Occultism is not Satanism

******You best reread you own thread. The main document or first post said the following:


"Millions of Christian and Islamic tracts, books, videos, sermons warn of the "dangers of the occult", associating it with horned beasts, reverse crosses, ritual sacrifice, ritual abuse and whatnot.

NWO/Conspiracy-Literature sometimes picks up on this, theorizing of an "occult dictatorship" that is ruling the world. The mere mention of the word "occult" brings up dark images indeed. "

*****The info I included is exactly covering the NWO/Conspiracy literature. ??????

Hey Tom, your statement reminded me.....did you ever come to terms with the fact that you are using fear to convert people? I`m just wondering, because I`m not seeing it yet.

Ahhh yes, there`s that word again....fear. You can paint it, reshape it, turn it upside down and even put it sideways, but it`s still fear. The same thing you are using to scare people into stop using the occult. Changing the word fear and using the word truth does not change the fact that it`s still fear based. Good try though, but you still come up short.

Fear of the Lord means many different things. It is written, THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF KNOWLEDGE: BUT FOOLS DESPISE WISDOM AND INSTRUCTION-Pv 1:7. THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM: AND THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE HOLY IS UNDERSTANDING-Pv 9:10.

Few people these days really seem to comprehend the "holiness of God" and His perfect and equal justice.

THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM: A GOOD UNDERSTANDING HAVE ALL THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS: HIS PRAISE ENDURETH FOR EVER-Ps 111:10. This verse seems to be saying several things, including—those who obey His commandments will have a good understanding of the Scriptures. Could this be saying, we might know a person’s understanding of the Scriptures according to his obedience to the Word? Certainly, we know that those who do not know Jesus (the unsaved) have very little understanding, and that they do not obey the Gospel. This is real, and we have to get on board as God Commands. We are not in the drivers seat as man would like you to think.

This is your choice..................we are on borrowed time.

Just telling the truth of the way God has it set up and what will happen. Simple.

reply to post by tgambill

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Try answering using your own thoughts for once, and not Bible verses, Ones own original thoughts are a good thing to use to answer questions.

I probably have to apologize for the times I exchange these words, deliberately, knowing full well they're not the same thing. Occultism, mysticism, and many spiritual practices are merely spiritual tools. As an example, visualization is a powerful prayer in image form.

However, for some reason I have the hardest time mentioning the traditional name for "the bad guy of the universe". You see, I just avoided doing it again, so I search for different ways to get my point across without giving that "guy" any credence.

Sorry.

Yes, according to your interpretation of the book it is. Not everyone interprets it the same way. And please, don`t feed me the line that your way is the only way, because it isn`t. Show me where it says to interpret the book in a literal way.

reply to post by tgambill

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tgambill:

There are many who walked with God before Christ was born:

Abraham
Moses
Elijah
Elisha
Enoch
King David

Just to name a few. All were considered highly because of their personal faith and communion with God. Elijah and Enoch were taken from this earth without death. King David was said to be a man after God's own heart. One can walk a personal path with the Father without first knowing Jesus.


Peace,
Grandma

Mod Note: Any other off topic comments will be tagged as being so. Let's all stick to the thread topic now. "Occultism is not Satanism"

reply to post by TheBandit795

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I just want to place a thought here.

If the thread title would of left out the word 'Satanism'....then I could see how talking about the different views of the Bible would be off topic....but in all sincerity, since it mentions 'Satanism' in the topic title, there is going to be discussion of view points of what is true and false perspectives of what and who satan is as well as what occultism is.

Even though its frustrating reading through some of the posts, I have found that they have all held precious views of why or why not occultism is or is not satanism.

The word 'occult' and 'Satan' are polluted from many view points and opinions. Im sure that the word occultism does not mean the same to all people.

I guess to sum up what Im thinking here, as well as provide something for the post topic....occult means something that one must seek, something that one will only find through seeking because it is not black and white and because the answers are not supposed to just lay in our laps. This is what I think occult means and like I said before, many may agree and many may disagree. Alas, some will disagree and say that if its something 'hidden' then its not of God which it would have to be of satan.

Its really a catch 22 staying on topic with such discussions.

To really leave the Bible discussions out of things, the title could be 'Occultism is not wrong'......with that, include that Biblical viewpoints were not what the OP was after.

My best,
LV

I personally think that Grandma had a great point and would like to hear the response.

If the mods would like for me to post a new thread restating her posts to continue the convo I would be happy to do so, not wanting to drag on thoughts in a thread if they are not wanted....

Trying to work with the OP and Mods and the other posters...

LV

reply to post by mystiq

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Hello mystiq,

I agree, I too try not to give what we view as the 'negative' any credit. Too much credit for a name could be misleading I think anyways.

If we gave all negative things a name of evil...then the air itself, fire itself, water itself would all be evil. But I find this not to be so....who are we to say what negative things bring positive results, how do we know that the darker side doesnt make the light shine forth.....they may go hand in hand.

Just thoughts,
LV

Grandma, No, because Jesus was God as those you mentioned gave prophesy for his coming knowing the truth. After Jesus the personal walk with God ended for man, and man then had to go through Jesus from then on. Your personal salvation depends on this.

Satan is using the Occult, and different types of false religions including the New Age Religion that is taking shape, which is strictly OCCULT. The Occult is based on demonic forces and demonic forces are the same as satanism but with a twist. The Occult is a watered down version of Luciferian theology which is also linked with a watered down version of Satanism. Satanism is harsh for some. Satan/Lucifer, the same entity uses different approaches to entice man to move away from truth.

The occult is just a watered down version or part of Satanism to give man power and entice man to think he is more powerful than what he or she really is.

Satanic involvement among our youth is increasing and as it does we can see the primary goal of such activity. It has become clear that the primary goal is to alter people's values and turn them against themselves, their beliefs, family, God, and society.

When we begin to take a close look at the occult, it becomes necessary to define terms. There is a great difference between cults and the occult. The term cult refers to a group of people polarized around one individual who is often a magnetic personality. This leader has his or her own understanding of truth of who God is, man's relationship to God, the existence of heaven and hell, as well as a number of other issues of faith.

After they cover a lot of truth, they start to deviate from truth when their control widens and their followers are immersed in this persons lies with no questions. This happening today with Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, Robert shueller, Joel Osteen, Copeland, Hagin, Hagee, and many more are deviating from truth following the tenants of the New Age Religion as demonstrated and promoted by our favorite Oprah.

In most cases such individuals incorporate some degree of biblical truth into their teachings in order to gain a certain amount of credibility and in order to deceive the unwary.

The term occult means "hidden" or those things or teachings that are "unknown" or secret. So, the occult is the seeking after knowledge of unknown information, knowledge that is gained beyond the five senses. Therefore, knowledge is received by some supernatural involvement or connection.



[edit on 16-1-2009 by tgambill]

reply to post by tgambill

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"The term cult refers to a group of people polarized around one individual who is often a magnetic personality. This leader has his or her own understanding of truth of who God is, man's relationship to God, the existence of heaven and hell, as well as a number of other issues of faith."

Sound like someone you know Tom? You could very well be speaking of Jesus here.

Cult..... a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book) ; especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion.

Not even close. Jesus was God and this leader gave his life so that mankind could live for an eternity. He also served and was not self serving. No cult leader died for his followers and then came back to life to accend back to the one true creator of the Universe. Big big difference......

I believe where the misconception comes in could be the controversial teachings in some heretical and gnostic scriptures telling us that the God of this world is actually "Satan"/Lucifer/(Yaltabaoth) known by many names to many people, but essentially referring to the same concept/idea.

Although a misunderstanding of the texts, because it never says that he is "GOD" the end all and be all, .. it's much more complicated than that.

My belief though is that many secret brotherhoods and underground sects took this to mean that they've been worshiping the wrong person, or perhaps these sects and brotherhoods prefer a jealous god opposed to the god that Jesus Christ spoke of in the gnostic scriptures.

So instead of having faith in the Logos, the word, of Jesus Christ, they worship the creator of this place, which is "Satan"/Lucifer/(Yaltabaoth) known by many names to many people, but essentially referring to the same concept/idea.

So the heretical teachings and occult literature were deemed satanic because it spoke of a different creator god and a different story that was strange and hard to grasp.

Although as I said calling them satanic is a misunderstanding of the scripts because yes, Jesus spoke of and taught his disciples about Yaltabaoth(Satan) and the sleep which was cast upon us he also taught of the true Father.

What I am saying here is Heretical EVEN today!

because people would rather have faith in an ideology, a person, instead of the Logos, the word and message of that person.

With the many branches of occultism the gnostic have been attacked unwaveringly, their books destroyed and their leaders murdered, all of Christs apostles were considered heretics and many of the first followers were put to death as such.

The greatest deception ever would be to suppress these ideas and manipulate it into something entirely different.

If that message is true that we can only know the true Father of the All through Christ who brought us the message of the ignorant father(Yaltabaoth) of this world and the true Father of the All and then that message gets mixed up, we would still be living in ignorance worshiping the ignorant one eyed father although it appears some of us choose to do this willingly even knowing the All.




So that being, I am also, of the belief that occultism is not satanism.

[edit on 1/16/2009 by PuRe EnErGy]

Yes....and......oh, I see, just because it was Jesus, we dare not put him under that heading, right? Well, I hate to burst your little reality Tom, but, Jesus still had a cult following, no matter if your mind can`t grasp that concept. You make it seem as though it`s bad when the word cult is used. Reality check Tom, the word cult is just that, a word, it means a group that follows someone else. So your saying Jesus didn`t have followers then, right? Well, sorry, he did, and yes, they also fall under that word.

"Yes....and......oh, I see, just because it was Jesus, we dare not put him under that heading, right? Well, I hate to burst your little reality Tom, but, Jesus still had a cult following, no matter if your mind can`t grasp that concept."

******No cult, and you would know that if you read the truth contained in the Bible. Doesn't even come close to a cult. lol...If you count all the born again christians since his ministry to now....wow, what a cult. Try again. You will have to find another vehicle to deceive. The cult angle won't work here. This is the reality.


"You make it seem as though it`s bad when the word cult is used. Reality check Tom, the word cult is just that, a word, it means a group that follows someone else. So your saying Jesus didn`t have followers then, right? Well, sorry, he did, and yes, they also fall under that word"

******Big difference.......you can call it like you chose. However, the time of judgement is coming soon and the supernatural will manifest itself.....long story short.

www.spiritwatch.org...

reply to post by tgambill

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I just want to note that coming to God out of fear for the satan or hell is not the way of a divine offering of ones self for Thee. Fear actually misleads one to understand the unconditional love. If you fear that you might not do something right and this will result in you going to hell....you are missing what the divine nature is.

Its not hard to see this. The life of Jesus says it all. Even though it was said that a man would have to shed blood for the final sacrifice and even though men did kill Christ....which was something according to that religion that Must be done for us all to be forgiven....Jesus still says....For give them, for they know not what they do.

It is unconditional. Claiming Christ or God out fear from hell is not the narrow path. It is a very wide path that misleads one from understanding the unblemished nature. Offering ones flesh body for the will of the divine nature is what Jesus did, this is why he is unblemished, he remained righteous, even when the fanatics through his death would result in the forgiveness of their sins. Even when the material body (flesh) tempted the spirit of Christ, the divine remained unblemished. He taught us what to strive for...he taught us how to raise our vibrations through offering, forgiveness, compassion, mercy and grace.

Not all are ready to understand this divine nature. There for, it can not be laid out in black and white for all to find. Through seeking for the benefit of the world as a whole, seeking for the will of Thee....one comes to see through the distortions of man and sees the sunshine through the dark forest. There is a purpose for all things, even negative things. So instead of fearing these 'rulers'....I place faith that its a part of a balance for discernment. You can live in fear of it, or get over that fear and allow the balance of light to work through you to remove the fear in others.

People hope so much that all the answers on in this book so they can lay their fears to rest of the fate of their soul and afterlife. This is not the reasons one should seek Thee. They gain comfort in thinking that they found truth, and it is good enough for them to not seek a hidden meaning to all things. The meaning of this life is defiantly hidden and it takes all religions and cultures to see why this is so.

Even though I would like to think that it is as easy as reading the sacred book....I had to toughen up a little and know, I still had much work to do before I understood....the divine nature of love.

If you think God is a demanding, ruling, controlling kind of God. Surely, that is what your after life will be. The ideas of us being co-creators is too much for most...but yet, dangerous to those that believe in a God demanding a eternity of worship.

Its very simple really. A divine nature does not bring you to Thee through fear, through blood, or through demands and force. These all defeat the purpose of what we are here for and blemishes the divine in the eyes of man.

Seek and you shall find. I dont imagine this is talking about scriptures.

My best,
Lv