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Topic started on 21-12-2008 @ 05:27 PM by fooffstarr
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This question is coming from a borderline Agnostic/Atheist... me!
I know many people who call themselves 'Atheists', and who were brought up in either Catholic or Anglican education systems. Yet they go out of
their way to celebrate a Christian holiday.
My family, all of whom are fairly hardcore Catholics, make a really big deal of Christmas. I made it known when I declared myself removed from the
religion that I was not going to participate in the whole gifts thing and celebration of Jesus' birth.
I still attend the family dinners etc. because it is a good opportunity to catch up with the crazy uncles and cousins but other than that, it is just
another day.
So why do many Atheists celebrate a Christian holiday? Is it simply to 'score some sweet presents' and take advantage of their relatives
generosity? Whats the deal?
Or is it to keep the family happy and not to cause tension? Maybe the Grandmothers etc. would disown them for disrespecting the family values?
[edit on 21-12-2008 by fooffstarr]
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 05:30 PM by clay2 baraka
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reply to post by fooffstarr
Maybe they aren't celebrating the Christian holiday:
No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in
September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the
bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why
do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?
The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25.
Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.
In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn,
the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was
called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that
the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their
neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of
Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being
born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light
a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means “wheel,” the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was
considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the
gods.
The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during
the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck
and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while
surrounding and worshipping huge trees.
In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ’s birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as
painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier,
knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 05:32 PM by mr-lizard
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As an atheist who believes that people should be happy without having politics or religion shoved down your throat any time of the year goes further
to possibly humiliate himself by saying Christmas is a nice time of the year to spend with relatives i haven't seen.... Sharing stories and enjoying
comfortable times with good people...
Mince pies, brandy, the smell of Christmas pudding, warm fireplaces and cups of tea with people you may not see again for a while (or ever)...
Or is that a sin?
Or are you going to be all high and mighty and dare to accuse me of being a hypocrite?
It would be terribly Un-Christian to tell me not to enjoy those things....
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 05:35 PM by fooffstarr
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reply to post by mr-lizard
I'm not a Christian so I can't be 'un-Christian'.
I was simply asking the question of each Atheist on the board.
If you celebrate Christmas, why?
clay2 baraka brought up the point that it is possible to celebrate the season without the Christian connection, and I somewhat agree. As I said, I
spend time with family and don't impede on their religious aspect.
But I just find it strange that a holiday that is one of, if not the, most important on a religions calendar is also recognized and celebrated by many
not of that religion.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 05:42 PM by OzWeatherman
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
I was simply asking the question of each Atheist on the board.
If you celebrate Christmas, why?
Correct me if Im wrong, but why do christians celebrate a holiday that was originally a pagan thing?
Answer me that christians and catholics
[edit on 21/12/2008 by OzWeatherman]
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 05:45 PM by Mr Mxyztplk
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why do non Christians celebrate Christmas? simple we have nothing better to do.
Late December sucks!!! it's cold, it's snowing and it gets dark at 5:00pm!!! so why not do something to have some fun, get the fam together eat
allot of food and give the kids a bunch of toys so they have something to entertain them for the next 3 months of wintry hell.
I guess that we could start a feast of our own but like any other population group we are lazy and it's easier to steal some one else s idea them to
come up with our own.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 05:49 PM by fooffstarr
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reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk
Pretty much my deal too
It's an excuse to eat, drink and be merry.
If I was a Christian though, I'd be pretty worried about Christmas losing it's meaning. I mean, it's close to that already. I read in my local
paper this morning quotes from children about what they think of Christmas. 9/10 mentioned Santa, presents etc. Only 1 mentioned Jesus, and even then
she wasn't sure if Christmas was when he was born or died.
Not that it bothers me, but I do feel sorry for the religion kind of having their holiday 'hijacked'.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 05:53 PM by MCoG1980
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Tradition basically, it brings people together, happiness is spread, alls good - People dont have to really bewlive in the Jesus story to celebrate
Christmas, if it makes everyone spend more time with their families or show people they care, it cant be a bad thing if this brings out good in
people. What i disagree with is the commercial greed, kids adverts and its effects on the kids. Children throwing tantrums because they do get
something they asked for.That is wrong, the idea of giving and receiving out of love is dissaprearing and that is were christmas gets bad in my
opinion anyway. It just turns Christmas into the money spinner it has now become.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:02 PM by Mabus
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None of the holidays can rob you when you dont buy any of them in how they tell them. It's like watching a movie just for own entertainment.
But this Christmas Eve I dont see any cherishing it, nor the next day, when the U.S. gets a surprize from Santa (Satan), which brews the hypocrites in
a pot of World War III.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:08 PM by Benevolent Heretic
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Like it or not, Christmas has become a secular holiday for many people. There's nothing Christian about Santa Clause, a Christmas tree, stacks of
presents and food as many people interpret it. And some people really just enjoy the season and all the memories and nostalgia that go along with the
holiday.
I stopped celebrating it years ago, but if I see something I think my husband or Mother-In-Law would like, I get it. I don't wrap anything or
decorate or any of that, but I might use Christmas as an excuse to get a pumpkin pie or have a special meal. To us, it's pretty much another day,
except my husband doesn't have to work.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:11 PM by The Bald Champion
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I DO...
There is no MANLIKE GOD, we are all wooorums.
But the ho ho ho stuff is fun.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:13 PM by onetruesaxon
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Tradition for me, just a good excuse to be able to get merry, eat a lot and see friends and family. I think the holidays are good for everyone in
todays society with people having to work all the time and the stresses of finances. Its a good opportunity to unwind and enjoy yourself.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:13 PM by non-living
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i'm not an atheist, but I'm not catholic either.
I celebrate christmas because it has always been a family tradition. I enjoy the gift system amongst family and friends. Like a birthday, it's just a
special day where your loved ones can just sit down and relax. That's the most I value of it. I celebrate christmas as peaceful family holiday, I
don't care for the religious part of it.
As much as I wish more days can be like this, where we are all in joy of life and not just some one day event, I have to make the best of it because
after that, people return to their normal state.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:18 PM by OhZone
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Hey, it is a good old Pagan Holiday - the celebration of the Sun making its return after having been dead for 3 days.. This was the feasting holiday
of my Ancestors. So I like it.
The Jesus thing never did have much interest for me - even when I went to church.
I have to cut some Holly and bring it in to do some decorating.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:23 PM by thesaints2012
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk
Pretty much my deal too
It's an excuse to eat, drink and be merry.
If I was a Christian though, I'd be pretty worried about Christmas losing it's meaning. I mean, it's close to that already. I read in my local
paper this morning quotes from children about what they think of Christmas. 9/10 mentioned Santa, presents etc. Only 1 mentioned Jesus, and even then
she wasn't sure if Christmas was when he was born or died.
Not that it bothers me, but I do feel sorry for the religion kind of having their holiday 'hijacked'.
it was hijacked before that from the pagans....
i dont celebrate xmas as a religious holiday, i celebrate it as a holiday where you just exchange gifts and see the family. im sure most athiests do
aswell.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:34 PM by zephyrs
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
This question is coming from a borderline Agnostic/Atheist... me!
I know many people who call themselves 'Atheists', and who were brought up in either Catholic or Anglican education systems. Yet they go out of
their way to celebrate a Christian holiday.
My family, all of whom are fairly hardcore Catholics, make a really big deal of Christmas. I made it known when I declared myself removed from the
religion that I was not going to participate in the whole gifts thing and celebration of Jesus' birth.
I still attend the family dinners etc. because it is a good opportunity to catch up with the crazy uncles and cousins but other than that, it is just
another day.
So why do many Atheists celebrate a Christian holiday? Is it simply to 'score some sweet presents' and take advantage of their relatives
generosity? Whats the deal?
Or is it to keep the family happy and not to cause tension? Maybe the Grandmothers etc. would disown them for disrespecting the family values?
[edit on 21-12-2008 by fooffstarr]
Simple. There are two Christmases in my opion. Christian Christmas, which revolves around celebrating Jesus' birth and Consumer Christmas, created by
retailers, which is essentially a gift-giving day created by retailers.
Obviously, atheists and agnostics only celebrate the latter if anything at all.
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:38 PM by angel of lightangelo
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reply to post by fooffstarr
The holiday predates them moving Jesus birthday to hijack a popular holiday to lure people in. We are not celebrating a Christian holiday. Christians
have perverted the face of it. Other than that, unless someone can tell me what Santa, reindeer, jack frost, frosty, and all the other Christmas
trappings has to do with Jesus then I would maybe even understand a little but at this point it aint happening that way.
PS - satanist rule -"celebrate any event that brings you joy to engage in."
It is in my beliefs to enjoy holidays. If a Jew invites me to a Hanukkah party, i am all over that too.
[edit on 21-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 06:57 PM by Good Wolf
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Seeing the title of the thread I knew this was gunna rapidly turn into a discussion about Christmas's non-christian roots.
It's not dissimilar to Easter or St Valentines Day.
'How the Grynch stole Christmas.' More like 'How the Christians stole the Winter Solstice Celebration.'
It's a political move that has survived the ages.
I'm an agnostic-atheist and I don't celebrate xmas. It's the most depressing time of the year, my family sux.
[edit on 21/12/2008 by Good Wolf]
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reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 07:01 PM by Dermo
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Why do many Atheists celebrate Christmas?
Because it is now a commercial holiday created by corporations to boost revenue during a time of year when people would otherwise be spending their
money trying to keep their houses warm.
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