Wow leveller, you know what is essential and what isn’t. where did you obtain this knowledge? Since it’s a pschyological fact that people tend to stay with what they know I guess I’ll have to see the error of my ways. I’ve always thought humans were capable of
original, unique thought?
“Its doubtful Christianity would have had a single follower...”-pure speculation. Elements that weren’t availible elsewhere? Like what, specifics please.
Generalizations and speculation do nothing to prove your point.
I guess I should have made it more clear about what I meant. It appears that people can be
vicious when dating and questioning the validity of christian artifacts (which they should be). However, these same people look at mithraism and say this is definetely of this date, this is what they believed and these were there ideas. All based on sparse artifacts and artwork. That is a double standard.
Yes the church is drenched in dogma. That doesn’t prove jesus came from mithra though. It only shows that its POSSIBLE that jesus came from somewhere else but it doesn’t show where.
No, I don’t expect the truth to fall into my lap. I’ve searched and I don’t see your “truth”. Just because I haven’t found the evidence doesn’t means it exists either (I will keep searching though). You seem rather sure of yourself. Your already convinced that the
connection is there and anybody that says different is wrong, yet you fail to prove them wrong. Since I haven’t found your “truth” I’m either not looking in the right places or I haven’t looked hard enough. That philosophy is almost as bad as the churches you despise.
Explain how christianity evolved?-This thread is about the possible connection of mithra to jesus and that’s what I will continue to discuss.

Well you still haven't answered the question that I posed to you about what you think happened.

But anyway, have you actually read the link that was placed at the top of this thread? In it, it states that there are many things that Mithras was connected with before Jesus supposedly came along. The link is a reference to the older Iranian cult.

Of course, you can always explain away the virgin birth, the shepherds, the bishops mitre, the baptisms, the rebirths and the rest by stating that all religions contain some similarities, but that really is avoiding the truth. In my opinion, the fact that Christianity contains these similarities is rather a pointing finger.

Let's look at it this way shall we? If I shouted from the rooftops 2000 years ago that I knew someone who had his head on backwards and talked through his feet and a thousand years later someone else comes up with the same claim and yet no proof, isn't it likely that he heard my earlier stories?

Like I said earlier, study history. Look at the faiths, the politics, the cultures, evolution, psychology, symbology, ritualism, nation building. If you can't see a link - that is your fault.

I suppose the complete coincidence that we celebrate Christ's birthday on the same day as Mithras will be totally explainable too? Even though Mithras was being celebrated on this day centuries before Christ was?

As for this comment - Its doubtful Christianity would have had a single follower..."-pure speculation".

Pure speculation? Are you actually aware that Christinity was so fragile that it took over 1000 years after the death of Christ to gain anything like a broad base of followers in Europe? Christianity had a massive fight against paganism as the main religion of Europe - a battle it didn't win until well into the 11th century.




[Edited on 11-4-2004 by Leveller]

Okay, I've have gotten away from my argument and shouldn't have. Leveller, we are arguing 2 diff things. I am not interested in "christianity", even though I did try to argue for it. Christianity is still evolving so I'm sure there will be even more similarities to other religions that will surface.
This thread is called "Mithra the REAL jesus christ".
It is not called Mithra the FAKE christianity. I want to know how jesus is connected to Mithra. There is a lot of evidence that the jewish christian believers did not believe in the virgin birth. They considered him a mere human who was sent by god. Its possible that this is the REAL jesus. Now suppose it is, how do you prove that this same man is connected to Mithra. He came, did some miracles, tried to show us the Way, died on a cross, when he finally did die he was "spiritually" resurrected, afterwards causing a stir. Where is mithra amongst that? That is my question, I do not care anything about the FAKE jesus created by the church; so leave him out of the discussion.
So what , his birthday is celebrated on the 25th. he wasn't born on that day. All you've shown is the figure created by the "christianity" movement has one similarity to mithra (osiris, and a whole host of others). This thread is about the REAL jesus, not the churches supped up FAKE jesus.
No, I will not explain away virgin births, shepherds, etc by saying all religions have similarities. I've already dealt with some of that; I stated that mithra wasn't born of a virgin, didn't have 12 discliples, etc, etc. Do you deny any of that and want to prove otherwise. A scholarly book or some reference to an artifact will suffice, a website with no credits won't.

Many over the centuries saw through the self-interest of the priest-class. But only after removing the Christian threat of torturous death for thinking freely, did some speak out against the religion. Fortunately, the US instituted such freedom from its beginning and its early leaders were outspoken in their correspondence.

Eloquently elucidated by none other than Thomas Jefferson:
"The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
From:
"Thomas Jefferson," an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and "Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim" by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

I see Jesus as the only person not to have broken the 10 commandments, especially with the twists he puts on them, hate is like murder, lust is like adultery, ect..

The church has twisted the message to make it appealing to the masses and we all can see how human misjudgement and corruption can spoil a good message.

Most make their own religion some go to church for guidance on their journey, everyone has some sort of idealology and doing whatever it takes(watch out for evil and stealing) to make money is the ones living off is just one ideal. Those living on the good book better have common sense not be out of line with their faith and reconize when they are wrong it is them or their misinformation and false ideals

All religious figures some sort of idol and so is the $$. Worship the idea of God and existance not an idol.
Respect others for what they are and pray for those in need before yourself is all one can do.

Every where there is corruption and living pure is out of the question, working for a living is a great thing. Those in poverty who have to steal to eat should get some mercy. Everyone should be responsible for themselves to make it and not rely on others for handouts, the problem with this working is too many are born into povery with no easy way out. Drugs and addiction can land a blessed person into poverty and crime.

Who was Jesus? Was he even the real deal? If he didnt die can I still meet him? Thats all I wanna know about religion.

Does anyone know anything about Josephus being of the Piso family?

I'll try to dig up some links if I can.




1

Originally posted by iceofspades
I've studied this a bit and even presented a report of the fact that Christianity is simply a duplicate of this Mithras cult. Get this, it was at a Catholic school. Ha they ate my words and were speechless...

The Mithras cult were the inventors of the "blood and body" idea, as well as the savior idea. Christianity is nothing more than an elaborate, and rather successful hoax that brainwashed and destroys proper advancement of society.

Read my siggy

I wish I could have been there for your report. When I was in Catholic school I was slapped out of my desk and had it overturned and emptied on top of me by a hysterical shreiking nun because my desk was untidy. The nuns at my school would have dismembered you with their rosaries, then eaten your body parts.