No Divorce For Eight-Year-Old

This article is a bit misleading. It says "she must stay with the man" but then says she lives with her mother and her marriage will not be consumated for 10 year.

She is not "staying with the husband" she is just legally married to him for now, and it sounds like when she becomes an adult she can decide if she wants to consumate that marriage or back out of it.

Another odd thing, the Quran states that the dowry goes to the BRIDE alone, it is HER money and cannot be touched by her family or his. So unless they violated Sharia Law the father did NOT get her dowry.

Plus the court rejected the request to annul the marriage because legally the MOTHER cannot ask that her daughter's marriage be annulled, only the daughter can ask that when she reaches puberty.

But the court ruled that the girl must file the case herself when she reaches puberty, it was reported.

"The judge has dismissed the plea because she does not have the right to file such a case, and ordered that the plea should be filed by the girl herself when she reaches puberty," lawyer Abdullah Jtili told the AFP news agency.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Sonya610


I read that, too, Sonya and was just about to comment on it. This is what makes me curious: Why was the father able to pretty much 'sell' (if you will) his daughter into marriage yet all of a sudden it's 'we need to see what the child wants once she turns 18' [and the mother has no say] while trying to get a divorce?

Yes, I understand the custom of arranged marriages and the father deciding, etc. But it strikes me as odd that it sounds like the little girl and the mother had no say going into the marriage but now it's all about the little girl and waiting to hear her opinion [at the age of 18].

Why is it being done like that? No say going in and no say now but suddenly she will have all the power at the age of 18 but not now and not her mother? Honest question.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Why was the father able to pretty much 'sell' (if you will) his daughter into marriage yet all of a sudden it's 'we need to see what the child wants once she turns 18' [and the mother has no say] while trying to get a divorce?

Well I think its like this, whether or not we approve it is in fact LEGAL to marry at that age. Once the marriage takes place, then it is up to the wife to request dissolving it (because the contract is between the husband and wife alone). Since the girl is so young, I am guessing that the court believes it is best to wait until she is old enough to decide for herself whether she wants a divorce (which yes, seems odd since she was old enough to marry, she should be old enough to decide on divorce, but the court wants to let her decide that when she is accountable).

Secondly, as stated the dowry belongs to the Muslim bride alone. I am sure if the father "sold her" and illegally kept her dowry that would have come up during the court case.

[edit on 22-12-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Sonya610


Great. Thanks so much for the reply. And yes, I am aware of the bride getting to keep the money as custom. However, I was confused due to the fact the article stated the father was in debt, therefore it led me to assume he, for some reason, received the payment in this instance.

From the article:

It is understood the father had debt problems and wanted to secure an advance dowry.

It seems it is implied he received the dowry.

Originally posted by AshleyD

It is understood the father had debt problems and wanted to secure an advance dowry.

It seems it is implied he received the dowry.

Yeah, then again the headline always says "An eight-year-old girl who was married off to a 58-year-old must stay with the man until she reaches puberty" when in fact she is NOT "staying with the man".

I wonder if because the girl is so young, and NOT living with the groom, if the father is "holding" the money for her. I guess her only recourse would be to sue her father if he did not later produce the dowry, or if she annuls the marriage the husband certainly sue the father.

Another article says this:

“She doesn't know yet that she has been married,” a lawyer said of the girl, who still lives with her mother and is attending elementary school.
www.newser.com...

reply to post by Harlequin


I do not see the problem here. In Poland we marry 8 year olds all of the time.

Marriage has, historically/traditionally speaking, been about money, land, joining families, producing heirs, children to work the land and whatnot. It's a business transaction. Only in relatively recent times has marriage been about affairs of the heart. While western culture has been, for the most part, progressive, there are still a great many cultures that remain true to ancient, conservative values.

It's my one complaint against Islam. I believe that most women suffer under archaic practices. While there are many people who practice less conservative flavors of Islam, Wahabism isn't such a thing.

So the real issue here is the lack of rights for women, for both the girl and her mother.

While there are many arguments to be made against child marriage, it's common around the world. Nearly 80% of girls are married before they are age 18.

There's a lot here about marriage customs, including the ages of brides. Most cultures want the bride to be of the age of puberty, but often marriages take place by the age of ten, twelve or so.

The Hindu laws of Manu claim that a husband must be 3 times the age of the bride and that most girls must be married by age ten.

books.google.com...,M1

www.amazon.com...=sr_11_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1229985105&sr=11-1

The greeks thought men should marry around 25-30 years of age, but that their brides should be mid teens.

The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times. The Talmud recommends that a man marry at age 18, or somewhere between 16 and 24.

Yemen Jewish brides were "...usually married at age 10–12"

muse.jhu.edu.../journals/nashim/v011/11.1sharaby.html

Anyways, it's not that the culture is 'sick' as someone said. Child brides have been common in ALL CULTURES and still are in many.

The difference is, 'western/european' culture has left these social norms behind.

Um you females have this completely backwards, you jump on this like its a horrible act. The horrible act was commited by the parents. Lynch them if someones to be lynched, they commited the real crime in this situation. How do you sell your daughter to a 58 yr old man?

They are the sick individuals. Everytime I see these threads I just see AHHH KILL THE PEDO!!! The parents need the accountability this isnt a kidnapping, grow the heck up already.

reply to post by Memysabu


This is the point I was making. The betrayal of your own child. These are the ones who should be punished

Society (ours in the US included) seems to placidly accept that children are chattel. No rights, no privileges that are not bound by the guardian.

As a result this kind of crap proliferates.

When every living citizen, regardless of age, is a citizen, this stops.

Unfortunately, when religion is a matter of state, change is virtually impossible.

btw the minimumage for marraige in SC is 14

marriage.about.com...

and its legal to marry your cousin there....


edit:

in New Hampshire a girl can marry at 13

[edit on 23/12/08 by Harlequin]

reply to post by Harlequin
Poor little girl. Has a lot to look forward to when she's 18 she gets to have a "wedding night" with her 68 year old husband.

YUK

No choice, no say in the matter.

Probably must also wear a veil that covers most of her.

Sounds like slavery to me.

Human bondage.

Will mankind ever grow up?

[edit on 23-12-2008 by ofhumandescent]

Part of the problem is, this society of theirs is very young. People dont realize that not long ago they were still riding camals across the desert. They didnt have anything, definately not sky scrapers and mcdonalds. I look at them as I would a society on another planet thats behind ours.
Oil that we ourselves went after caused them to move forward so fast.

They need time to mature and their women will lead a movement for equal rights just the same as we did in the USA. Until then we need to let them mature and help them mature. Its their society really. I dunno in ours back in the early 1900's and before we married 12 yr old girls off to 25+ yr old men. Just think about it, they arent much different but they also arent that advanced.

This will most likely be resolved and this is a prearranged thing she doesnt live with him now and wont until shes 18. I doubt it will get that far.

The reason we dont marry off 12 yr olds in the USA anymore isnt because they are 12, its because they arent done with school yet and arent the age of majority. I really think this is over scrutinized. You need to examine the whole society before you take sides.

In the USA theres no family unit anymore, my grandparents got married very young. They stayed together. No one these days does and they get married much older.

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Memysabu]

The difference in cultural variants depended on the time period. When the life expectancy was around 30-35, and a culture was primarily an agrarian society, then certainly, young women took mates earlier than we do today.

Islam is the problem. Not just children, but women period are considered chattel. Islam is stuck in the seventh century as was its pedophile Prophet.

His goal in his raids was more stuff. More money, more influence, more women.

Not only was Muhammed a pedophile, but he was into the incest thing as well. He just followed wherever his pecker pointed.

Originally posted by dooper
The difference in cultural variants depended on the time period. When the life expectancy was around 30-35, and a culture was primarily an agrarian society, then certainly, young women took mates earlier than we do today.

Life expectancy is an AVERAGE. In old world times, many died as infants or very young due to childhood disease, some others died in war or childbirth, the average NATURAL life expectancy for those that survived the above was still about the same as today.

Example:
Infant = 0 years
70 year old = 70 years
AVERAGE life expectancy = 35 years

Aisha, Mohammeds child bride, the one who held him as he died when she was only 18, the one who lived the rest of her life glorifying him, and even waged WAR and LEAD an army into battle in the desert (yes there were some very strong willed women even back then) lived to be in her 90's.

When people talk about his "child bride" they always FORGET to talk about what a spitfire she was as a very young woman, how she spoke her mind to her husband and to everyone else. They forget to mention what an amazing woman she became, and where her loyalties lied. She rocked the Islamic world. She was never passive, she was never a victim of anything, she was a force to be reckoned with. And she was always devoted to her husband.


[edit on 24-12-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by dooper
The difference in cultural variants depended on the time period. When the life expectancy was around 30-35, and a culture was primarily an agrarian society, then certainly, young women took mates earlier than we do today.

Islam is the problem. Not just children, but women period are considered chattel. Islam is stuck in the seventh century as was its pedophile Prophet.

His goal in his raids was more stuff. More money, more influence, more women.

Not only was Muhammed a pedophile, but he was into the incest thing as well. He just followed wherever his pecker pointed.

Rabble! Rabble! Rabble!

Once again you are accusing the man in the article and all Muslims of pedophilia when no such thing has occurred or is even suggested(other than through poor wording), because of something that supposedly happened ages ago.

All the holy books are hearsay, so even with something that most religions would have covered up by now you are still leaping to accusations that don't have much place in this thread. Stop trying to incite hatred against Islam with appeals to emotion.

Originally posted by eNumbraOnce again you are accusing the man in the article and all Muslims of pedophilia when no such thing has occurred or is even suggested(other than through poor wording), because of something that supposedly happened ages ago.

Based on the article, the man was definitely NOT a pedophile. His child bride does not even know he exists, and will wait 10 years to discover he exists.

Back in the old days the rule was simple, older enough to bleed, old enough to breed. Even the ancient Christians and Jews did NOT criticize Mohammed for taking a young bride, they only criticized him for having several wives. Young was very common.