I don't care about religion but I care about God.

I don't think God wants to be worshipped. I believe that God will understand why I would rather not make a judgment of him until I have experienced a lot of life. I don't care much for religious interpretation of what God is. God is what God is. I am sure that God will understand that. If and when I ever get to talk to God I will tell God what I think about this worshiping going on and why I believe it is a bad idea. Can't I just respect God and respect that God exists? I think that's enough. I'm sure that God, as people say, would really truly understand why I don't like following any sort of religious doctrine throughout my entire life. I mean, I care for God because I don't want religion shoving stuff down my throat and because of that I have been able to form my own thoughts about God, and, this is what I believe in, and I don't think it's necessary to follwo a religion.

several problems with this.


Your thoughts about God are not his. His thoughts are different. He knows who he is and your idea of him may not be what he is.

say for instance I'm Catholic.

our main points are confession communion, I haven't been in along time myself, mostly my own fault, but do I rebel because of myself or do I follow what he tuaght?

this is where sincerity comes into play.

If something is true, and I believe it, and I have seen proof of it throughout history with the saints, I don't think of following doctrines as hard but pleasureful, because of what those do to the soul or produce in the soul.

Like communion. Iv'e felt what it does for the soul. Literally felt the difference within me compared to when I thought it was a potatoe chip.

and so the sincere soul always searches, not saying you aren't, but I'm saying that sincerity agrees with truth nomatter how hard it is to follow.

always.

it never fails.

You don't believe. Fine. But don't say we are being shoved with something we don't want, obviously there are a billion catholics who LOVE, and I mean that when I say it, Love to go to mass.

t's beautiful.


now as for respect instead of worship.


respect is a sort of worship because it's a holy fear.

but the only thing we do differently then just acknowledge God, we love him and ask for prayers.

this is all that consist in our worship.

Love and prayer. that's it.

It's not like, do this or I'm gonna damn you. No God says. Please love me because I'm your father, if you feal dead inside then keep calling after me, I'll lift you up.


peace.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I agree. I believe we are here to experience life. "Worship" and all the bowing and scraping and begging for forgiveness is in my opinion is simply the creation of the Church so that it can exist and keep it's power. And that "God" is not the point, learning what it is to exist is, IMHO.

I agree with the OP.

Do we worship or just cry for forgiveness for being Egos. Is that worshipping God. No that's the opposite. That's disrespecting God every time you worship. If you respected God you dont need to worship him.

Ops did i just commit a sine.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

I also agree with the OP. I like to relate God to a father or parent. Because if we are all "children of God" then thats what he is - Our Father. Now, as a father (and if any of you are parents you will relate to this) all you want for your children is for them to live full and happy lives and to love you and to be loved. It is laughable to think that a father would want to be worshipped. That is a man-made concept. God has no ego. Secondly no parent would EVER, EVER, want their children to be doomed to an eternity of fire and torture for disobeying them; no matter how bad the offense. They would forgive and forgive forever.

I believe in God and I believe that he loves every person equally. Rituals and doctrines are not necessary to please God. He sees through to your heart. If your heart is full of darkness and hate, you can do all the hail marys you want and get no closer to feeling the presence of God. Its whats inside that counts.

Your thoughts about God are not his. His thoughts are different. He knows who he is and your idea of him may not be what he is.

Well quite frankly we don't know this to be true. If God is the one and only, his thoughts could be readically different from what a Catholic, Protestant, or Pentacostal believe. His thoughts may well be different from Franks...then again...they could be different from what you said just now.

and so the sincere soul always searches, not saying you aren't, but I'm saying that sincerity agrees with truth nomatter how hard it is to follow.

A problem I have with the insinuation in this statement. I actually couldn't agree more. Sincerity usually does searches and does agree with truth but perhaps God's truth for Frank is different then his for you. Maybe Frnak has a different plan.

To Frank (OP)

Nice post...you know as you and I have debated before, I am not Christian but I see no issues with you and your methods. If I may be so bold perhaps what you described IS you method of worship for God. Kudos to you for finding your own ways. Well done

I also agree...controlled and organized religion is awful even in my own spirituality which I adore...Pagans have some fantastic idea, but the last I checked I don't have to study with Pagan #2 if I choose not to.

-Kyo

I guess it depends on what you call worship. ITs not like im on my kneees doing the whole holy God your so great thing. And I agree with JesusisTruth. All I do to worship God is pray and ask forgiveness and try to stay in spirit. And you want to say im in a religion. LOL ya right Im in a way of life. And God does'nt make me do sh!t. I follow God by faith. And no one in hell makes me listen to anybody. The only Word of God I listen to is the bible. And the bible cant craim a life time of truth to my head.

I do understand the OP I dont go to church. I do understand for what you are saying. But that doesn't stop God's truth. If God wanted you live a life of what the OP said. He would never have sent his son. Nor would he talk to the people on earth.

There is battle going on all around you. God and Satan are at the top of the list. And both of them try to get you.

What are you going to tell God? God you tryed to talk me, I didnt believe it. God you sent proofs of your will, I didnt believe in them. So wft you even sent you son so I can get out of the mess I am in, but hey I just dont want to worship you!!!!!LOL life after death is a big gamable. And judgment day is coming.

reply to post by slymattb

and ask forgiveness

Well considering I find the idea of having to ask for forgiveness for existing from the being that created you more than a little silly.
Your welcome to do it of course just don't be shocked when I don't. Because like I said, seems to me making people feel that they have to beg for forgiveness from the creator only serves the church and we need only look at history to understand how full of BS the church is.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Good post theres no need to join a religious sect/cult and mindlessly believe what other people tell you be the truth (when it is in fact nothing but opinion based on speculation and conjecture).

Noone knows if any of the gods or godessess worshipped down the years are real but if they are then 'attempting to be a decent person' is always a good prerequisite.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

I agree with your statements on religion. It's hard for me as well to commit myself to what doesn't feel completely right to me in my heart. However, you said "If and when" you talk to God... but have you tried to talk to God now? Just kind of pray, feel around with your mind and heart and see if you make a connection with any kind of presence. You might be surprised.

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Frankidealist35, you say in the OP that , and I quote you directly, "I don't think God wants to be worshipped" and that is just fine but you don't define who or which God you are talking about and so it makes it hard for me to answer you precisely, but let's assume that you are talking about the God of the Abrahamic faiths then I would reply like this :- by utilizing the blueletterbible website and the KJV and the word "worship" placed in the search bar returns 102 results and several on the 1st page spring to mind such as :-

Exd 24:1 And he(God*) said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.

Exd 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God:

Deu 26:10 And now, behold, I(Moses*) have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O LORD, hast given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the LORD thy God:

* = my words to show context!!!

Now 1stly the 1st biblical verse I supply here (Exd 24:1), is God talking to Moses and commanding that worship take place!

2ndly the 2nd biblical verse I supply here (Exd 34:14), is again a commandment from God refering to worship.

3rd and finaly the last biblical passage I supply here (Deu 26:10), shows Moses following the commandments about first fruits (Exd 22:29 Thou shalt not delay [to offer] the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors: the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me.(God*))

So if the God you refer to in your OP is the God of the Abrahamic faiths then I think I can safely assure you that you may just be mistaken. If it not so then I am definately mistaken and will unreservedly withdraw my above comments.

As to the rest of your OP I reply as follows:-

"I believe that God will understand why I would rather not make a judgment of him until I have experienced a lot of life". I would question your use of a gender specific i.e. "him", and your ability to actually "know him so as to judge him appropriately!" by only "experiencing a lot of
life" which may not actually contain experiences of your said God!

"I don't care much for religious interpretation of what God is". Yes but "he" just might!

"God is what God is". No argument from me here but its a bit of an ambiguous bare facts statement that leaves it up to the reader as to what God "really is". Care to disambiguate?

"I am sure that God will understand that". Omniscience says he will but wether he agrees with what he understands is a different matter altogether! for example I can understand that the world is a violent place but do I agree that this should be so???

"If and when I ever get to talk to God I will tell God what I think about this worshiping going on and why I believe it is a bad idea". He already knows i.e. Omniscience! But I'm sure he's not a bastard and will let you personally get it of your chest. Best of luck convincing him.

"Can't I just respect God and respect that God exists?". Yes, but "he" may require MORE of you.

"I think that's enough". What you think and what "he" requires of you are not nessissarily in perfect alignment and you don't provide any proof that they are!

"I'm sure that God, as people say, would really truly understand why I don't like following any sort of religious doctrine throughout my entire life". Please see my statement above conscerning your "sureness" and his Omniscience and possible or not agreeance with said "sureness".

"I mean, I care for God because I don't want religion shoving stuff down my throat and because of that I have been able to form my own thoughts about God, and, this is what I believe in, and I don't think it's necessary to follwo a religion". God just may want you to care for him for his own sake and may require you to "follow" whoever he says you must "follow".
Then again maybe not.

Personal Disclosure: Very interesting thread and I patiently await your response.

Edited to add missing quotation marks.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by OmegaLogos]

Well done Omega...hell of a post!

The only real issue I take is with bibles period...written by man...who knows if and how much has been skewed...

Just my thought

I love how open you are

-Kyo

" doing the whole God you're so great "

slybmatt I take great offense to your post. And the little goofy icons.

Look some saints prostrated on the ground for hours to show their humility and ask for mercy in the most humble way and God was please by their humble state of praying.

God is great, and he would like us to acknowledge this, instead of acting like stuck up little people who are specs in the entire universe, we should exhalt every day how good God is.

I don't agree with you brother.

Kyozero]
Well quite frankly we don't know this to be true. If God is the one and only, his thoughts could be readically different from what a Catholic, Protestant, or Pentacostal believe. His thoughts may well be different from Franks...then again...they could be different from what you said just now.



Well K it's because of revealed truth and the prophecies of the church and communion. But everybody has their own belief, so so be it.



peace.

reply to post by KyoZero

Disclaimer: Personal reply to KyoZero.....

Thanks for the kudos KyoZero

BTW if you like it so much and because I'm not shy to ask lol pls star my post.

Personal Disclosure: I agree with you on the issues surrounding religious texts written and copied forever and a day by falible men but thats another thread.

Done and done OL

Let me pretend a moment Isis talked ot me directly and told me to write a holy text for her. I see alot of potential for error.

What she has just done, whether intended or not, is gave me power. I could do several things to it.

I could write certain parts my own way to assure things go my way.

I could write other parts to twist her words and take on my own meaning to it all.

Or...I could just be a human and make mistakes.

It's all possible and when I look at how several people in the past interpret the bible in their own words then I start to think about another possibility.

Even IF I wrote everything exactly as she asked with zero mistakes, who is to say the other Egyptian Pagans will follow it the way she intended it?

I think the religious texts are quite important, but only in the way that you should follow them as a general guideline. The Book of the Dead tells me not to harm others. Done..I do all I can to never harm others. It tells me not to cheat, there for I don't cheat. As a general guideline to living, I think it's excellent but there lies one issue when people take it too much to heart. If any deity thinks that you need to do every exact word of what they write, what is the point of living? You just become a puppet then.

Well K it's because of revealed truth and the prophecies of the church and communion. But everybody has their own belief, so so be it.

Precisely. When people have communion and find their truth, how do we attest fr the fact that several communion-goers find a different truth? I think that speaks directly to the possibility that whatever creator it is started the universe turning and said, 'ok...now make your way, and in the end I hope it is to me.'

You're sure right about one thing JIT. So be it...I wish others in ANY religion or athist view saw it that way.

-Kyo

This is simple. Don't worship Jesus or god, do what he says and follow the example. Put yourself in the shoes of Jesus and try to understand things from his perspective.

Jesus says you must seek the truth to find it, and that the truth will set you free. So do that.

Worrying about who is god, Isis, Jesus, Satan, and on and on, or even what their true names are is just plain silly. You are merely focusing on the idol/image.

It's like this - Jesus is just a tool. A tool that was used to bring a message. And he isn't the only one. Each culture gets it's own messenger, in ways that meets their cultures so they can understand the deeper truth. Religion is nothing more than idol worship. You can see in their hypocrisy that they don't actually follow the message.

It's like if you give a cat a bowl of milk. Did you mean for the cat to worship and like the bowl used to provide the milk? Or did you mean for the cat to drink the milk the bowl provided? If you left the bowl there, came back a few hours later and the cat hadn't touched the milk, just praised and worshipped the bowl for bringing the milk - you'd probably think that is one ignorant/blind and foolish cat. And yet, this is exactly what religion does - praise that bowl!!!!

Of course, since the cat never actually tasted the milk or drank from it - it's going to be thirsty. So then you have "water" sellers who are all to happy to get you to praise that bowl while selling you plain old tap water. And of course, they will tell you it's the same thing that's in the bowl too. Which as you've never tasted it, you don't know.

And so religion does this as well, gets you to look externally for god so that they can provide it for you, all the while keeping you from looking internally to find the god within. Praise Jesus for showing the truth, but worship the cross and the idol instead of following.

Take a look at the story of moses and the false idol. They were all huddled around worshipping the golden bull - similiar to a church and the cross today. What was it they had done so wrong? Some people will say it was because of the changing of the ages, but thats not it. What those people were doing was worshipping the idol instead of the teachings of the time - whatever they were(don't really know because it isn't part of history). You can bet the people who took to the teachings weren't out there worshipping some silly golden bull.

And of course, the entire "anti-christ" thing that is only able to decieve those who focused on the idol and not the teaching. Because then it only needs to appear as that idol/image(which btw, the church has changed).

So drink the milk and look at the example of Jesus instead of worshipping the bowl and putting a cross around your neck is my best advice. You know why they need a physical symbol for "carrying the cross"? Because they don't actually do it, and the cheap imitation is about as close as they will come to it.

You are a son of god. God is within you, your consciousness is something which can not be created by this universe. It is eternal. The point is to see it and figure it out, and when you do then you will see why Jesus was right, and how others have also given that message and been killed for it.

Well I respect your opinion but disagree on some points. It isn't the name that means as much. What I believe is that God and Isis are different. The highest power I believe in is something quite different. So no I am not a son of God in the manner of the Christian term. What I am is indeed different. Either way the post was well thought and I do agree with the idea of us following the example. That's what she would have me do I believe

Nice post regardless of what my opinion is

-Kyo

Originally posted by KyoZero
Well I respect your opinion but disagree on some points. It isn't the name that means as much. What I believe is that God and Isis are different. The highest power I believe in is something quite different. So no I am not a son of God in the manner of the Christian term. What I am is indeed different. Either way the post was well thought and I do agree with the idea of us following the example. That's what she would have me do I believe

Nice post regardless of what my opinion is

-Kyo

Are you conscious? Do you understand what it means to be? If yes, then you are of the spirit of God, and thus a son/daughter of god. This universe acts only on the premise of action and reaction. You can not create or get consciousness from action and reaction. There is no logic which can ever bring you to understanding consciousness.

If you have it, then you are of god. That simple really. How you want to express it and what you want to do with it is up to you, but realize you reap what you sow.


[edit on 23-12-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Look some saints prostrated on the ground for hours to show their humility and ask for mercy in the most humble way and God was please by their humble state of praying.

Dont get me wrong. I do get down on my knees and pray. But its those same type of people Islam and those you talk about in the past who killed and brought the crusades.

More to a point. It doesn't matter how much faith you have. Faith without works means nothing. Which is more important RIGHT NOW, getting on your knees or doing the work of God. Even at the end of times people will get down on their knees and worhship God, so will you and so will I. But there are too many in the middle east on there knees, but letting the work of God go to wast. I didnt mean to offend you, I just dont think I explain enough at the time.

Religion is nothing more than idol worship



No, God created a church, and you call it a religion, and I call it and the OT, NT, the saints call it the church of God.

This is the church is Jesus.


Now as for bowing down... Jesus said all knees will bow to him at the end.

worship is nothing more then a sign of respect for him being the creator.

who the hell are we? To not kneel to the creator of a giant universe?

seriously people are intoxicated with pride today, just like beer, getting drunk off beer.

he does love worship, but also wants to be freinds, not just servantd.