Originally posted by pluckynoonez
reply to post by guinnessford

---

All you need to know is this: the terrorists hate us for our freedoms. It is now more important than ever that we imprison and torture people who are "terrorists" to keep us safe.

OK. Let´s try to keep an objective view and mention only known facts.
They are as follows.

Four jetliners, two from American Airlines and two from United Airlines were hijacked on Sep. 11 2001. These jetliners all crashed killing all their ocupants.

F.B.I. Counsel: No Attempt Made By F.B.I. To Formally Indentify 9/11 Plane Wreckage
Aidan Monaghan
Contained within a March 14, 2008 "DEFENDANT’S MOTION FOR ENLARGEMENT OF TIME TO RESPOND TO AMENDED COMPLAINT" with the Nevada District U.S. Court, concerning a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by Mr. Aidan Monaghan (Case #: 2:07-cv-01614-RCJ-GWF) to order the production of Federal Bureau of Investigation records concerning the 4 aircraft involved in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Assistant U.S. Attorney Patrick A. Rose has indicated on behalf of the FBI, that records indicating the collection and positive identification of recovered wreckage created by these federally registered aircraft, do not exist.
Defendants motion reads in part:
"Since being served with the Summons and Amended Complaint, Federal Defendant, with assistance of its attorneys, has analyzed Plaintiff’s request and conducted a search for responsive records. Federal Defendant has determined that there are no responsive records. The identities of the airplanes hijacked in the September 11 attacks was never in question, and, therefore, there were no records generated “revealing the process by which wreckage recovered by defendant, from aircraft used during the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, was positively identified by defendant . . . as belonging to said aircraft . . .” (Amend Compl. Inj. Relief #15 at 1.)"
However, this claim is directly contradicted by public comments offered by Carol Carmody, Vice-Chairman National Transportation Safety Board and Marion C. Blakey, Chairman National Transportation Safety Board, who both indicated in 2002 that FBI director Robert Mueller requested NTSB assistance with 9/11 aircraft wreckage identification and that the NTSB did perform 9/11 aircraft wreckage identification analysis.
"I ... assured FBI Director Mueller that we would assist in any way we could ... he called and said, "Could you send us some people to help find the black boxes and help identify aircraft By FAA documents identified as "Summary of Air Traffic Hijack Events", pages 4 and 13, it is indicated that American Airlines flight 11 (N334AA) and United Airlines flight 175 (N612UA) were not transmitting proper transponder identification data at the time of their respective destructions and that therefore, proper aircraft registration identification cannot have been obtained from this absent or erroneous data.

Two of them crashed in New York City one against each of the WTC towers. The third plane crashed against the Pentagon, and the fourth crashed in fields in Shanksville Pa.

UNITED 93 DATA PROVIDED BY US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SUPPORT OBSERVED EVENTS
Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain United Flight 93 Flight Data Recorder information, consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 93 Flight Data Recorder (FDR). The data provided by the NTSB contradict observed events in several significant ways:
1. The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support observations.
2. All Altitude data on the northern approach contradicts witnesses published by the New York Times.
3. Witness observations of approach path contradict northern approach as described by Popular Mechanics and the US Govt. Several witnesses observed the aircraft approaching from southeast over Indian Lake and from the south prior to witnessing explosion. Parts found in New Baltimore, 8 miles southeast of crater is a direct contradiction to the northern approach claimed by the US Govt.
4. Environmental Protection Agency reports no soil contamination of jet fuel after testing 5,000-6,000 yards of earth including 3 ground wells. Smoke plume photographed by a witness does not suggest a jet fuel rich explosion.
5. Impact angle according to Flight Data Recorder does not support an almost vertical impact as the govt story and crater suggests

The Lack of Foundation Damage at the Pentagon is Irreconcilable with the Official Reports and Data
Craig Ranke, Rob Balsamo

03/15/08 - The lack of foundation damage at the Pentagon is irreconcilable with the official reports and is strong physical evidence contradicting the 9/11 official story.

The ASCE Building Performance Report has meticulously documented the damage to the building and has come to the conclusion that all damage from the alleged plane impact was limited to the bottom two floors, but primarily below the 2nd floor slab so that 90 tons of jumbo jet would have slid on it's belly across the 1st floor slab all the way through the C-ring.

The physical evidence at the Pentagon is anomalous on many levels and irreconcilable with the official reports. The DoD itself called the damage "counter-intuitive". The animation released by Purdue University actually omits the engines from the airframe and does not continue vertical stabilizer path, most likey due to the fact they cannot account for the lack of damage observed at the pentagon from these heavy airframe structures.

Questions like this are why so many who research 9/11 initially had issues with the Pentagon attack. The anomalous damage and lack of parts recovered -- which were never positively identified as having come from American Airlines Flight 77, nor will government agencies release such information via FOIA, giving unlawful excuse to withhold this information -- is just as observably questionable as the collapse of WTC 7.

Some researchers have abandoned the Pentagon attack primarily due to the mainstream media published eyewitness accounts of a plane. However, when analyzed, many of the witness accounts vary from what Mainstream Media has published. Witness list has been analyzed here.

When considering the eyewitness reports and on location research of Citizen Investigation Team and the Flight Data Recorder analysis by Pilots for 9/11 Truth, there can be no other conclusion than that both sets of data are irreconcilable with the physical damage to the building. Government agencies refuse to comment, mainstream (and some alternative media) refuse to report it.

This last one was as a result of the passergers getting organized and attacking the hijackers because they found out through plane-phones what had happened at NYC and Washington and decided not to let the terrorists use them as another weapon to crash against some building.
It is believed that the target of this last plane was either the White House or the Capitol Building in D.C.
From the hijacked airplanes there were numerous phone calls, most of them made from plane-phones and a few made from cell phones. From this calls, a lot of information was inmediately available to authorities as far as who the hijackers were

BREAKING 9/11 NEWS: FBI Says Barbara Olsen Did Not Call Ted Olsen. Bush Solicitor General LIED !!

Nationally syndicated talk show host Charles Goyette uncovered blockbuster information in his drive-time interview with author David Ray Griffin.


A center piece of the increasingly apparent BULLSH*T story our government and corporate media have fed us for six long years was a complete fabrication!
We were fed a lie by Ted Olsen who served as Solictor General for the Bush Administration, when on 9/11 he held a press conference to tell America and the world that his dead wife had called him before her demise from the jet she was on that had just been hijacked.


Personally, I thought it was odd at the time that a man would decide to hold a press conference minutes after hearing of his own wife’s death, when it happened on 9/11. If my own wife had just died, the last thing I’d want to do would be to talk to anyone, let alone call a press conference. It didn’t “smell” right.


Now we know why it didn’t smell right. It was a lie. The FBI has reported that no such call between Barbara Olsen and Ted Olsen ever took place on 9/11/2001.


It was part of the rapidly unraveling scam that is the official story of 9/11.


In fact, Griffin went on to explain that there is zero evidence that any hijackers had commandeer

[edit on 12/20/2008 by cashlink]

But, as Griffin rightly points out, in this interview, there is no “EVIDENCE” of their existence.


Which also reveals that mis-information shill, Popular Mechanics, in their 9/11 interview on the Charles Goyette Show months ago, lied when they told us there was DNA evidence of the so-called Muslim hijackers. LIES, all lies.


Find links to the entire interviews of February 19, 2008, at:
www.911blogger.com...

When will corporate media stop their participation in a criminal cover up? If the former Solicitor General lying to America by creating a complete fabrication he spread around the world through corporate media, is not a story worthy of CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS, Democracy Now, The Nation, Rolling Stone, PBS, NPR, and all the other fourth estate . . . then they have no right to refer to themselves as media.

Which were their seats for instance, and from this information authorities were able to determine the possible identities of some of the hijackers. It is believed that some of them were traveling under different names from their real ones, but some are believed to have been using their real names.
From one of the hijacked airplanes one of the terrorists actually made an anouncement which he aparently intended to give to the passengers on an active air traffic frequency and so traffic controllers were able to hear the terrorist saying something like: "we have several aircraft, and there is a bomb on board, we are returning to the airport, don´t move, and do as you are told, and everything will be allright". This transmition was actually made public after a few days of the hijackings.

There was a great amount of confussion during the hijackings and the crashes and authorities got to the point of believing there were more hijacked flights, at a certain point the FAA ordered a TOTAL GROUND STOP. All flights that had not taken off got canceled and all flights that were in the air were ordered to LAND AT THE NEAREST AIRPORT. Within a few hours all civilian aviation had come to a stand still and it remained grounded for several days.

In NYC the crashes of the planes against the buildings, damaged these greatly in their structure. Both planes hit the towers at very high speed and loaded with a lot of fuel, which created a unique situation that was not considered in the design.

The World Trade Center Building Designers: Pre-9/11 claims strongly implicate that the Towers should have remained standing on 9/11
By Arabesque
The World Trade Center (WTC) Towers[1] were the largest buildings ever conceived in 1960.[2] This meant that there was a considerable amount of planning:
“The structural analysis carried out by the firm of Worthington, Skilling, Helle & Jackson is the most complete and detailed of any ever made for any building structure. The preliminary calculations alone cover 1, 200 pages and involve over 100 detailed drawings… The building as designed is sixteen times stiffer than a conventional structure. The design concept is so sound that the structural engineer has been able to be ultra-conservative in his design without adversely affecting the economics of the structure.”[3]
In July of 1971, the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) presented a national award judging the WTC Towers to be “the engineering project that demonstrates the greatest engineering skills and represents the greatest contribution to engineering progress and mankind.”[4]
Like many modern structures and buildings, the WTC Towers were over-designed to withstand weight distribution in the event of structural damage. According to calculations made by the engineers who helped with the design of the Twin Towers, “all the columns on one side of a Tower could be cut, as well as the two corners and some of the columns on each adjacent side, and the building would still be strong enough to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind.”[5] As well, “Live loads on these columns can be increased more than 2,000% before failure occurs.”[6]
In the planning of the buildings the designers considered potential attacks, and the WTC

In spite of this the buildings didn´t topple or fail at that instant, but the fire and the damage to them was such, that after some time, aproximately 1 hr. in one case an 2 hrs. in the other, there was a failure in the structure of each tower in the area were the plane had hit, and the portion of the building above that area fell on the lower portion, which was unable to support it. Due to the unique design of these towers, they collapsed after this event, the outer structure of the buildings coming appart as the higher portion of building was falling on the lower section. As the mass falling grew, it continued to destroy the lower part of each tower totally disintegrating it. These events, as well as the crash of the second airplane on the tower were seen live worldwide because great coverage was taking place about the fire caused by the first plane.

This is a distance shot with Edna Cintron waving.
It is a bit over two seconds long. This is a video of Edna Cintron waving in side the impact hole in the WTC after the so call plane crash in the WTC. If the fires where sooo “hot” from the airplane crash why is this woman standing in the impact hole.

Edna Cintron the Waving Woman of 911
Sometime ago I posted an article called: 9/11 and the Twin Towers: Sudden Collapse Initiation was Impossible
In it I used the frame of a video showing a woman standing in the gaping hole made by the plane which crashed in the first Twin Tower dispelling the myth of the roaring inferno that allegedly caused the pulverisation of the Towers. This still actually came from the FEMA rapport.
The commenter stated that if this was not a photoshopped photo it would indeed cast serious doubt over the official Conspiracy theory. So I went and did some googling and
found back an assembly of the original video’s which clearly show this woman standing in the hole from different angles.

The NIST WTC 7 Report: Bush Science reaches its peak

NIST Exploring 9/11 “Blast Events” for WTC-7; New Witness Confirms ScholarsPrevious Findings

Dr. Wyndham’s Reply to NIST About Their WTC 7Final Report
Physical Evidence for the Controlled Demolition of WTC 7
1. The rapid onset of collapse indicates controlled demolition. Natural collapses begin slowly as the steel deforms (but this has never before led to collapse from office fires).
2. The symmetrical, straight-down nature of the collapse. In a natural collapse, the building would tend to topple or show asymmetries.
3. The time taken by the collapse, approximately 6.5 seconds. This is almost free-fall speed and indicates little resistance, which is incomprehensible if natural. Your theory of a slower collapse within the outer frame of the building is outrageous speculation.
4. The neat, tidy debris pile, a few stories high, with adjoining buildings essentially untouched. Such a pile is the main objective and hallmark of controlled demolition.
5. The molten metal and high temperatures observed for weeks afterwards in the debris pile. Only incendiary and explosive materials, such as thermite, thermate, and nano-thermites could produce these temperatures. Particles in the dust indicate these materials.
6. The evidence of corroded steel with sulfur found by FEMA. Again, sulfur is a product of a thermate reaction.
Eye-witness Evidence for the Controlled Demolition of WTC 7
1. The testimony of Barry Jennings. Mr. Jennings timeline is crucial and unassailable. The essentials of his story were told to Eye-Witness Channel 7 News shortly after 1 pm on 9/11/01, and later elaborated on in taped interviews. BEFORE either tower fell, he was blown back, by an explosion, from the sixth floor to the eighth floor in a stairwell in WTC 7. The sixth floor landing was destroyed. Help came twice and ran away when each tower collapsed. He was in the dark for several hours. He heard explosions from that time (before 9:58 am) until he was found and led to safety around 1 pm. At that time the lobby of WTC 7 was completely destroyed. None of this could have happened because of the tower collapses. All his eye-witness evidence points to pre-demolition blasts in WTC 7.
2. The video-taped statements of various firemen and policemen before 5:20 pm on 9/11/01 to the effect that WTC 7 was “coming down” or “about to blow up.” This pre-knowledge indicates controlled demolition.
3. The video-taped statement of a witness who overheard a “count-down” for WTC 7 on a worker’s radio.
4. The many videos showing the actual collapse of WTC 7, with various evidences of controlled demolition such as a kink in the roof, exploding charges at upper stories, and so on.
5. Audible explosions heard by eye-witnesses just before and during the collapse of WTC 7.

World Trade Center Destruction Forensics
• Videos featuring footage
• Videos with WTC destruction analysis
• Videos of television broadcasts
• Audio recordings with WTC destruction analysis
Videos Featuring Footage

During these events the crash against the Pentagon took place. That crash was an American Airlines plane. There were numerous wittnesses who were in the vicinity and many actually identified the AA logo and paint job on the aircraft.
American and United Airlines were able to stablish which flights had been hijacked almost inmediatly working toghether with the FAA, FBI, and the airphone companies because in many of the calls made from the planes the passengers or crew mentioned what flight they were on...

(more to come...)

911 Cell Phone Calls From
Planes? Not Likely

Reported Cell Phone Calls from the 9/11 Planes
Further Reflections Evoked by a Critique

by Prof. David Ray Griffin
The "Cell Phone Myth"
The central target of Kornkven’s critique is what he calls the Cell Phone Myth, which he defines in his Comment as "the idea, advocated by Griffin, that the majority of calls were made on cell phones." However, I do not believe that there were any cell phone calls from the planes.
Kornkven evidently stated his meaning more accurately in the first paragraph of his Comment, in which he said: "Despite Griffin's claims to the contrary in Chapter 17 of 9/11 Contradictions, neither the FBI nor the 9/11 [Commission] ever claimed that all, or even most, of the calls were made on cell phones." But I never said anything remotely similar to this.
With regard to the 9/11 Commission, I pointed out that its report mentioned cell phone calls, but without specifying how many such calls were allegedly made, only in relation to United Flight 93.6
With regard to the FBI, almost all of my discussion is about its 2006 report to the Moussaoui trial, at which it said that there had been only two cell phone calls from all four flights combined. With regard to the FBI’s position prior to then, I made only two comments. My first comment was a complaint that "the FBI had not discouraged the press or the 9/11 Commission from claiming that passengers had used cell phones to report the existence of hijackers on the planes."7 Although that statement said nothing about what the FBI claimed, something was at least implied by my second comment: Using the word "authorities" to refer primarily to the FBI, I spoke of "one of the chief elements in the story about 9/11 told by authorities and the press from the outset---that the presence of hijackers on the flights had been reported by means of cell phone calls from those flights."8 I clearly suggested that the FBI immediately after 9/11 was stating that hijackers were reported on cell phone calls. To say that, however, is not to say that the FBI claimed that "all, or even most, of the calls were made on cell phones."
I said so little about the 9/11 Commission and pre-2006 FBI assertions because virtually all of my discussion in the chapter was about what was reported by the press and consequently widely believed.