homemade body armor...

Well...I feel strongly about this. I know KEVLAR was first used in automotive tires. It was designed to make a nice sidewll in tires that was impervious to blowouts. I;m thinking ...cut down some tires and see if they stop handgun ammo.
I saw a site a few months back where a guy used a kind of felt material and put it into a homemeade liner.The felt looked pretty dense and would pack up under the projectile.
My friend is a finish carpenter that builds furniture. I have worked in Security and Law Enforcement much of my life. We were discussing taking a Wal Mart coffee table and mounting a piece of steel under it with a heavy steel handle. The thoughts are if we kived in a project or area where drive by shootingss occur, We could sit the table up and get behind it.Cops could use it as a sheild and carry it to the front door and return fire.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by BIGDAVE54]

okaayyyy. Tried to edit the typos in the olast post and it would not let me repost. I am an old fart that makes a few mistakes at 4am some mornings. I need an edit function that works ...

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

I currently have a vest in development that (and is proved in testing) will stop any round of any kind from any range excluding 50 cal, Armour Piercing or DU kinetic penetrators, and will even stand up to multiple hits in the same area with no loss of protection....... and is LIGHT!

Well, Ummm... If one was wearing that AND got hit with a 50cal or DU wouldn't it pretty much liquefy every bone in the immediate area of impact?

Any subsequent hits would essentially be pushing the gelatinous mass inside the armor down the road?

Quality of life after even one hit from that ammo would be extremely impaired.

I am not sure how much of his 'knowledge' ( if half is true) Troy Hurtubise would share would you but this wiki summary should give you idea of what he is about and what crazy things, beside wrestling with bears, he does in all the spare time he seems to have.

Again i really have not researched his claims but the few bear wrestingly videos i have seen on Ripley's ( and few other shows) sure got my attention.

1313 Paste

One of Hurtubise's latest projects has been the creation of a new paste that he's called 1313 and believes could be put to good military use. It is a mixture of all his previous concoctions applied to a kevlar fiber pad and then subjected to high pressure for the period of a day in a press. The result is a board or tile-like panel. The panel is placed in layers with other materials such as tiles. The resulting composite material can withstand a direct assault by shotgun slugs, rifle fire, and enough high explosive to demolish a car, yet is quite inexpensive to manufacture.

At an enthusiastic demonstration taped by Daily Planet, Troy displayed its capability to a Canadian military observer. In one of Troy's demonstrations, the composite material was placed in cushions meant to be placed over the outside of a Humvee. In the tests, the material successfully blocked explosive charges greater than those of a rocket propelled grenade, although they were not shaped charges, and was able to block shot after shot on exactly the same point of impact by a sniper rifle (which is a feat no material in use by the U.S. nor any other military has matched in public demonstrations).

It is Troy's desire to see military vehicles, currently in service in Afghanistan, equipped with such protection in order to stand up to a landmine explosion, which has already claimed the lives of Canadian soldiers serving there. That, along with his younger brother serving in the Canadian military, inspired the creation of 1313.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Have fun and i hope you have more luck than he did in finding people who will take shots at your new armor designs.

Stellar

Very interesting topic... wanted to share my thoughts

I also have been wondering whether or not homemade ballistic protection is feasible. Initially I want to create a plate which can be used in commercially available plate carrier vests, but ideally I would want a full body suit.

After all my research I basically came to two conclusions - the plate would have to be multi-layed with different materials, and should be configured in a scale-armor design. I want to achieve Level III protection, which commercially means either 1/2" ceramic plate or 1/4" ballistic steel, or in other words, high cost or weight. The other option (although only available to MIL,LE) is dragon skin, which has smaller round plates comprised of a titanium plate and a ceramic disk, arranged in a scale design, wrapped in kevlar layers. The materials I figure would work the best together (and are reasonably cheap and easily obtainable) are steel, polycarbonate, ceramic, ballistic gel, plastic, and titanium wire.

** NOTE ** I personally have not tested any of this ** NOTE **

Based on several conclusions I came to, in regard to how the materials reacted to gun shots, I came up with the following configuration

Outer Shell - Plastic shell that contains all the layers. Something I wanted to test was a titanium tri-weave incorporated into the plastic, or any other type of fabric/wire weave.

Outer Layer - Polycarbonate, on top of a layer of ballistic gel, or any other type of gel that can create an 'air cushion' effect. I also wanted to test the fabric/wire weave incorporated into the gel, rather then the outer shell

Mid Layer - Either ceramic (Mythbuster's experiment with bathroom ceramic tiles intrigued me) tiles or another polycarbote layer, sandwiched with glass.

Inner Layer - Steel, thickness yet to be determined. This is the protective layer. Underneath the steel layer will be the padded layer (some sort of high density foam), to reduce blunt trauma.

All the layers will be held together, and be made into 1" - 2" disks. Disks will then be layered into scale armor sections, one for each major muscle group. All those different sections will be encased into a hard plastic shell for each body group.

The major technical problem is the overall thickness of a plate - I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if an armor like this would be 2" - 3" thick in the end. I'd like it to be somewhere between 1" - 1 1/2" thick, that's a little more reasonable and should still allow for great mobility. Another thing that would need to be balanced out is the weight, cost, and protection.

Weight - a vest, I'd want around 20 lbs, but thats asking for a lot lol. A full body suit, 40-60 lbs. Although, I had an idea for incorporating a frame system, which technically, should take some load of the wearer - but that idea is a long way off.

Cost - Not really a main issue... i'd rather spend smaller amount of money for material over a long time period, then a huge amount of money in one day.

Protection - I have no doubt that the various materials will stop bullets, it all comes down to how thick each layer needs to be. There are 6 rounds I want to test - 9mm, .45 cal, 223, 7.62, 30-06, .50 cal (hang guns, rifles, snipers). Hand guns shouldn't be a problem, rifles I have my doubts, sniper round, just wanna see what happens - who knows, may be pleasantly surprised

In the end, I'm looking to create something that is a cross between the batman begins and dark knight suit, with Level III protection. But first, I wanna work on a simple alternative to armor plates for molle vests lol

There is a show called Brainiac - it's childish but hey... They did a section on making body armour on the spot and both the home and the office, quite funny.

Any way packs of A4 copier stopped everything up to a cross bow bolt at close range - So there is a budget option I suppose, also a heavy wok and a flat panel computer monitor were quite effective...

Homemade Body Armor-
This is a touchy subject because if you get it wrong then some one could get seriously hurt or killed. With that said I will qualify myself and tell you what I know about it and let you draw your own conclsions.

I was on a police SWAT team for 6 years. I tested body armor with several types of handgun and rifle rounds. There are several items to take into consideration but first lets talk about how most of the body armor works- It does not stop a bullet, it traps a bullet. Now think about what I just said before yoy try to build your own armor.

The shock of the bullet must be absorbed by the material before it will stop and not penetrate the material, no matter what kind of material it is.
( I am not referring to harden steele)
I was there at the beginning when the stuff first came out. I was on LAPD I bought one of the very first soft vests available at the time( circa 1970)
I believe the name of it was "Second Chance" it was a very thick kevlar material with layers of kevelar about 15-20 layers with a steachy type of plastic inbetween each layer so it was bulky & hot but it worked for stoping all hand guns up to a 44 Mag. It woked by streaching as the bullet hit your body to trap the bullet. If you put this vest over a cement wall or steel plate it would not work because it was not designed to work unless it could expand into you body( left a nasty bruise) but it worked and at that time that is all that mattered.

Later on when I was the Armouer for a SWAT on another dept. I ran several test to see what it takes for soft body armot to stop a rifle bullet.

I discovered that two layers of a standard level 2-vest with a 1/2 piece of bullistic fiber glass solid plate in between the two layer stopped a 223 (5.56) or 308 but not a 30-06 rifle round.

The main point to remeber is, what are you trying to accomplish.
The bullet must be slowed down and caused to flaten out or break up
( thick glass) or ceramic. as the bullet is slowed down and the nose starts to flatten out the material will start to catch it and trap it ( if properly designed ) before it goes through the material you are using for the outter, middle or back layers. If it is an armor piercing bullet you will not be able to stop it.( most military ammo is lead or steele core)

So in conclusion I am not going to make any recommendations but by now hopfully you better understand how body armor works. Even the new stuff works on the same principle they just adjust the soft or strachy, or armor plate to meet the need. I hope from this you drew the conclusion to be very careful when testing the body aromr and be sure to test it on a test dummy that has a two inch layer of puddy or soft clay to mimic the human body or you will not receive the best results. KMG

There are two main objectives for body armor.... you must both stop penetration

which wasn't what she said....

and spread the energy of the round over in time and area to keep from liquefying organs.

How would a high density nylon do with a little kevlar? How about garage floor epoxy sandwiched with boron carbide type and other hard ceramics?

It would be awsome if there was a tupe of armor like the ones unsed in Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

I'm very interested in this topic too, because I have a "flak vest" I wound up with from my years as an M1A2 Tanker in the Army, Hoohah (Yeah I hate that word more than you). lol. But it is just a flak vest, fully lined with kevlar fabric about 3/4 inch thick. Right now it could only catch light fragmentation. But I see the huge potential in it. I'm not rich but I am trying to find something I could line ontop of it that would "STOP" a bullet from at least a 45 or weak loaded shotgun (trying to be practical). Ceramic bathroom tiles glued to like 1/4 inch steel sounds theoretically sound.. But I don't know if bathroom tiles are remotely the same as actually "armor ceramics". And I don't have enough kevlar to test it with real bullets. lol. I guess I want someone very smart who knows thier stuff to tell me "This will work with your kevlar flak vest".

oh, btw, it's not the standard issue body armor you see most soldiers wearing. It's a "Vest" we wore under that. We called it the chicken vest. It's like what cops wear under their uniforms. But yeah I want to beef it up so I could take a slug if I ever needed to, It's got velcro inserts in the bottom. it's designed to add armor. Just so you know though. I'm a peace loving American. I don't mean any harm to anyone I only mean to defend. If I take a bullet, it's for the right reason. So any real answer would be great.. [email protected]

[edit on 14-1-2010 by Jestowe]

[edit on 14-1-2010 by Jestowe]

[edit on 14-1-2010 by Jestowe]

anyone have any good links from reliable source to purchase materials?

Originally posted by Jestowe
But I don't know if bathroom tiles are remotely the same as actually "armor ceramics".

Some how I very much doubt it - they will shatter at the slightest hit with a hammer and fall apart.

'Armour ceramics' shatter on a much finer level but still hold together don't they? - Do they use ceramics in personal armor anyway? - I thought that was heavier stuff like helicopters and tanks?

Oh here we go...

Ceramics such as alumina and boron carbide have been used in ballistic armored vests to repel large-calibre rifle fire. Such plates are known commonly as Small Arms Protective Inserts (SAPI). Similar material is used to protect cockpits of some military airplanes, because of the low weight of the material.

wiki

Boron carbide (chemical formula B4C) is an extremely hard ceramic material used in tank armor, bulletproof vests, and numerous industrial applications. With a hardness of 9.3 on the mohs scale, it is one of the hardest materials known, behind cubic boron nitride and diamond. Boron carbide was discovered in the 19th century as a by-product of reactions involving metal borides, however, its chemical formula was unknown. It was not until the 1930s that the formula was determined to be B4C.[1] Boron carbide is now produced industrially by the carbo-thermal reduction of B2O3 (boron oxide) in an electric arc furnace.

Boron carbide

I want a liquid bullet proof vest

i wouldnt be walking into a firefight wearing bathroom wall tiles hoping they will stop high cal. bullets. just my word on the subject. i would be sure it was the real thing. anyone try the tire thing yet?

Originally posted by BIGDAVE54
Well...I feel strongly about this. I know KEVLAR was first used in automotive tires. It was designed to make a nice sidewll in tires that was impervious to blowouts. I;m thinking ...cut down some tires and see if they stop handgun ammo.
I saw a site a few months back where a guy used a kind of felt material and put it into a homemeade liner.The felt looked pretty dense and would pack up under the projectile.
My friend is a finish carpenter that builds furniture. I have worked in Security and Law Enforcement much of my life. We were discussing taking a Wal Mart coffee table and mounting a piece of steel under it with a heavy steel handle. The thoughts are if we kived in a project or area where drive by shootingss occur, We could sit the table up and get behind it.Cops could use it as a sheild and carry it to the front door and return fire.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by BIGDAVE54]

have you since tested any of these 2 ideas BigDave54?

here is the ultimate home made body armour...

LOL I can't not mention this...

I wish I had a pic

There is/was a guy here locally that was an inventor of sorts, made tornado balls....big lexan plastic balls like for gerbils, but human sized, theory that wind can't pick up round objects.....dunno..
Never thought about lexan and bullet proofing abilliteies...hmmm

But one of his other inventions was for riot/mob attacks, type situation and was really nothing more than a big barrel..little bigger than a 55 gallon one, much much heavyer, and thicker, with a wide training wheel style base so you could in theory still be somewhat mobile.

Everyone calls the guy a freak, but some of his ideas are really, far ahead of what those ppl calling crazy could see them used for.

reply to post by DrMattMaddix


It is not that simple. Blunt Force Trauma or Kinetic Trauma can be mitigated by additional functionality within the vest. So the Armour Plating will stop the penetration, and an additional energy dissipation system, possible using an advanced STF, would stop the blunt force trauma, or reduce it to such a level that it no longer poses a serious threat to the wearer/user.

There are many ways around the problem, and i am 100% certain that clever engineering can overcome the problems the the materials themselves cannot/appear not to.

So saying it would turn him to mush, frankly, is misinformed and jumping the gun a bit. It can be possible to totally protect a wearer from all small calibre arms, from penetration to kinetic blunt force trauma.

Give me a million quid for materials research and a year and im certain i could engineer a vest, using hightech alloys, nanotechnology and clever engineering that could not only withstand, but down right laugh in the face of any currently fielded small arms munitions. I already have a type of armour plating that will do that, and plans and designs and an early prototype for a, what i refer to as, energy dissipation system - just the two have not been married together yet due to funding issues.

The problem is not its not possible more its not possible cheaply. But it is possible. At the end of the day, the government/military wont spend 50 grand on 1 vest that can totally protect the user as it takes away funds from, what they consider, more important developments in other fields of study.

Which is a mistake - but hey, they know best............ Oh, Wait, Hang on....

My firm is currently in development stages of a lightweight titanium alloy 6AL-4V and Carbon Kevalar/Ti weave plate for use in the current ballistic vest used by the US military. I don't suggest using steel plates if you are trying to develop your own plates as the thickness to stop a .30 cal AP round per NIJ ballistics standards would be extremely heavy and not very practical. Also, you cannot duplicate the tests that a ballistic certification firm such as Hailom can perform. You may be able to stop the bullet with back deformity to the plate, but the result will be blunt force trauma to the reverse which can at times be more harmful than a through and through gunshot wound.

Just a little advice.

Now if you really want to make your own armor, I would invest in a .5" piece of Tiatanium Alloy such as a Level 5 or 38. The tensile strength is adequate and if combined with a ballistic kevlar weave should be able to stop the rounds.

What I am currently developing is a combination of lightweight Ti Alloy and my own combination of fiber weaves and padding. The armor pieces will be incorporated into a Kevlar upper and the armor plates will allow free movement and complete extremity coverage including joints which will all be removeable. Rocket packs optional ;-)

Ballistic testing at Hailom for NIJ Cat IV certification is about $300 per test. Not too expensive.

Or you can just buy some Dragonskin for your vest when you deploy.