Gay Man for Navy Secretary? , page 4

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reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 12:37 AM by Alxandro

reply to post by xmotex

I understand what you are saying but the entire world has been pussified considerably since the time of Alexander the Great.
It's all relative because he would probably be considered a total brute even by today's standards.

I was watching some show just a few weeks ago on that Green TV Channel and that Science Guy dude was pointing out how we are all turning into females because of all the sun block that's being flushed into the environent.
Can't remember the name of the culprit chemical, but if it's affecting fish, it's probably affecting Man too.

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 12:58 AM by sos37

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by sos37

Well, sos37...um, as long as YOU leave your bigotry at the door, when you come into work, is that OK too???

Bigotry??? Are you kidding? It is no more appropriate to try and further promoting the gay rights agenda from a post on the presidential staff than it is right to further one's agenda in promoting the Hair Club for Men on that same post. Both are personal agenda's and have absolutely nothing to do with the duties of serving the cabinet position that the man was picked for.

If you believe it's all well and good to spend taxpayer money, which ultimately funds these positions, on frivolous acts like an agenda that has nothing to do with the job description, then by all means, defend your statement further and you also defend pork barrel spending, sir. Pure, waste!

[edit on 20-12-2008 by sos37]

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 01:17 AM by pluckynoonez

I do not know if anyone posted this before, but it is most obvious in this circumstance, if the Naval Officer in question is, indeed, gay:

www.youtube.com...

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 01:34 AM by xmotex

Hmm, what impresses me most is that they got access to a Knox-Class ASW frigate, USS Reasoner, to make that video.

And Alexandro, as I said, effeminacy != homosexuality.

I've known some very effeminate guys who were totally, enthusiastically heterosexual.

And the stereotype we have in this culture regarding homosexuality is not universal. In many Asian & Middle Eastern cultures, what we would consider "a homosexual" is just as likely to be seen as the "he-man woman hater" type who is just "too macho to be interested in women"

Witness Yukio Mishiima, or the homosexual traditions of the Pushtun warrior class in Kandahar, Afghanistan.

I believe their saying is "women are for bearing children, young men are for love"

And let's not forget the Sacred Band of Thebes.

What constitutes "masculinity" varies a lot, culture to culture.

A lot more than Westerners typically like to admit

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 03:47 AM by cruzion

reply to post by Alxandro

Estrogen?
I for one am glad the alpha males are dissapearing.
They can be a huge pain in the hiney.

reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 12:07 AM by Alxandro

Originally posted by xmotex
I've known some very effeminate guys who were totally, enthusiastically heterosexual.

How well did you know these people?

And the stereotype we have in this culture regarding homosexuality is not universal. In many Asian & Middle Eastern cultures, what we would consider "a homosexual" is just as likely to be seen as the "he-man woman hater" type who is just "too macho to be interested in women"

Witness Yukio Mishiima, or the homosexual traditions of the Pushtun warrior class in Kandahar, Afghanistan.

I believe their saying is "women are for bearing children, young men are for love"

What constitutes "masculinity" varies a lot, culture to culture.

Maybe so, but in this culture homosexuality is exactly what it means, the love of the same sex.
Is it really love when you bang this person one day and another the next just for the sake of banging the same sex?
Once we start borrowing and adopting other cultures we've lost it.

The bit about being "too macho to be interested in women" can equate to Texas High School Football, but football is seasonal, even in Texas.

The bit about about "women are for bearing children, young men are for love" is full blown pedophilia and down right sick.
Geez, it's no wonder them people are so angry and are always blowing themeselves up. The last thing we want is for our military to be forced to choose between fat young boys or clean old men.

The main thing is to stay focused especially when it comes to the miltary. The last thing we need is for our armed forces to make a fashion statement, walk the cat walk and be put in overpriced, super expensive, designer uniforms emblazoned with fancy-smancy artsy logos.

There is a time and place for everything, just not when it comes to our military.

reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 12:16 AM by The Bald Champion

reply to post by Alxandro

Like I've said before I know a few gay folks who could bash over most anybody.

I spared a gay boxer who was a beast of nature.
Nothing designer about him, he could probably kill you ( if your not a seasoned fighter )
in under two minutes.

I wonder,,, and be honest,,, how many nances have you known in your life?

Because it sounds like you hold a concept that is hardly realistic...
Like I said before, who you do does not determine your ability to kill or take orders.

reply posted on 21-12-2008 @ 12:23 AM by The Bald Champion

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by sos37

Well, sos37...um, as long as YOU leave your bigotry at the door, when you come into work, is that OK too???

Bigotry??? Are you kidding? It is no more appropriate to try and further promoting the gay rights agenda from a post on the presidential staff than it is right to further one's agenda in promoting the Hair Club for Men on that same post. Both are personal agenda's and have absolutely nothing to do with the duties of serving the cabinet position that the man was picked for.

If you believe it's all well and good to spend taxpayer money, which ultimately funds these positions, on frivolous acts like an agenda that has nothing to do with the job description, then by all means, defend your statement further and you also defend pork barrel spending, sir. Pure, waste!

[edit on 20-12-2008 by sos37]

Maybe the fellow is the best fit for the position??? Maybe it is OBAMA'S choice - like - "so what"?TM. BUSH/DICK

Anyhow if you are squirming this hard now...

HEY, on another note, I had to go through it for eight years. ITS gonna suck for you...

reply posted on 22-12-2008 @ 12:51 AM by weedwhacker

reply to post by Alxandro

OK, Alxandro.....

Let's put this into perspective.....

About one-half of all marriages fail....well, those men and women have that right, correct??? It gets very sad when children are involved....sometimes that man and that woman make a baby, or two,, or five, whatever....together, sometimes they bring in children from MULTIPLE parents....this, ALL FROM STARIGHT PEOPLE who screw up kid's lives, just because one man can't keep his (Hoo-Haw) zipped up, and some woman, same problem......

Look....if two irresponsible straight people get drunk, and bump uglies....and the woman gets pregnant......and she barely (no pun) knows the man, what is she supposed to do?? This woman, who might likely not even know the man, nor even his phone number....it might have been a one-night-stand, after all....and now, she's pregnant. Well, the consensus seems to be, from Society..."Suck it up, take your lumps...it's YOUR FAULT!!!" See, it's as if it's the woman's fault, and SHE should suffer the consequences....

THIS is tantamount....maybe not the correct analagy, but pretty close to slavery....harsh term, I know. Better word to use is 'patriarchy'.....this is why there were 'Suffragettes' in the early 20th century, this is why the concept of 'equal rights' resonates even now, in the early 21st century.

Back to my paragraph above....even TODAY...a MAN would be believed first.....it is a built-in bias, it's not because we're evil, it's because we've been conditioned, by much of the media....not all of it, of course, but enough....

Think about it --- I'm in my fifties....I grew up on certain films that, along with my Parent's views, helped to shape my early views. If you are reading this, and are in your forties, then you'll have a different perspective. And so on if in your thirties, or twenties.....

So, IF you are in your Twenties, and reading this.....YOU will be running the World when I am old and gray (If I live that long) so....PLEASE come challenge me to the latest computer game!! Or, if computers are gone, just a nice game of chess....

reply posted on 22-12-2008 @ 09:17 AM by Alxandro

Originally posted by weedwhacker

....even TODAY...a MAN would be believed first.....it is a built-in bias, it's not because we're evil, it's because we've been conditioned, by much of the media....not all of it, of course, but enough....

I disagree about Man being believed first.
Sounds like you probably have never gone through a nasty divorce where the Mrs takes more than HALF.
Luckily, I haven't either but I know many Men who have gone through this.
The court almost always sympathizes with the Woman first and forces the guy to pay out big time.
They say it's for child support but in many cases the kid(s) end(s) up moving in with the Dad.
Still the payout continues and in many cases, what ever the Man pays out is usually to support the new boyfriend.

reply posted on 22-12-2008 @ 10:00 AM by Alxandro

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

Like I've said before I know a few gay folks who could bash over most anybody.

I spared a gay boxer who was a beast of nature.
Nothing designer about him, he could probably kill you ( if your not a seasoned fighter )
in under two minutes.

I wonder,,, and be honest,,, how many nances have you known in your life?

Maybe that's the type the other person described as being too macho even for women. Pretty scary.

To be honest, all the ones I've known have been of the "flaming" variety.
My girlfriend loves-s-s to shop, and I usually tag along, so the people that wait on her like laying on the over-acting bit a little thick.

I've also met some people you would probably consider "monsters". These people have given me weird vibes so maybe they were gay.
They were at least questionable, but certainly not "openly gay".

It's all in the vibes, kinda like a dog will sense someone that may have good/bad intentions. I am usually pretty good at picking up these vibes from all people I meet in general, so I guess I kinda have a certain level of "gay-dar" abilities too.

... who you do does not determine your ability to kill or take orders.

I agree with what you say, but if I may add:
It's not who you do that will determine your ability to kill/take orders, but it certainly may be who does you that might.

Our military should be pitching, not catching.
...on offense, and not on defense.

reply posted on 24-12-2008 @ 11:05 AM by SpacePunk

reply to post by Alxandro

It just begs the same old jokes...

Why are there Marines on all Navy ships? Because sheep would be too obvious.

reply posted on 24-12-2008 @ 01:07 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by SpacePunk

In the 'spirit' of the Season, and since we're telling jokes....(I can't resist this one...)

A Navy man and a Marine are in the Men's Room, urinating. The Navy finishes first, and is washing his hands as the Marine is walking past the sink, and about to exit. Navy calls out, "Hey! Didn't the Marines teach you to wash your hands?!"

The Marine replies, "We were taught not to p**s on ourselves."

OK, OK, OK! Mea culpa, I stretched the rules a bit, regarding the T&C...but it was an irresistable opportunity to include that joke!

What this joke points out is an incredible 'rivalry' that exists, between the branches of the US Military....I have seen this repeatedly, during my years of being a 'civilian' airline pilot, and hearing the tales told of inter-service enmity by the ex-military people I have flown with.

Perhaps 'enmity' was too harsh --- I'd better describe it as a form of 'pride' in each Branch, with some good-natured 'ribbing' thrown into the mix.

I think it is no small co-incidence that the 'TopGun' schools are run by Navy...(AND, this in NO WAY in intended to impugn the skills of Army or Marine aviators)...ALL are skilled, in their duties....NAVY just managed (probably during a certain Adminstration's Cabinet) to achieve dominance.

I'll modify that last paragraph --- I believe that people I worked with were referring to PAST experiences....the NAVY and the Marines are likely better co-ordinated today, than in the past....and, the ARMY, they have aviators too!!! Essential, actuaully.

OK, that was some exposition to what I AM about to say....SO WHAT!! if a possible appointment to be the Secretary of the Navy is Gay?!

So what? So, what if the same possible appointee were a woman? Would THAT have generated an entire thread, here on ATS? It's about the qualifications, people! NOT the sexuality....if you're worried about 'sexuality' then consider the case of Sen. Larry Craig. I'd rather see an honest person in high office, than a denier.....

reply posted on 28-12-2008 @ 03:45 PM by seagull

If the man lives and breathes the United States Navy, the rank and file enlisted and officer corp aren't going to give a tinkers damn... The bottom line as long as he cares about them, that's all they're going to care about.

reply posted on 28-12-2008 @ 09:34 PM by weedwhacker

Here's a thoughtful question, for those who are visiting/viewing this thread:

As 'SeaGull' intimated, what the heck does the sexual orientation matter if the individual can do a good job?

You see, there are many, many Gay people, all around you, at any given time. There is no single stereotype that you can apply, because if you try, you will fail.

Airline Pilots, Lawyers, Doctors, Nurses, Utility Workers, CPAs, Bankers....ya see? Stereotypes just don't work....I know, because I was in one of those professions, and I did NOT bring my sexuality to my profession, just as, I assume, most heterosexuals don't bring THEIR sexuality into their job (except, maybe, for the 'office wolf', a dying breed).

But, back on subject...a Cabinet member in the new Admistration who actually DOES something? AND stands up for something? Well, that will be a refreshing change...his or her sexuality is NOT an issue!!!

reply posted on 1-1-2009 @ 02:14 PM by slicobacon

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by SpacePunk

I think it is no small co-incidence that the 'TopGun' schools are run by Navy...(AND, this in NO WAY in intended to impugn the skills of Army or Marine aviators)...ALL are skilled, in their duties....NAVY just managed (probably during a certain Adminstration's Cabinet) to achieve dominance.

The Navy runs the Top Gun school because it is a Navy school, its slang for the The United States Navy Fighter Weapons School. The Air Force has a similar school called Red Flag and the Marine Corps' is called WTI.
The Army does not have "Aviators" they, along with the Air Force have "pilots". The Navy does not have "dominance" they serve a different mission than the other branches. Keep in mind Marine Corps pilots are Infantrymen first.

reply posted on 2-1-2009 @ 11:06 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by slicobacon

Hello, SBacon....

No where, no how did I intend to dismiss the abilities of any of the pilots who fly in the various Services, be they Air Force, Army, Navy or Marine.

I guess I just tried to explain to the lay audience that there is a certain 'rivalry' that exists, between the Branches of the military, that's all.

My feeling is that any member of a particular 'branch' of the military will tend to feel that his/her 'branch' is the BEST!!!

Well, while that sort of comraderie is to be applauded, the inter-branch 'rivalry' is a disgrace!

AND, this same sort of prejudice, as used to be spent on each other, and now is directed at the mere 'possibility' of {GASP} !!! a Gay man as Secretary of the Navy?!???

Well...hang onto your pre-conceived notions....you should know that MANY of the Airline Pilots you trust you lives to, and the Doctors who operate on you and the Dentists who save your teeth, just to name a few professionals you might come into contact with, just happen to be Gay!

Surprised? Well, only narrow-minded boobs who haven't been able to see the REAL WORLD through their 'idiot glasses' will be surprised to find out that Gay men and women provide essential services, day in and day out...and it's only because of the biases that exist, even today, that many are loathe to come forth....

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