“You see,” my colleague went on, “one doesn't see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to “go out of your way to make trouble.” Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

“Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, “everyone is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, “It's not so bad” or “You're seeing things” or “You're an alarmist.”

“And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

“But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to – to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.


“But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes.

A Melbourne private intelligence firm specialising in “open-source intelligence” has been engaged by Victoria Police, the Australian Federal Police and the federal Attorney-General's Department to monitor and report on the protest movements' use of the internet.

The monitoring, which has been secretly conducted for at least five years, includes exploring websites, online chat rooms, social networking sites, email lists and bulletin boards to gather information on planned demonstrations and other activities. Many of those monitored have not broken any laws, but it is believed information about their participation in online activities is conveyed to government agencies that also deal with terrorism.

Originally posted by Harassment101
reply to post by pteridine

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I think the problem is that bounds are already being overstepped. I think it's happening so gradually that people don't see it. I think people are waiting for someone else to tell them when things have gotten too bad, and as pointed out, this does not happen. It all comes gradually.

Originally posted by antar

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
reply to post by antar

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That's my point, your 'involved'. In other words you put your own spin on this because you fear for personal retaliation if you dont go along with the injustice this stands for. You have no clue what this is all about, you are not 'in' the military.

Sorry, but you are wrong. I will not disclose any further private information on myself, my involvement, my identity, my age, my whatever. I am very much "in" the military, and so yes, I do know what this is about. I am not protecting anyone, nor am I debunking. I am merely disgusted at the sheer lack of thoughtful insight here.

That's rich Grandpa, I mean bars, clubs, dance halls, not iron bars.

Thank you, but I'm the one laughing! And if you wanted a different interpretation of your use of "bars", you should have cleared it up yourself, but my interpretation matched your ignorance. And since you don't live here, (I do), I can tell you that most Marines drive "down the hill" to Palm Springs, and come back drunk on the very road where the check points are being conducted.

I sleep very well thank you very much. Yet I sleep with a clear conscience. I do not claim to be in the know and that helps tremendously, you should try it.

I'm the one who lives here. And yes, in this case, I AM in the know. You are not. The sheer ignorance and paranoia on this thread is really alarming.

There you go again, creating those little subtle barriers between you and me, why would you say 'us' coming into 'your' home? I doubt you'll be called up on this one, not the future which this action could be heading 'us' towards. No amount of past service will help, this is an all new playing field.

You assume way too much! There are no barriers at all, except knuckleheads like you who think the military are out to get them. "I" didn't create the "you against us", this thread did! I seem to be one of the few sane folks here who are trying to fizzle out the insanity here.

So you are saying that they are not only learning from the CHP how to identify a Military drunk on public roads verses the regular folk, but that this is a special bonding for the Military and CHPS?

Read the article, Einstein. You obviously haven't done that yet.

OK so how many brain damaged, limbless, homeless and down and out Marines have you taken in lately?

How many times have you seen the MP's hanging out in towns on a Friday night during the Holidays watching for their own? Oh other than that one episode of Andy Griffith when Gomer Pile goes into town on a date and gets in trouble? (That was a good one)

Again, you assume far too much. We, "I", look out for and take care of our own in far more ways than you just listed, and many of my dear friends and relatives are those that you very disrespectfully described as being brain damaged, limbless, etc. And as far as I know, Gomer Pile, USMC, isn't in the reruns, but it seems you watched it more than I did. While you were watching a comedy on TV about the military, I was living it.

EXCUSE ME??? You stand corrected. You Sir are the only one claiming to loath here.

I loath no one, but I do loath ignorance.

When that day comes I have plenty of brothers, sons and nephews that will be fighting right along side them. AND FYI, I would have their back in a heartbeat. I have a hell of a lot of love for my country and that is genetic and part and parcel for my heritage in this Country.

Well, if the military is out infringing on everyone's rights, why would you be serving along side them?? Do you see the irrationality of your post now? We both love our country.

Originally posted by emeraldzeus
reply to post by questioningall

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It never ceases to amaze me that folks that don't even LIVE here are spinning this out of control. There is another thread about this whole issue in which I cleared this up already.

First of all, there are a LOT of liberals in these parts....no matter what "we" do, they will find fault, period....good, bad, or indifferent, makes no difference. This is one of those instances, and the fact that there was a report about it in the media, shows me just how little folks respect the very people who bring business to their cities. So let me clear it up AGAIN....

A new General came aboard not too long ago. In the change-over, he was angered by how many deaths occur on Highway 62, which is the VERY long, straight, stretch of road that goes through several cities down to Palm Springs. Marines are constantly driving this road. It is a VERY DEADLY ROAD!!! I personally have witnessed several fatalities since living here, and have even lost a friend on this road. The numbers are staggering. So, the General and base officials have been meeting with city officials of Yucca Valley, to team up with a plan to crack down on drunk and reckless driving. I cannot find an MP3 clip of what I heard just last week, but in the words of the General to the city council:

"You police your dummies, and I'll take care of mine."

Very simply put, the General is being a darn good "father" to a bunch of irresponsible military personnel, in order to save their lives and the lives of others. HOWEVER, innocent military personnel are also losing their lives because of reckless civilians. This is a joint effort to pump up awareness on a road which these cities have pretty much let go to hell. I for one, am GLAD to see this!!! THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY HERE!!

I have never seen a more whiny, lazy, uninformed group of individuals as I have seen living here. I am disgusted over the local radio stations spinning this and everything else out of proportion, without ever bothering to get the facts....isn't it just like the media to do so? Z-107.7 is known for this, and most military members have their own nick-name for a certain DJ there who ALSO sits on the 29 Palms city council...a little bit of a conflict of interest, wouldn't you say? He's nothing short of an ignorant jack-*ss who creates discord every chance he gets, and If I were a betting person, I'd say this bit of info most likely came directly from him.

When the military arrests a civilian and hauls them off, THEN we'll have problems!!! But let's not forget that our men and women also know the law, and I would bet that NONE of them would go against it to accomplish what's being implied here. All of you who sit comfortably at your computers, without the faintest idea of what is going on less than a mile away from my home, are enjoying the right to join the ranks of complete idiots who do nothing but complain and make trouble every time they turn around. It's a free country, do as you will....but at least use common sense and get your facts first. Try looking up how many deaths have occurred on this road over the years. I might actually start to make sense.

I'm part of the military family, and I'm HERE...what does that tell you? We're not stupid, and we're not the enemy....please keep that in mind! It's so easy to stereotype people you don't know as being the "big, bad, enemy" out to take your rights away from you....they are OUR rights as well. We protect them, remember?? Not everything is bad, but if you choose to find bad in everything, then you probably will, and there will be enough fools around to join you.

Originally posted by hotrodturbo7
reply to post by jd140

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Firefighters generally won't be arresting you.

Policing the populace is generally a touchy subject these days anyhow.

Every cop is seen as someone who is waiting for an excuse to taser you till your body hair fries and you are sterile and or dead.

This is the perception many people have, that of fear of their public servants.

MP's are that much more intimidating, the guys I have dealt with are usually sharp, well built, and "fit the profile" (power tripping, egotistical).

Notice I am quoting my experience, before I get flamed by the puny, submissive, sloppy MP who may be offended by my stereotype.

With the way he government has been openly defying the public it supposedly serves, I believe we have every right to worry when military personnel operate "off the reservation".

If they can't figure out how to profile/handle a DUI stop without watching a civ cop with 10 % of their funding, maybe we all need to get on a bus and go audit what the hell they are learning at AIT.

And as far as the General "policing his own", If his marines are off the res and DUI, then they are subject to civilian law and he can have them back when we are done with them.




[edit on 24-12-2008 by hotrodturbo7]