Do You Hate Muslims If So Why, page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 4 times


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 01:02 PM by Kr0n0s
reply to post by magicmushroom




Kronos what proofs do you have that Muslims are doing this. Is it just the case we are killing them and torturing them robbing them and they are hitting back and you don't like it or what. Or do you think that we in the West have the right to do what we like to anyone and they should not dare fight back.


Haha, yea right.. they were doing this way before 9/11, way before the interrogations and way before WE decided to strike back at THEM for all of the crimes that they've committed against the western society.
The proof is all around you, its in our history! If you cant see that, then you are blind.
So dont give me the bs about naked pyramid torture or a photo of a woman pointing at the poor terrorists genitals because thats nothing compared to the way they treat prisoners, just ask Daniel Pearls family or the numerous other family members whos relatives beheading videos were showcased on some Jihad live channel for the world to see..

Before 9/11 there was the first attack on the WTC and MANY hijacked/blown up airliners and the 1979 Iranian Hostange incident.

Islam has a bloody history, it was spread throughout the middle east using violence, fear and intimidation.
Read up on the history, if you didnt convert, you died. simple as that.

[edit on 12/19/2008 by Kr0n0s]


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 02:32 PM by Kr0n0s
reply to post by magicmushroom




Kronos yes your right, then perhaps you have conveniently forgotton that the British were killing them long before they started killing us. I can go back as far as you want but it was a case that we threw the first stone and not them. If your going to look at the jigsaw then look at all the pieces not just the ons that suit.


Yea we can keep going further and further back in time when it comes to the UK and im sure well both find aggression on both sides, from both sides because both the UK and Islam have been around centuries longer than the US.

But you only asked me to cite an example(s) of pre 9/11 muslim aggression and thats what I did.


Before 9/11 there was very little evidence of Muslim extremism yet who was behind those attacks, not Muslims thats for sure yet it is those that we are waging war upon why.

However, as far as the US goes, I think it was Islam that threw the first stone.
Remember the Barbary Wars in the late 1700s to early 1800's?

Anyway, to answer your question about how I would react if the US were invaded, I think the answer is obvious but I wouldnt consider the kidnapping, torture and beheading of civilians to be part of my resistance strategy.
How is sending a suicide bomber into a group of children gathered around an ice cream truck a legitimate strategy in fighting an occupying force?
Or bombing a school full of children because that school was rebuilt with funds provided by the US Govt?
I can cite endless examples to support my argument and Im sure you can come up with examples to support yours.
I have my opinion about these people and their "peaceful" religion and you have yours but no hard feelings


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 04:33 PM by Kr0n0s
Originally posted by magicmushroom
Kronos, thank you for your replies but what I'm really trying to find out is what takes us from the point of not knowing much about a particual race of people to wanting them all dead.

What are the mechanisms that take us to that point and why do we allow ourselves to be sucked into the perps grand plan.



I dont actually hate them or want them all dead. Ive only known a handful of muslims and they were all very nice, polite and gracious people.
Also, the ones ive seen in documentary interviews or other real situation shows acted the same way but I guess some people are more vulnerable to the fanatical interpretation of Islam than others.
The extremists leaders are no different than any other con man, they go after the young and impressionable or the young angry individuals that may have lost someone in the war and those are the stories that people read about.

I dont really know how to answer your question because im not entirely sure what youre asking but.. heres one theory on how things went down.

The Soviets went broke, the wall came down and the cold war ended.
Who ever runs this country or the world, must think that the US needs to always have an enemy, for whatever reason.
And since Israel seems to have a HUGE influence on US foreign and domestic policy, Muslims fit the role of villain perfectly.

So 9/11 happens, the die is cast and everything falls into place.
I laugh at the ignorance and gullibility of my fellow Americans and how most are so quick to judge and even quicker to follow their "leaders" For a short time after 9/11 we returned to the WW2 mentality that we had towards Japanese Americans.
Remember how they were actually rounding up people, literally off the streets, that remotely resembled Arabs, most of which im sure were completely innocent.
That was a great and cruel experiment that showed the Govt just how easily they could manipulate the American people, now they realize they can use fear against us to justify anything they want, including violations of major civil rights laws.

For the record, my opinions about Islam were in no way molded by anyone, especially the govt.
My opinions were formed due to their actions now and in history, I mean seriously, the govt doesnt need to do much for people to form a negative opinion against Islam, the fanatics have taken care of that role for them.
Anyway, this is to long and i rambled to much, one thought led to another and i got carried away


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 05:11 PM by DantesLost
magicmushroom

Good thread.


The Quran does not say kill everyone that is not a Muslim, that is completely wrong. Sura4 89-94 states that one should only kill if attacked, to murder a fellow believer is wrong, and to make peace with those who offer it. As usual its sections and verses that are taken out of context by the media who then use it to spout lies and disnfo.


This is very true.

Sura 4:88-94
88 What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned ? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray ? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road.
89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
90 Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them.
91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.
92 It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood- money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.
93 Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.
94 O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: "Thou art not a believer," seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.

www.sacred-texts.com...

It clearly states that those who have fallen away from Allah,and who would have/make other believers do the same,are the enemy and therefore can be killed.Unless,that is,as verse 90 states,they seek refuge with those they have a covenant with.If they don't wage war against you,offer them peace.Verse 93 makes it clear that those who deliberately kill believers will be sent to hell forever.Believers also have to be careful in who they wage war against,and cannot do so just to seek gain.

It also says this in the Koran.

Sura 2:62
Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.



reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 05:48 PM by DantesLost
Kr0n0s


However, as far as the US goes, I think it was Islam that threw the first stone. Remember the Barbary Wars in the late 1700s to early 1800's?


Those wars were over piracy,they had nothing to do with the Islamic faith or culture.






theindependentjournal


I and most that I know do not recognize Islam as a Religion but rather a Cult of Death much like Nazism. It has and does serve it's original purpose, to this very day, for those that created it.


Have you even read the Koran,or are you guilty of the same thing as the Islamic fundamentalists;selective reading and deliberate manipulation??


In Islam you MUST send your son or daughter to die for God.


Really? Where does it say that in the Koran?


And did you know that God,in the OT,said that all non-believers should be killed.And that if any family member tried to lead you into unbelief should be killed too?

2 Chronicles 15:12-13
12 And they entered into a covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and with all their soul;

13 That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.


Deuteronomy 13:6-9
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.


This chapter also goes on to say that whole cities should be destroyed and everyone should be killed,just for worshiping other gods.


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:31 PM by Kr0n0s
Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli, although nominally governed by the Islamic Ottoman Empire, had been largely independent Muslim states since the 17th century.




This was NOT just a mere pirate issue, like the Pirates of the Caribbean.
Nations and areas along the Mediterranean, were part of the Ottoman Empire and were known as the Barbary Nations and WERE Muslim states and the crimes WERE perpetrated by Muslim Militaries, they terrorized US and other merchant ships, demanding money from them for safe passage to and from the Atlantic.
When the price finally became to high the US tried to negotiate with these Nations, here was their ambassadors reply.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied: It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once. [2] [3]


The newly formed US navy was still weak from its war with England and decided that the benefits would outweigh the costs, for the time being and so for the next 15 or so years, paid the "tribute" to these Nations.

On Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, Yussif Karamanli, the Pasha (or Bashaw) of Tripoli, demanded $225,000 from the new administration. (In 1800, Federal revenues totaled a little over $10 million.) Putting his long-held beliefs into practice, Jefferson refused the demand. Consequently, in May 1801, the Pasha declared war on the United States, not through any formal written documents but by cutting down the flagstaff in front of the U.S. Consulate. Morocco, Algiers, and Tunis soon followed their ally in Tripoli. In response, Jefferson sent a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress. Although Congress never voted on a formal declaration of war, they did authorize the President to instruct the commanders of armed vessels of the United States to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli "and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify." Enterprise capturing Tripoli The frigate USS Enterprise defeated the 14-gun Tripolitan corsair Tripoli after a fierce but one-sided battle on August 1, 1801.


Wiki

So, after a series of battles, on the sea and on the land, this is where the "To the shores of Tripoli" line in the Marine Corpse Hymn comes from, the terrorism was defeated, giving safe and free passage to our and most others trade vessels.
Call it piracy all you want but to me its state sponsored terrorism, just like the Somali "Pirates" in the Gulf of Aden.




[edit on 12/19/2008 by Kr0n0s]


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 07:02 PM by DantesLost
reply to post by Kr0n0s



Nations and areas along the Mediterranean, were part of the Ottoman Empire and were known as the Barbary Nations, they terrorized US and other merchant ships, demanding money from them for safe passage to and from the Atlantic.


Did you even read what you quoted?
These countries had been independent from the Ottoman Empire since the 17th century.The wars did not take place until the 19th century.And they weren't nations,they were states.



So, after a series of battles, on the sea and on the land, this is where the "To the shores of Tripoli" line in the Marine Corpse Hymn comes from, the terrorism was defeated, giving safe and free passage to our and most others trade vessels.


No it wasn't.There was a 2nd Barbary war in 1815 and the UK and the Netherlands,as well as the US,fought against the pirates.This war still did not stop them,they continued to raid on a smaller scale until 1830 when the French conquered Algiers.It was that which led to their downfall.


Call it piracy all you want but to me its state sponsored terrorism


Not it wasn't.It was men who wanted to live the high life by stealing from others.They kept their plunder,they didn't pass it on to the ruler of the Ottoman Empire because he did not rule over them.The fact that they were Muslim should not be an issue.They were thieves and murderers who did everything for themselves,not for the glory of Allah.

You are letting your modern view of Muslims distort the past.


[edit on 19-12-2008 by DantesLost]


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 07:22 PM by Kr0n0s
reply to post by DantesLost




Not it wasn't.It was men who wanted to live the high life by stealing from others.They kept their plunder,they didn't pass it on to the ruler of the Ottoman Empire because he did not rule over them.The fact that they were Muslim should not be an issue.They were thieves and murderers who did everything for themselves,not for the glory of Allah.


So thats why the US negotiated with the ambassadors and govts of these countries for payment amounts huh?

Oh im sure the pirates got a cut but they took their orders from the muslem nations that sponsored these "tributes"
Funny how two people can interpret the same article so completely different but w/e
Anyway, i got too far OT, again, magics gonna get pissed lol


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 08:04 PM by XXXN3O
reply to post by angel of lightangelo


There are a lot of people who just simply hate other races etc because of things they hear of them doing.

I just do not agree with the whole tarring everyone with the same brush.

A lot of people jump on the bandwagon without ever questioning or trying to understand the why.

I fear that this thread will become racist because of the facts that are being stated.

Yes some facts but there are always opposing facts and that is just going to make it go bang.

Just because someone thinks they are correct does not mean that they make the other wrong if you get me.

Exactly the same does and can apply to what I said above and admittedly in frustration at what I see of course.

Im not going to lie but can others say the same thing????

As for the blindness I am talking about something that people should understand if they know who we are which might not make sense to you but I think it does. (human beings)

Ok maybe I should say this topic should be watched as it could turn fast is all.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by XXXN3O]


reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 08:13 PM by angel of lightangelo
Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by angel of lightangelo


There are a lot of people who just simply hate other races etc because of things they hear of them doing.

I just do not agree with the whole tarring everyone with the same brush.


So, again. I must ask you. What race are Muslims?

and before you answer...count to ten, take a deep breath. Relax.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]
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