abram and could have been Jesus the High Priest who was the only one who could have blessed Abram. So through that fact Abram came to God through Christ.

Now about King David
I Samuel 16 7
But the Lord (not Jesus) said to Samuel, "The Lord (not Jesus) does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord ( not Jesus) looks at the heart.

16:12 So he sent and had him (David) brought in. He was ruddy, with a fine appearance and handsome features. Then the Lord (not Jesus) said, "Rise and anoint him; he is the one.

2 Samuel 7: 18 "Who am I, O Sovereign Lord, (not Jesus) that you have brought me this far? And as if this were not enough in your sight, O Sovereign Lord, you have spoken about the future of the house of your servant. Is this your usual way of dealing with man. O sovereign Lord.

David asks "is this your usual way of dealing with man" Now, how cool is that! No fear there.......just ask the question because the communion between David and God was one of love not fear.

Now about the Occult issue we are talking about it would seem fitting here to mention that King Saul had a evil spirit enter him because he consulted a medium. God did not like that.

Now we have Elijah
He was taken to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kings 2:11-12 It says that Ellisha saw all this. He then picked up the cloak that had falle from Elijah when he went to heaven. Must have had a very close communion with God the Father to not face death. He even appears again with Jesus at the and Moses at the transfiguration of Jesus. So by that we know that Moses went to heaven also.

Now to Enoch in Hebrews 11:5
By faith (get that by faith) Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God (not Jesus) had taken him away. For before he ws taken, he was commended as one who pleased God (not Jesus) And without FAITH it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must BELIEVE that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Hebrews go on to tell us "All these people were sill living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And the admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. People who say such things show that they are looking for a counrty of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they were longing for a better country- A Heavenly One.

The Heavenly Father is indeed a mystery. He has shown great compassion to all of the above. And I agree to a point that there should be Godly fear.....but not the kind of fear you are talking about. One should NEVER come to the Father out of fear. He doesn't desire that kind of heart in his children. He wants us to come to him out of love. A love as David had said about Jonathan where he tells him in a song how dear he was to him. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women. To love God is to love deepr than the normal kind of love. Unless one has felt the depth and reach of God's love, it is really hard to explain it. But it should be our hearts desire that we can live it and show it everyday to everyone we meet.

Love our brother and sisters and our Lord, God, with all our heart, and all our mind, and all our soul. and body. All of us belongs to God. We all are a part of him. He put a spark in all out hearts and with the help of the Holy Spirit that spark will become a burning fire for a light in the darkness to show everyone the way home.


Peace to you,
Grandma

Grandma, you have assumed that my definition of fear was being afraid and this is not true. Don't assume. I understand the fear that is given to God is respect and love, and not the fear that causes one to be afraid. This is the label that the others have assumed, not me.

In the Old Testament, a "son of god" was not the same Son of God after Jesus was born, died and rose again to be our savior. A son of God in the Old testament was Adam born of the breath of God with no mother or father. The "sons of God" were fallen angels of Genesis 6, mated with Daughters of man, to create the Angelic hybrids called nephilim. They exist today and are the alleged "Aliens" that people think come from Space. Another discussion in a way. they brought the Occult, and all that comes with it. Jesus was Gods only begotten son because he was born of Gods seed and Mary, of the royal line of David. Joseph could not be the father due to lacking the royal line. He was sinless and died sinless and rose to be our Messiah

We can only have a relationship with God through Jesus, and the only way we can become sons or Daughters of God. The ones you mentioned in the Old testament were directly confronted by God, visions, or dreams directly. They were also sons of man and not sons of God. Nowhere in the Bible will you find one that is referred to as a Son of God. They were chosen by God to be chosen but not sons of God. It was time for blood sacrifices and this ended when Jesus was born and made our perfect lamb. This is the issue when the Anti-Christ comes into the game yet to come, and in Daniel 9:27 stops sacrifices. Sometime in the very near future the Jews will rebuild the Temple and they will start the blood sacrifices in the near future.


"The Heavenly Father is indeed a mystery. He has shown great compassion to all of the above. And I agree to a point that there should be Godly fear.....but not the kind of fear you are talking about. One should NEVER come to the Father out of fear. He doesn't desire that kind of heart in his children. He wants us to come to him out of love."

*****Uh yes....and this is what the others were assuming the fear meant, not me. Make no mistake he loves us all but, he is coming back to judge all those on earth and all those that have ever lived. He will be a God of wrath in according to the Scriptures. You can't just pick and chose verses you like. You cannot forget that he will destroy 1/3 of mankind, he destroyed sinful man corrupted by the seed of nephlim, in the flood, and the next tribulations will be the full fury of Gods wrath. It will be well deserved as man has turned his back on the sacrifice of Jesus and Jesus will not come back to bring people together per his own words, he will come back to judge. The Anti-Christ yet to come will fool many people...........11 Thess.

reply to post by tgambill

tgambill:

I agree with you that Christ is coming back We are living between two advents of Christ into this world. At first he appeared incarnate to reveal the way of salvation and to make atonement for sin. He will come again at some future time in great power and glory to raise the dead, judge the world, and destory the earth

Though the fact of the Lord's coming is generally held by Christians, yet all do not allow a future personal coming of Christ I believe the Scriptures clearly teach a second, personal, visible coming of Christ which is yet future.

(Acts 1:11) "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

(Matthew 26:64) "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

(Rev. 1:7) "Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which piereced him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

As his first advent was personal, so is the second coming of Christ to be personal. Men ought always be ready to meet him.

I believe we are now in the "evening time," but the extent to which "it shall be light," or how long the evening time shall continue we have no means of knowing

Yes, I agree that the time is short and the unsaved must be reached. We will reach them with our hearts on fire with the love of the Lord. They will see Christ through us and our life. Everyone we meet should see Jesus in us and through us. If we are truly his children others will see the light glowing from our soul within. We are the light in the darkness. We must shine bright and clear to show others the way home.


Peace to you,
Grandma

"I agree with you that Christ is coming back We are living between two advents of Christ into this world. At first he appeared incarnate to reveal the way of salvation and to make atonement for sin. He will come again at some future time in great power and glory to raise the dead, judge the world, and destory the earth"

*****Bingo.......and that time is very very short. It has been revealed to me how Satan has controlled this world to date and how he will be allowed to fulfill prophesy. Its an amazing story and agenda. we are in deep deep trouble in the US today........Very soon.

"Though the fact of the Lord's coming is generally held by Christians, yet all do not allow a future personal coming of Christ I believe the Scriptures clearly teach a second, personal, visible coming of Christ which is yet future.'

*****you are exactly right on. A rapture at some time we don't know and a second return where Jesus's feet will touch down and he will reign. The next one that comes WILL NOT be Jesus. He will be a Christ but not Jesus.

"(Acts 1:11) "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

(Matthew 26:64) "Hereafter shall ye see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."

(Rev. 1:7) "Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which piereced him; and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

As his first advent was personal, so is the second coming of Christ to be personal. Men ought always be ready to meet him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

*****Spot on.........

"I believe we are now in the "evening time," but the extent to which "it shall be light," or how long the evening time shall continue we have no means of knowing"

******Exactly.....

www.youtube.com...

"Yes, I agree that the time is short and the unsaved must be reached. We will reach them with our hearts on fire with the love of the Lord. They will see Christ through us and our life. Everyone we meet should see Jesus in us and through us. If we are truly his children others will see the light glowing from our soul within. We are the light in the darkness. We must shine bright and clear to show others the way home."

*****Grandma, this won't work. How can we argue when we agree on every point? Oh well, I guess we will just have to agree, thats all.

We don't have much time.....We cannot know the day or the hour but we can know the season, according to Daniel 9:24 [70th week]. Not even Jesus knows the hour of his return. Can you imagine?

www.biblegateway.com...

Matthew 24:36-44 (King James Version)

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


Now, according to God's word, he will not allow those in the Occult into Heaven. The Occult is part of Satanism that gives man a limited view into the Occult but hated by God. In accordance with scripture.

"There is a price to pay for dabbling in things that the God of the Bible has forbidden. Occult practitioners can mock this statement, and those who consider themselves too 'intelligent' and 'scientific' to accept this to be true can laugh, but one of many questions they cannot answer is this simple fact: those who have given their lives over to the Lord Jesus Christ have been given the authority to call upon His name to set captives free (Luke 4:8). The Christian message is one of love and, while there are some ignorant Christians who foolishly berate and ridicule those involved in these occultic rites, we would only seek to inform the occultist that Jesus is the Name to be called on when you finally realise the danger you have exposed yourselves to. Please do not leave it too late."



Occultic supernatural power counterfeits the spiritual gifts conferred by the Holy Spirit, e.g. by prophecy, healing, channelling, astral travel and other 'signs and false wonders' (2 Thessalonians 2:9) such as witchcraft, 'magic', palm reading, fortune telling, ouija boards, tarot cards, satanism, spiritism, animism; astrology; divination; fetishism, demons and the use of crystal balls. To this list we could add much more.



www.thechristianexpositor.org...









[edit on 18-1-2009 by tgambill]

OT:

Ok people, enough of the Bible verses. That isn`t what this topic is about, remember? "Occultism is not Satanism"

What does quoting Bible verses have to do with the topic? If you want to quote verses, please start a new topic about it.

reply to post by FiatLux

Fiatlux:

Do the Scripture verses brother you my friend? We were talking about Occultism vs Satanism.

King Saul lost his kingdom because he consulted a medium. God caused an evil spirit to enter him because he used witchcraft.

That alone should tell everyone that the Lord does not want his children to dabble into Occultism.

Now does Occultism mean also Satanism? No I don't think so. I believe one could dabble into the occult and not be involved in Satanism. But I also believe that it does open a very dangerous door that could allow for that to happen. Occult means hidden.......it means hidden for a reason. It means not to find.......not to uncover. It means DANGER!

Now does one who is involved in Satanism also involved in the occult? Yes, I believe it does. One being involved in Satansm is indeed in trouble and may lose their soul. This is really being involved in something that you have no knowledge of who you worship. It also means DANGER!

Now, I know this is just what I believe and others on here are going to bash it, but that is OK, because my spirit tells me to warn those who are involved in thses kind of activities. Please stop.......Look to Jesus!
He is love and he is not dangerous.

Yes, the time is short. We only need to look at what is happening in our world to see what is playing out. My friend, we are in the end of days. I know not everyone believes in the Rapture, but I do, and I do not believe that it is that far off. I believe I will see it in my lifetime and I am 60 years old. I have been a Christian over 30 years and the Lord has shown me some pretty amazing things during that time. There is not greater love affair than that between a believer and their God.

My spirit is troubled. I feel we are headed for a really hard time and it is not that far away. This is not to put fear into anyone but to put a sense of hope and knowing that the future is set and the Lord is in control.


Peace to all,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma


OT:

Nope, not a bit. You can use verses all you want, and debate them, but all it`s going to end up being is a draw. I believe in God/creator, I don`t need a book to tell me in what way I need to believe in or know God/creator.

reply to post by FiatLux


Fiatlux:

Yes, I agree! I also do not believe that one needs a book to find the Creator/God. He has put a spark in all our hearts. When we begin searching for knowledge the spark becomes a flame and wisdom and enlightenment come to us with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I am happy to hear that you believe



Peace to you,
Grandma

Grandma,

Satan also puts sparks in peoples heart, hence mormonism, Islam, Hindu, hariChrisna, New Age Christ consciousness, we are all God stuff......the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit to keep us on track with Gods voice. Its an instruction manuel, a how to do it and the law by God himself so that man will know that the voice of the Holy Spirit is the true one as it matches the Bible. It also tells us about false religions that are inspired by Satan. You also know when evanglicals, Priests and preachers are not telling the truth. This is why the Catholic clergy translate the Bible for the Catholic and discourages them from reading the Bible on their own. This is why the other false religions have their own "books". and this is why there is so many different translations of the King James Version....Satan is a busy busy boy.