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Mithras, the real Jesus Christ?

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posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 07:47 PM
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Of course, this all depends which mithra your talking about. Iranian mithra is a more unique, but roman mithra evidence itself isn't very convincing considering the dates its been given.
Mr Mithra's plorethra:
1)Mithra born on Dec 25th - jesus wasn't
2)born of a virgin in a cave (nope, he was born out of a rock and he was born an adult)- not that it matters because jesus may not have been born of a virgin and its likely jesus wasn't born in a cave.
3)The roman mithra didnt sacrifice himself, he sacrificed a bull
4)is there any reference to mithra dying and resurrecting...hmmm, where?
5)all those titles he supposibly had that were similar to christs; its funny no real mithraic scholar (like franz cumont) ever mentions them.
6) the whole bit about Mithra having 12 discliples that is absolutely laughable, do you know how they drew that conclusion?
Instead of just believing what Freke and Grady, Acharya say in their books ask a real mithraic scholar about all of this. All one has to do is take a look at the sources "the conspiracist, copycators" present. one of them has a paper as a source about some temple that was never even documented to be true. I suggest looking at Franz Cumonts work if your interested in the Mithra man. I wished I could see the connection because then it would save me alot of trouble of studying religions. If everything is just a copy what would be the point?
if your going to spout out theories then you should atleast have some good data to back it up, which there isn't. By the way, I'm not one of those ridiculous bible literalists. Just a seeker




posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 11:11 PM
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Mithras evolved with time. He became a synthesis just as the Christ figure did. The following three links, accompanied with excerpts, provide further scholarly evidence of christological syncretization.

Litjournal
Mythra was originally an Iranian warrior god who, according to the Avesta (Zoroastrian scripture) assisted the God of supreme Goodness and Light, Ahura-Mazda, in his cosmic battle against the Lord of Evil and Darkness, Ahriman. Somehow the Roman Mythras (not Mythra) gained autonomy from his Iranian roots as worship of him spread across the Greek and Roman worlds.

In the Roman cultic version, Mythras was a sun-god born miraculously in a cave. The miracle pointed to future miraculous accomplishments (not unlike Horus or Jesus). His birthday was celebrated with the kindling of lights just after the winter solstice: namely December 25--a date that was considered as well to be that of the birth of the sun. Early Christian celebrated Jesus birth on January 6, currently the date of the feast of the Epiphany. January 6, by the way, may have also been a holdover from more ancient rites, as it was considered the date of the birth of Osiris. Christmas was later moved to December 25.

Wikipedia
...As the enemy of darkness and evil spirits, he protected souls, accompanying them to paradise (a Persian concept and even a Persian word), and was thus a redeemer...

Finally man is well established on earth and Mithra returns to heaven. He celebrates a last supper with Helios and his other companions, is taken in his fiery chariot across the ocean, and now in heaven protects his followers. For the struggle between good and evil continues in heaven between the planets and stars, and on earth in the heart of man.

...Mithra is the Mediator (Mesites) between God and man...

Oxford University Press
Here in the end we may sense a profound kinship between Mithraism and Christianity. For early Christianity also contained at its core an ideology of cosmic transcendence. Nowhere is this better expressed than in the opening of the earliest gospel, Mark. There, at the beginning of the foundation story of Christianity, we find Jesus, at the moment of his baptism, having a vision of "the heavens torn open." Just as Mithras is revealed as a being from beyond the universe capable of altering the cosmic spheres, so here we find Jesus linked with a rupture of the heavens, an opening into the numinous realms beyond the furthest cosmic boundaries. Perhaps, then, the figures of Jesus and Mithras are to some extent both manifestations of a single deep longing in the human spirit for a sense of contact with the ultimate mystery.



posted on Apr, 9 2004 @ 11:51 PM
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Lots of Important information about our history has been ignored or covered up. Very good links you've posted btw. Here's one i have and thought i'd share it along with the other links posted here.

www.revilo-oliver.com...

by Revilo P. Oliver

Professor of the Classics, Retired; University of Illinois, Urbana

OF THE MANY PROBLEMS that confront us today, none is more vexing than that of the relation of Christianity to Western Civilization. None, certainly, causes more acrimonious controversy and internecine hostility between the members of the race which created that civilization. None more thoroughly counteracts their common interest in its preservation and renders them impotent and helpless. And that is not remarkable: what is in question is the essential nature of our civilization, and if there is no agreement about that, there can be no effective agreement on other questions.


[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Sapphire]



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 12:11 AM
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Why do people spend their life trying so hard to disprove something that they do not believe in?Is it is because it is so much easier to not believe than to believe?
Why not just for kicks,try the flip side of the subject.Open up your minds and try to understand and prove the bible true.Even if you believe with all your heart it is not.If nothing else it will be a great excercise in debate,and if you are truly liberal minded maybe you will get a different perspective on the subject.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 12:29 AM
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Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Why do people spend their life trying so hard to disprove something that they do not believe in?Is it is because it is so much easier to not believe than to believe?
Why not just for kicks,try the flip side of the subject.Open up your minds and try to understand and prove the bible true.Even if you believe with all your heart it is not.If nothing else it will be a great excercise in debate,and if you are truly liberal minded maybe you will get a different perspective on the subject.


What makes you think we haven't? I've been on both sides of the road, studied both, experienced both, and as Jesus said, seek that ye may find. To trust anyone based on mass popular belief has to say would be ignorant. I enjoy learning and studying and discovering interesting facts like 'there were 16 other crucified christs'. I mean wow, what a thing to hide from people?! Its a part of our human history so why not look at all of it instead of just a small portion simply because a bunch of guys in white robes said so? Ignorance is Bliss...



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 12:34 AM
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Interesting that you say that Sap, and I am not fully disputing what you say, but you must also beaware of the disclaimer that comes with such...as in your mention of the "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors"?


Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors



seekerof



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Interesting that you say that Sap, and I am not fully disputing what you say, but you must also beaware of the disclaimer that comes with such...as in your mention of the "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors"?


Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors



seekerof


No problem Seek, we all have our views but it is a fact that Religions all seem to reflect the same 'beginnings' and religious ideals. Here's an example of that ..
Thankyou for your comments and for the link.

www.paganizingfaithofyeshua.freeservers.com...



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 01:05 AM
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As commented earlier, on adaptations for the Gentiles, Gospels seem to congrugate with Mythras.

It may well be so that the Gospel that is most reliable is that of Thomas, since all the other Gospels seem to steer toward the Mythras myth.

Taking it from there, many essential truths are present in the Bible. Sorting through the adaptations that Christianity faced in preaching to the Gentiles, one may envision why the similarities accorded into Mythras.

It would seem that after you sift through those similarities and even for a moment toss them out, there still remains a core of essential truths that are unique to the Christian way. Sorting the "wheat fromt the chaff," is an everpresent task it seems.

Religion has much floatsum and jetsum, but in promise of ideas and ideals you reach for the next level.


When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains--however improbable--must be the truth. --Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by SkipShipman]



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Why do people spend their life trying so hard to disprove something that they do not believe in?Is it is because it is so much easier to not believe than to believe?



Actually, it's a damn sight easier to believe in something that you've been brainwashed with than to hunt for the truth and disbelieve it.
Why try to disprove Christianity? Well, when you look around you, you will find that every single thing that you do in your life has a basis in the Bible. The way you live, eat, sleep, drink - our very society was founded on the rules and advice that is contained in that book. By finding out about Christianity you are finding out why you live the way that you do - it directly affects you.

My personal belief is that Jesus was a symbol. It doesn't necessarily matter to me if he actually lived or not. Looking at religious history and the figures in other faiths who correspond to Jesus, there is one underlying element - that of living your life to the best of your abilities. To me, that is far more important than believing in a story of a living god which is the only way to Salvation.

My belief from the evidence, is that Christianity sprang from gnosticism. This means that God is a personal thing for everyone and not something that is dictated to you by the Church. The problem with gnostisism is that it allowed personal freedom and definition - freedom to worship is the most powerful tool that a man can ever possess. The Church of history could never allow such a power in the hands of the ordinary man. You only have to look to the Middle East of today to see how control over religion subjugates it's followers.

By the way. There are those here who are pointing out that Mithras was born in a cave, and that this mean that he therefore has no relevance to Jesus. Firstly, it was wise for Christianity not to borrow every nuance from a single character. Jesus would merely have been seen as a blatant copy so his story takes bits and pieces from many religious figures. This way he had more appeal to more followers in the early days. By taking characteristics that weren't always from the mainline part of a religion but from sects within those religions, Jesus became universal.

Secondly, the translation of the word "stable" in the Bible can be disputed. The word used is "katalemna". This means temporary shelter. A temporary shelter could mean temporary as in stable or cave.

www.biblehistory.com...

As you can see, there is a cave under the Church of the Nativity!!!

There is the same confusion over the translation for Jesus being a carpenter. The word used in the Bible means that although he could be a carpenter, he could just as well be a builder of any sort.

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 09:48 AM
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It is a fact that there are going to be some similar things in all religions (for the most part). Like there is a god, evil vs. good, miracles, blah, blah. But trying to tie every religion to one another isn't convincing enough. Its difficult to even connect Iranian mithra to Roman mithra.
Skip, how do the gospels steer towards mithra. Where at? I don't see it. I made a list of some things that people connect mithra to christ with, but it didn't fair to well.
Leveller, yes, it was quite wise for christianity to not borrow every element. but it could be even wiser to have not borrowed ANY. Once again, what element has been borrowed?
I've never thought he was born in a stable. Thats just another one of the churches "cute" additions. Its possible it was a cave. My theory is that a temporary shelter could have been a booth; they had those during that time. It was part of a Judaic custom at certain times of the year I believe.
I find it quite amazing how people question the date and accuracy of any christianity artifact; yet, that scrupulence disappears when we step back further in history. Alot of mithra artifacts are dated 1st century AD. Its quite possible mithra as evolved it borrowed from christianity (that is, if anyone borrowed, which I don't think either did). I think both evolved seperately, just as the two mithras evolved seperately. One person posted a link to a book that says the scholarship of the person who wrote it is questionable and not to be trusted-very good



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by KSoze

Leveller, yes, it was quite wise for christianity to not borrow every element. but it could be even wiser to have not borrowed ANY. Once again, what element has been borrowed?

I find it quite amazing how people question the date and accuracy of any christianity artifact; yet, that scrupulence disappears when we step back further in history. Alot of mithra artifacts are dated 1st century AD. Its quite possible mithra as evolved it borrowed from christianity (that is, if anyone borrowed, which I don't think either did).


No. Ity wasn't wise to borrow - it was essential. A psychological fact is that people like to stay with what they know. If Christianity had evolved as unique it is doubtful whether it would have found a single follower. It would have needed a much more powerful story than the virgin birth, miracles and crucifixion if it had evolved without elements that weren't already available elsewhere.

You find it quite amazing that a lot of Mithras artifacts date to 100AD. In my opinion, this means that you have no understanding of the evolution of Christianity. Christianity did not evolve overnight. It wasn't a powerful religion until centuries after the death of Christ. It didn't just spring up with the symbols and objects of reverence that we associate with it today. The very fact that Christianity was growing whilst Mithras worship was at it's height suggests that there was a cross over of some doctrines.

You want facts? It's a fact that the Church is drenched in dogma. Do you really expect to have the truth fall into your lap? Go look for the evidence yourself. You claim to have studied Mithras yet just because you can't find links you state that they are not there. Try looking harder. Not finding evidence in one place doesn't mean it's not there in others.

Even better. Explain to us how you think Christianity evolved.



posted on Apr, 10 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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Actually, it's a damn sight easier to believe in something that you've been brainwashed with than to hunt for the truth and disbelieve it.
Why try to disprove Christianity? Well, when you look around you, you will find that every single thing that you do in your life has a basis in the Bible. The way you live, eat, sleep, drink - our very society was founded on the rules and advice that is contained in that book. By finding out about Christianity you are finding out why you live the way that you do - it directly affects you.






See that's where you start to be wrong--to claim that Christianity is the basis of our morals nowadays is totally wrong.

You know why? Because our morals are based on human *obviousness*. We all know not to kill others, we all know that lieing and stealing are wrong, we know all your so called "original rules" simply by being human. To claim that Christianity invented human goodness is utterly insane.

And what about all the other rules in the bible--other than those in the ten commandments. The bible condones wife battery, slavery, gruesome murder, and torture among many other things. If we all followed the bible word for word, all our divorced couples (a HUGE portion of the world's population) would be executed, wife battery victims would not be helped, we would still have plenty of slaves, and many people who do not deserve to be dead would be dead.

How does a so-called loving God support such things? I don't know how it is possible; but it is. Read the bible.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 04:36 AM
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Originally posted by iceofspades



See that's where you start to be wrong--to claim that Christianity is the basis of our morals nowadays is totally wrong.

Read the bible.



I've read the Bible many times. I'm afraid that it is you who is wrong. Where do I mention moral rules?
I've stated that the Bible is responsible for creating our society.
Instead of giving shallow replies based on morality and spirituality, why don't you go read your history books. Look at how the nation states were founded. Look at how monarchies, papacies and political organisations were founded. Look at laws that were enacted because of what was written. Look at how the Bible directly affects your physical life - not your spiritual life.

So you see, I don't "start to be wrong". You do by not looking deep enough.

[Edited on 11-4-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 10:43 AM
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To believe in time.. Is to believe is had never exsisted. To believe it has never exsisted is to believe is nothing as their is no concept... To believe in change and growth, thus has to put a concept of a beginning , middle, experimentation, failures, and repeat till it is refined. There were many experiements on this plane, however of traveling through time in the physical ( not spritual regression), I saw a massive cycle how all these elder gods/myths did infact exsist to govern us.. It indeed was so complex that I was trapped for hours on end in an electromagentic vortex(barbwire over electric fencing/every other electric breaker box being turned off/ massive irrigation systems(zimmatic) trying to replicate a form of life, Thus Cattle were constantly being experimented on and how they are able to create a drug that does in a confusing way allow cosmic conciousness rapidly vibrate though the central nervous system.. Infact a tool that leads so greatly once experienced to it's highest to believe that you are indeed GOD.. However confronting that notion with the elder beings is something of a conflict.. Jesus appeared and cried.. However allowed me to repay my karma long enough to see the cycles of life repeat in the lesser gods trying to replicate through time of his HONESTY and MASSIVE statement in purity rather than the games the others were trying to replicate thus promoting their statements..."There was no GOD/Devil" Which is the greatest lie....

Look at this world... Look at the repetiton that historians told old, Look at what OLD becomes new..

IT is truly that simple once pushing it to it's far limitations upmost till death of a human...







Originally posted by Sapphire

Originally posted by Seekerof
Interesting that you say that Sap, and I am not fully disputing what you say, but you must also beaware of the disclaimer that comes with such...as in your mention of the "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors"?


Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors



seekerof


No problem Seek, we all have our views but it is a fact that Religions all seem to reflect the same 'beginnings' and religious ideals. Here's an example of that ..
Thankyou for your comments and for the link.

www.paganizingfaithofyeshua.freeservers.com...



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 11:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Why do people spend their life trying so hard to disprove something that they do not believe in?Is it is because it is so much easier to not believe than to believe?


I think so... This evidence is I have even found in those I wanted to join an allience with ..Conspiracy Theorists.. However when I found what I found, the Conspiracy theorists were all the sudden panic struck and stopped talking to me (Jim Marrs, Ericca from ConspiracyCafe, Al Bieck from the orignal Philly Experiment) Infact not only did they stop talking to me... They used bits and only bits of my tale to promote their new "Unsolved Mystery" tales.. Especially Jimbo Marrs.. I like the guy yet when I talked to him and Errica about my alien encounter.. They stopped talking to me and all the sudden JIM takes a break from his JFK broken record and starts to investigate the area I was at.. Making every apperance he could on (ArtBell,Unscrewed(techTv),HisBlogs) making subtle re-hashes to his best selling book "alien agenda" which he takes that passive journalistic approach as he did with the JFK crap.. And never honestly cares to resolve the issue... You know why? Because once it is resolved their income is dried out if it didn't quite occur the way that the books led on to believe...


Anyways back to the subject.. The bible and Jesus Christ are not hip nor PC in evolved thinking socitey, because of a lot of agenda based religion and sects who have corrupted his teachings and name through many of acts that make Christians indeed the largest hyprocrites..

However the ones that want to dissaprove the bible wrong are honestly looking for another text that claims a similar meaning so that they can sub-conciously dissociate themselves from the zealouts... I find it rather lacking that people let others take over their minds in this way....

I felt the same way about the bible since much has been taken out,mistranslated, and who wrote the old testatment?

However ... Of reading virtually all other texts of the East/West and being involved with eastern techniques of Transcendental Meditaton/ having many psychedlic experiences younger that led to Heaven/Hell/Selfless/Self.. I found that "The Holy Bible" for was piece of literature that formed an educational lit value of story writing that any professional english major would undoubtly accept as A definiate structure for a Beginning , Middle and an End that was based in story's/novels as a standard to this day.. Not only that if I read this book(king James/Shakespeare) I find the lessons very deep and very prophetical lessons that infact touch every aspect of all the other lessons through time across the universe.. We have Poetry,Prose,Song,Sex(Just ask Soloman..That wise man), violence, magic,kingdom, tragedy,LOVE,wisdom,and salvation,rapture and showing how one can rise up in good sprit to defeat what ails him/the world if the heart is in the right place. Virtually everything that we think is a not a new original thought, but scribed in a new language .. And yet "Free-Will" was always the same in both OLd and New never changing except the language of the evolution and the education being filtered through events of choice.. The Karma or What Ye Sow Ye SHall Reap was just displayed a little faster .. as the master who came as Jesus Christ I think was what we know as GOD of the old testament.. He was sent to see his creation with GOD and thus felt and took the pain of the world from him allowing this to be created and it seeming to not work out that well.. Here is something I think in modern times for those who want to disprove the Bible..


Watch The News and Read Revelations: War/Prophecy/Isreal/Egypt


Watch Politics/ and Revelations: One Ruled Goverment One NEWWORLDORDER. Which Bush Sr. Has pleaded to the UN in 1990 to converge with the nations of the world. The internet, Global Community/Sole Source of Truth.. The Clinton Babylon with the rise of stupidy and the lack of reason of a Utopian ONLINE regime of money.. The Fall of Economic Sanction thus War REsolutions resuming in Iraq due to depletion of economic failure/9/11.. Axis of Evil being stated by the President... Prayer being announced in violation of many laws of the airwaves after a "Holy Tragedy in the USA mecca." See Sprit has been declined for so long.. That those who believe in sprit for what ever reason have been allowed to conqueror and divide if the EGO is truly in the cosmic fuel of the EARTH and Celestal Law.(HItler,Arafat,Binladen,BushJr.Putin,No,SaFaJarell,Revebo,Budda.Maitreya,Marishi.Ra,JesusChrist.Elohim,YAhweha.Etc)

However when one looks in the Bible and choses to look as a lawyer would instead of how a calf looks to his owner. Then the pulpit of thought will enlighten with respect to all that has lived, and seeing the argument as it in infact called Judgement Day. And why do you think those lawyers make so much money on this realm?

"

Just intresting thoughts.. Perhaps Angels were creations reflecting Animals? We need more of balance in why? And have less Benedict Historic Cannon Fodder to be swayed by the comsic Judges/Jury...




Why not just for kicks,try the flip side of the subject.Open up your minds and try to understand and prove the bible true.Even if you believe with all your heart it is not.If nothing else it will be a great excercise in debate,and if you are truly liberal minded maybe you will get a different perspective on the subject.



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 11:38 AM
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Kind of like the movie "The Passion Of Christ." Jews hollered Racism,Women hollered because of how Jesus said "Woman" to the Former "V" Mary, saying it was degrading to call a woman a "woman" like a piece of meat.. The Italians didn't like being portrayed as a bunch of mafia like henchmen.. However we all KILLED him it was society not race.. It was that little things that we harbored on is what his mission was to begin with.. And we have failed again...







Originally posted by Sapphire
Lots of Important information about our history has been ignored or covered up. Very good links you've posted btw. Here's one i have and thought i'd share it along with the other links posted here.

www.revilo-oliver.com...

by Revilo P. Oliver

Professor of the Classics, Retired; University of Illinois, Urbana

OF THE MANY PROBLEMS that confront us today, none is more vexing than that of the relation of Christianity to Western Civilization. None, certainly, causes more acrimonious controversy and internecine hostility between the members of the race which created that civilization. None more thoroughly counteracts their common interest in its preservation and renders them impotent and helpless. And that is not remarkable: what is in question is the essential nature of our civilization, and if there is no agreement about that, there can be no effective agreement on other questions.


[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Sapphire]



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 11:40 AM
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Hehe and you are wondering why I am not wanting to rush to Egypt right away?


Originally posted by Sapphire
Lots of Important information about our history has been ignored or covered up. Very good links you've posted btw. Here's one i have and thought i'd share it along with the other links posted here.

www.revilo-oliver.com...

by Revilo P. Oliver

Professor of the Classics, Retired; University of Illinois, Urbana

OF THE MANY PROBLEMS that confront us today, none is more vexing than that of the relation of Christianity to Western Civilization. None, certainly, causes more acrimonious controversy and internecine hostility between the members of the race which created that civilization. None more thoroughly counteracts their common interest in its preservation and renders them impotent and helpless. And that is not remarkable: what is in question is the essential nature of our civilization, and if there is no agreement about that, there can be no effective agreement on other questions.


[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Sapphire]



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 11:43 AM
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I believed just like you did as I hate what is going on with lies and the cover ups in the world.. However going through a timeloop and actually touching the Cross that was blood rusted with the Crown of thorns being actually nailed up on the head of the cross with a partial right side being broken.. I tend to think that it might be the people we are believing instead of the word of love...








Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Daz3d-n-Confus3d
Why do people spend their life trying so hard to disprove something that they do not believe in?Is it is because it is so much easier to not believe than to believe?



Actually, it's a damn sight easier to believe in something that you've been brainwashed with than to hunt for the truth and disbelieve it.
Why try to disprove Christianity? Well, when you look around you, you will find that every single thing that you do in your life has a basis in the Bible. The way you live, eat, sleep, drink - our very society was founded on the rules and advice that is contained in that book. By finding out about Christianity you are finding out why you live the way that you do - it directly affects you.

My personal belief is that Jesus was a symbol. It doesn't necessarily matter to me if he actually lived or not. Looking at religious history and the figures in other faiths who correspond to Jesus, there is one underlying element - that of living your life to the best of your abilities. To me, that is far more important than believing in a story of a living god which is the only way to Salvation.

My belief from the evidence, is that Christianity sprang from gnosticism. This means that God is a personal thing for everyone and not something that is dictated to you by the Church. The problem with gnostisism is that it allowed personal freedom and definition - freedom to worship is the most powerful tool that a man can ever possess. The Church of history could never allow such a power in the hands of the ordinary man. You only have to look to the Middle East of today to see how control over religion subjugates it's followers.

By the way. There are those here who are pointing out that Mithras was born in a cave, and that this mean that he therefore has no relevance to Jesus. Firstly, it was wise for Christianity not to borrow every nuance from a single character. Jesus would merely have been seen as a blatant copy so his story takes bits and pieces from many religious figures. This way he had more appeal to more followers in the early days. By taking characteristics that weren't always from the mainline part of a religion but from sects within those religions, Jesus became universal.

Secondly, the translation of the word "stable" in the Bible can be disputed. The word used is "katalemna". This means temporary shelter. A temporary shelter could mean temporary as in stable or cave.

www.biblehistory.com...

As you can see, there is a cave under the Church of the Nativity!!!

There is the same confusion over the translation for Jesus being a carpenter. The word used in the Bible means that although he could be a carpenter, he could just as well be a builder of any sort.

[Edited on 10-4-2004 by Leveller]



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 11:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Revebo


Hehe and you are wondering why I am not wanting to rush to Egypt right away?


Originally posted by Sapphire
Lots of Important information about our history has been ignored or covered up. Very good links you've posted btw. Here's one i have and thought i'd share it along with the other links posted here.

www.revilo-oliver.com...

by Revilo P. Oliver

Professor of the Classics, Retired; University of Illinois, Urbana

OF THE MANY PROBLEMS that confront us today, none is more vexing than that of the relation of Christianity to Western Civilization. None, certainly, causes more acrimonious controversy and internecine hostility between the members of the race which created that civilization. None more thoroughly counteracts their common interest in its preservation and renders them impotent and helpless. And that is not remarkable: what is in question is the essential nature of our civilization, and if there is no agreement about that, there can be no effective agreement on other questions.


[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Sapphire]


Egypt is the least of my worries right now



posted on Apr, 11 2004 @ 11:46 AM
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I agree. Except tjat I think no man had gone though what Jesus did to that extent. Making his courage and merciful honor the King of the LORDS...



quote]Originally posted by Sapphire

Originally posted by Seekerof
Interesting that you say that Sap, and I am not fully disputing what you say, but you must also beaware of the disclaimer that comes with such...as in your mention of the "The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors"?


Note: the scholarship of Kersey Graves has been questioned by numerous theists and nontheists alike; the inclusion of his The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors in the Secular Web's Historical Library does not constitute endorsement by Internet Infidels, Inc. This document was included for historical purposes; readers should be extremely cautious in trusting anything in this book.

The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors



seekerof


No problem Seek, we all have our views but it is a fact that Religions all seem to reflect the same 'beginnings' and religious ideals. Here's an example of that ..
Thankyou for your comments and for the link.

www.paganizingfaithofyeshua.freeservers.com...



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