I don't care about religion but I care about God.

ok slybmatt I understand brother.

Religion is sitting in a church thinking about fishing. Spirituality is fishing and thinking about God.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

No, God created a church, and you call it a religion, and I call it and the OT, NT, the saints call it the church of God.

This is the church is Jesus.

The only true church is the church of wisdom inside you. Wisdom is knowledge, understanding and experience. Which is in both heaven and on earth. You build this church by discussing the things Jesus talked about and by seeking truth. The more you seek, the more you will find and the bigger your church gets. As it is built on truth and understanding, then this church is like a rock, which can not be destroyed.

The physical churches are often destroyed. The entire christian "religion" is split up into thousands of different sects. And you can't take the physical with you. But the wisdom you have gained while here you do take with you. That church down the road from you isn't built in heaven as well, but the knowledge and understanding you gain is.

The physical church is just a physical imitation to keep people from understanding. In the time of Jesus, the churches were called synagogues, and that is how mentions them. He often even warns against these synagogues. No coincidence that the Pharisees of the synagogues are no different than the preachers at churches, and their strict and literal interpretation of the bible.

Now as for bowing down... Jesus said all knees will bow to him at the end.

Jesus is the truth.

worship is nothing more then a sign of respect for him being the creator.

No, following and doing what is right is a sign of respect for the creator. Worship and those things are just superficial things people do to appear as such. It's like telling someone you love them and then going off and cheating on them 6 nights out of the week. Sure you say it, sure you kiss them on the check and tell them they are the only one, but your actions are what show respect and disrespect. As Jesus says, if you believe then you will walk the path.

who the hell are we? To not kneel to the creator of a giant universe?

More important is - What are we. You have to understand that consciousness is not a result of this universe. It is not a part of this universe. And you were not created by this universe. Your body was created from this universe as a vessel to interact with it, but your consciousness and soul is completely separate. Without consciousness, there is no observer to view the universe. Consciousness is a result of the spirit of god, which is able to create what is called life. This is also told in Genesis, although most people don't realize consciousness is the spirit of god, that part of you that says "I AM". The state of being aware that you are aware. Are you aware that you are aware?

seriously people are intoxicated with pride today, just like beer, getting drunk off beer.

I don't drink very often, and only socially when I do. Haven't even done that in over 2 years.

he does love worship, but also wants to be freinds, not just servantd.

Acknowledgment and knowing/following the truth is the respect. Let me explain.

Memorial day in the US. All these people go around talking about showing respect for the troops. Or they talk about showing respect for the troops by not talking bad about the war. Or people walking around with a cross around their neck out of respect for Jesus.

I consider all of that to be disrespectful. Toting around a flag is not showing respect for those who died serving the country - sticking up for the things they fought for on a daily basis whenever needed is. Shutting up about if they troops should be in Iraq is not respectful, speaking up for the truth and getting them out of harms way and home with their kids is. Carrying around a symbol around your neck isn't respect, doing the things he stood for is.

And to think God needs to be worshiped like the golden bull is disrespectful because it is to imply that god has low self esteem and takes his ball home when people don't play like he wants. You know, I think I would be offended if people thought so lowly of me. In fact, many of the things people claim of god make him sound like someone who is worse than hitler.

I rejected the church version of god because I refuse to believe god has lower moral's than I do, and I think it is an insult to even suggest it.

He's your father too. Why do you think Jesus says those who believe will do greater things than he did?

[edit on 24-12-2008 by badmedia]

Well I can agree to disagree...I am not saying I don't believe in God...just not the same way...I believe in the Gaia concept...universe is the ultimat creator and the deities are what lead us to the goal...if we deserve and earn it

-Kyo

Originally posted by KyoZero
Well I can agree to disagree...I am not saying I don't believe in God...just not the same way...I believe in the Gaia concept...universe is the ultimat creator and the deities are what lead us to the goal...if we deserve and earn it

-Kyo

There is something special about being an observer. I'm a programmer, and after many years of working with logic and things I have come to the conclusion that there is no logic behind consciousness, it just is, always has been and always will be.

It is impossible to have free will without consciousness. And impossible to have intelligence without free will. The ability to "choose" is something the action and reaction universe you speak of can not create.

This is kind of like the matrix movie, where the architect(creator of the matrix/universe) talks about the matrix being a bunch of equations and stuff. Controls most everything except for Neo. As Neo says - the problem is choice.

Btw, other cool things about that part of the movie, each of the little individual TV's represents all these different dimensions he exists in, all the different choices he has in front of them, things to say and so on. And then when it focuses on a certain screen, that is when he makes the choice of which dimension to enter.

Anyway, we will all have our own way of seeing things, so it's fine when people don't agree. It's not the words or images we use to express the truth that matters, it's actually understanding what is truth.

No, following and doing what is right is a sign of respect for the creator. Worship and those things are just superficial things people do to appear as such. It's like telling someone you love them and then going off and cheating on them 6 nights out of the week. Sure you say it, sure you kiss them on the check and tell them they are the only one, but your actions are what show respect and disrespect. As Jesus says, if you believe then you will walk the path.


Ok but you're saying it's not possible to do the outward acts and still be faithful, this is not true.

Now when I say it's a sign of respect because what I mean is that that resepct leads to worship and thankfulness, and then it goes further then this which is true communion with God through communion.


then we becomes gods, or God in us to an incredible degree. All the saints became like gods, but with true humility.


Now as for the church, I'm not getting into that in here. Christ said he would build a church, he didn't say it was within alone, but a literal (gathering) and breaking of bread in a literal building.

This was prophecied throughout the OT as well. So I don't agree at all.



and about the golden bull. When the saints prostraed, it's not the same as worshipping idols because they prostrae before ZGod. It's a sign of ultimate unworthy humility. And God answers such prayers. many saints did this.


peace.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by JesusisTruth]

I don't care about the so-called god, it's the religions that I worry about.

Too many deaths in that god's name.

One wants to stone me, another wants to burn me alive, another says they're a friend of mine (as long as I have money to give them)

We'd be so much better-off without religions.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


It is my view that religion brainwashes people. Religion is like a control mechanism. As my view from an observer the church is the central part where all of the people go or a synagogue goes to and they go their every week to take in whatever religion doctrine their pastor shoves down their throat. But, seriously... don't you think people should have more faith in God than a religion? You can like what people have to say but why follow a religion on it? Why take their word for it? Why cut yourself short? Why not think for yourself?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Ok but you're saying it's not possible to do the outward acts and still be faithful, this is not true.

That you think god needs to be "worshiped" as such is merely a reflection of man, not god.

Now when I say it's a sign of respect because what I mean is that that resepct leads to worship and thankfulness, and then it goes further then this which is true communion with God through communion.

You can do what you want, but how much you worshiped is not going to matter. You are to love god, not worship god. Do you worship the people you love in the same manner? Or do you do so by doing right by them etc?

then we becomes gods, or God in us to an incredible degree. All the saints became like gods, but with true humility.

This I don't disagree with, it's a matter of how that happens. To be like god, you must know and understand both good and evil. What is true and what is not. And you don't get that from worship, you get it from seeking truth.

Now as for the church, I'm not getting into that in here. Christ said he would build a church, he didn't say it was within alone, but a literal (gathering) and breaking of bread in a literal building.

Ok, so if Christ said he was going to build it, then where is it? He built it in his life example, and by following that and understanding it then you have built your church that is in both heaven and earth. Who is the rich man in the eyes of god? It's the man with wisdom, not the man with a big huge physical church, not the community with the biggest church.

and about the golden bull. When the saints prostraed, it's not the same as worshipping idols because they prostrae before ZGod. It's a sign of ultimate unworthy humility. And God answers such prayers. many saints did this.

'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

This sounds at first as if it's done to keep people ignorant. Not true. It was said so that people won't mistake and worship the symbols for the real thing. As those symbols are held up by wolves wrapped in sheeps clothing with the symbolism and then lead people astray and on the broad path.

And we can see this today when Christians wear the cross around and don't follow the path, with past "Crusades" which lead people against the path of Jesus and to break "thou shall not kill". "onward Christian soldier".

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
It is my view that religion brainwashes people. Religion is like a control mechanism. As my view from an observer the church is the central part where all of the people go or a synagogue goes to and they go their every week to take in whatever religion doctrine their pastor shoves down their throat. But, seriously... don't you think people should have more faith in God than a religion? You can like what people have to say but why follow a religion on it? Why take their word for it? Why cut yourself short? Why not think for yourself?

If you think it's just religion, you are mistaken. It's all over in everything. It's called corruption, and it happens when people embrace symbolism and don't actually understand it, and then the people are manipulated in dualism. IE: Point out the evil in others, and people accept you as right.

Corruption - IE: Wolves in sheeps clothing, embrace the symbolism of the culture, people think they must really believe in the symbols and what the represent. People are then taught to focus on the symbolism and as such over time society loses meaning of what those symbols mean.

One thing I liked about Obama was when he didn't wear the flag pin. Notice how they got on to him and such? Because he wasn't wearing the symbolism. It is to say that is how you know wolves from sheep is based on what kind of pin they have, what symbolism they represent, not what their actions are. You'll notice I talk about levels of thinking alot, that is what I mean about levels of thinking. They want people to focus on the symbolism and that level of thinking, rather than what it truly means.

It's done in religion, politics and marketing. Look up what "name branding" is if you don't already know. Same thing, get a good name brand and you can sell the same item for a higher price and get more sales.

You just need to look beyond the symbolism and marketing in all these things, then you will see the truth.

What about those that use the symbolism as their connection to their deity? I have a certain set of symbols I use...it's merely my connection. The big difference is my prayer, ritual...whatever is done in private. Not because I am ashamed of it, but because it is my personal time to be with her and talk some stuff out. Nothing more..

Now I will say this badmedia...you did hit it on the head in one area...love and not worship. I can agree to that. What I feel for her isn't breakable...it is in me and it sure is incredible. I agree 100% with you there. In fact...I do believe honestly that prayer and service should be a private matter. In a way I do agree with Frank here. Strange because we've disagreed before so often :-p

It isn't the outward signs that count. I mean those outward signs could be completely honest but in reality the only truth is your own heart and only you know it. For all you know, I could be totally lying about Paganism and lying about her...but then again...I am willing to take that chance for two reasons.

1. I love a good solid discussion of any deep topic

2. More importantly, I could care less if others see me as real...I know what's in there and it works

Anywho..back to work

-Kyo

It's interesting that some people think ALL organized religion is bad.

Jesus knew SOME would be.

Matthew 7:14-23 (New Living Translation)

14 But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.
The Tree and Its Fruit
15 “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. 16 You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? 17 A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. 19 So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. 20 Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
True Disciples
21 “Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws."


It's easy to weed out the bad tree's & fruit's, has the religion's clergy endorsed warfare in the last 100 years, if yes they are disqualified.

1 John 3:10-12 (New American Standard Bible)

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
11For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another;
12not as Cain, who was of the evil one and slew his brother And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous."

That's what not to do.


But we also have to do something as well, the very last command Jesus gave Christians before he ascended to heaven.

Matthew 28:19-20 (New Living Translation)

19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

He tied this to end times

Matthew 24:13-14 (The Message)

13-14"Staying with it—that's what God requires. Stay with it to the end. You won't be sorry, and you'll be saved. All during this time, the good news—the Message of the kingdom—will be preached all over the world, a witness staked out in every country. And then the end will come."

Find organized people who have done this, and are continuing to do this, and you have found a good tree producing good fruit.








[edit on 27-12-2008 by Blue_Jay33]