Evolution is Science, Creationists Delusional

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posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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First of all it is important to understand the history of life on earth in it's most simplest form -

Precambrian Era - 4600-1000 million years ago
Landmark Event:
- Origin of solar system and Earth.

Paleozoic Era - 544-245 million years ago
Landmark Event:
- Primitive marine algae flourish and the first fishes appear.

Mesozoic Era - 245 - 65 million years ago
Landmark Events:
- In 245-208 million years ago, First mammals and dinosaurs appear.
- Mass extinction of marine life, and some terrestrial life including the last dinosaurs happened between 146-65 million years ago.

Cenozoic Era - 65 million years ago - Present
Landmark Event:
- Widespread flourishing of birds, mammals, insects, and flowering plants.
- Evolution of genus Homo happened 2.5 million years ago.

The beginning of our planet:
When Earth first formed around 4.5 billion years ago a multitude of meteorites smashed into the forming planet, and the kinetic energy of these extraterrestrial rocks was converted into heat on impact. Still more heat was released by the decay of radioactive atoms. The rock composing Earth melted, and heavier elements such as iron and nickel sank to the center of the planet, where they remain molten even to today. It must have taken hundreds of millions of years for Earth to cool enough to allow water to exist as a liquid, but almost immediately after water was available as a liquid the first signs of life began to emerge.

The beginning of life:
The first organisms were Anaerobic Prokaryotes (more specifically primitive anaerobic bacteria), which means cells whose genetic material was not contained within a nucleus. These cells obtained nutrients through absorption from their environment. As these cells multiplied, they eventually used up the organic molecules produced by prebiotic chemical reactions, while carbon dioxide and water were still very abundant. What they were lacking was energetic molecules - molecules in which energy is stored in chemical bonds. Eventually, some cells evolved the ability to use the energy of sunlight to drive the synthesis of complex molecules.

Oxygenating our planet:
Water-based photosynthesis converts water and carbon dioxide to energetic molecules of sugar, releasing oxygen as a by-product. This newly emerging process on the planet Earth formed an abundance of oxygen in our atmosphere.

Aerobic Metabolism:
Oxygen reacts with organic molecules destroying them. Many of today's anaerobic bacteria perish when exposed to what is for them a deadly poison, oxygen. The accumulation of oxygen therefor exterminated many organisms and fostered the evolution of cellular mechanisms which are capable of detoxifying oxygen. Eventually this leads to the great advancement for microbes to use oxygen in metabolism.

Membrane-Enclosed Organelles:
Hordes of bacteria offered a rich food supply to any organism that could eat them. Early predators were specialized prokaryotic cells that were able to engulf whole bacteria as prey. These predators were otherwise very primitive in that they were capable of neither photosynthesis or aerobic metabolism. Around 1.7 billion years ago one of these predators gave rise to the first eukaryotic cell. The first cell to carry DNA from within the nucleus.


  1. Some Algae Became Multicellular
  2. Animal Diversity Arose in the Precambrian Era
  3. Some Plants Became Adapted to Life on Dry Land
  4. Some Animals Became Adapted to Life on Dry Land
  5. Amphibians Evolved from Lobefin Fishes
  6. Reptiles Evolved from Amphibians
  7. Reptiles Gave Rise to Both Birds and Mammals


How Humans Evolved
Humans are members of a mammal group known as primates, which includes lemurs, monkeys, and apes. The oldest primate fossils ever to be discovered are 55 million years old. Binocular vision provided early primates with accurate depth perception. Early primates had long, grasping fingers that could wrap around and hold onto tree limbs - an adaptation to tree dwelling. A large brain facilitated hand-eye coordination and complex social interactions.

The oldest hominid fossils are from Africa, dating 6 million years ago (Sahelanthropus tchadensis). This represents a split between apes and hominids. The earliest hominids could stand and walk upright. They were shorter, but had nicely developed knees that allowed the leg to straighten out fully.




  1. Several species of Australopithecus Emerged in Africa
  2. The Genus Homo Diverged (2.5Mil Years Ago)
  3. Advances in Tool Technology


Modern Humans Emerged Only 150,000 Years Ago
The fossil record shows that anatomically modern humans appeared in Africa about 150,000 years ago. The location of these fossils suggests that the first Homo Sapiens originated here.

Around 90,000 years ago Cro-Magnons appeared which had domed heads, smooth brows, and prominent chins (just like us). They were behaviorally more sophisticated than Neanderthals. Artifacts from 30,000 year old Cro-Magnon archeological sites include elegant bone flutes, graceful carved ivory sculptures, and evidence of elaborate burial ceremonies. They were also famous for their cave paintings and use of sophisticated art techniques.



Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals lived Side by Side
Cro-Magnons coexisted with Neanderthals in Europt and the Middle East for perhaps as many as 50,000 years before Neanderthals disappeared from fossil record. Some researches believe that Cro-Magnons interbred extensively with Neanderthals, thus absorbing them into the human genetic mainstream. Other researchers suggest the Cro-Magnons were simply over-ran by this superior species. While nobody is for certain, the extinction of Homo neanderthalensis leads us to believe their superior ability of Homo sapiens to exploit the available resources slowly drove Neanderthals to extinction.

Homo neanderthalensis:


Homo sapiens:


[edit on 12/19/08 by Yoda411]




posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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How do we know how old a fossil is?
Early geologists could date rock layers and their accompaning fossiles only in a relative way: Fossils found in deeper layers of rock were generally older than those found in shallower layers. With the discovery of radioactivity, it became possible to determine absolute dates, within certain limits. To determine absolute dates, scientists take advantage of their knowledge that the nuclei of radioactive elements spontaneously break down, or decay, into other elements.



Organic Molecules Can Form Spontaneously under Prebiotic Conditions

Inspired by the ideas of Oparin and Haldane, Stanley Miller and Harold Urey set out in 1953 to simulate prebiotic evolution in the laboratory. They knew that, on the basis of the chemical composition of the rocks that formed early in Earth's history, geochemists had concluded that the early atmosphere probably contained virtually no oxygen gas, but did contain other substances, including methane, ammonia, hydrogen, and water vapor. Miller and Urey simulated the oxygen-free atmosphere of early Earth by mixing these components in a flask. An electrical discharge mimicked the intense energy of early Earth's lightning storms. In this experimental microcosm, the researchers found that simple organic molecules appeared after just a few days.



[edit on 12/18/08 by Yoda411]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by Yoda411
 


ROFLMAO... Thanks for putting it out like that, when you tell people that two rocks smashing together somehow makes ONE ROCK, well they know through a lifetime of throwing rocks that IT IS IMPOSSIBLE. As well as your other fine examples or the moronic and racist theory of Favoured Races...

Seriously I am telling you the truth, I haven't seen a better post that proves the ridiculousness of the theory than this one!!!

Way to go star for you!!!


By the way in case you weren't AWARE the test tube thing with the sparks produced equal numbers of left and right amino acids and well we only use left ones... Besides taking oxygen out of the experiment because oxygen kills all the amino acids through oxidation but without it they die too, so kudos on the already debunked test tube design... You know I don't even have to debate this with evolutionists, I will just let you put your DUMB theory out and everyone can see it for what it is!!! Thanks Again

[edit on 12/18/2008 by theindependentjournal]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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I think its going to be a stretch to somehow use logic to show someone who believes in invisible deities with super powers the evidence for evolution...hitting your head against a brick wall is what it amounts to.The evidence is already out there in droves.Although it doesnt have much to do with evolution but it does with religion sam harris sums up in this short talk how the religious mind works. uk.youtube.com...

With better education and the glorious internet where people can more easily discuss things with other folks that have opposing views instead of little religious bubble communities where idiocy is reinforced on a daily basis that it becomes intelligent and truth in their eyes.


+1 more 
posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
You know I don't even have to debate this with evolutionists, I will just let you put your DUMB theory out and everyone can see it for what it is!!! Thanks Again


That's fine. I really didn't expect a creationist to come here providing legitimate evidence for their own speculations, let alone debunking scientific fact.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Good Evening... how are you all doing tonight??

I have a good article that provides some food for thought. It is definitely a good read.

www.harekrsna.com...


The fossil record contains fossils of only complete and fully-formed species. There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred. Even among evolutionists there are diametrically different interpretations and reconstructions of the fossils used to support human evolution from a supposed ape-like ancestry.

Even if evolution takes millions and millions of years, we should still be able to see some stages of its process. But, we simply don't observe any partially-evolved fish, frogs, lizards, birds, dogs, cats among us. Every species of plant and animal is complete and fully-formed.

Another problem is how could partially-evolved plant and animal species survive over millions of years when their basic organs and tissues were still in the process of evolving? How, for example, were animals breathing, eating, and reproducing if there respiratory, digestive, and reproductive organs were still evolving?


(see article for rest of story)

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[edit on 18-12-2008 by GAOTU789]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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Here is a question for the OP. I'm convinced by the scientific evidence of how the Earth was made and the evolution process, but there is something that keeps bugging me...

At what time did a separation between plants and animals happen? is there any evidence of a plant/animal hybrid? This always puzzled me so please help me understand how the difference between plants and animals came to happen.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by infolurker
There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred.


Please take a second look at the skulls of partially-evolved Homo sapiens in the OP.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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ops wrong place sorry


[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


I do not intend to prove there is no God. I intend to prove evolution.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by Yoda411
 


Seriously I am telling you the truth, I haven't seen a better post that proves the ridiculousness of the theory than this one!!!


Did you read a different post than me?



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:54 PM
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Got anything besides a human skull (to many of those faked) news.bbc.co.uk...

.... millions and millions or billions of years of evolution... where are the 1/2 formed ones.. not this resembles this so it must be evolution but an actual complete transformation?

I could throw a bunch of different cat skulls and skeletons (lions, tigers, panthers, housecats, pumas, bobcats) next to each other and claim.. look, evolution and it would line up better than the drastic changes and "leaps of faith" we have to go with to completely believe evolution..... Sorry, that's the truth, either way you have to put faith in it as there isn't concrete proof.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by infolurker
Got anything besides a human skull





Originally posted by infolurker
I could throw a bunch of different cat skulls and skeletons (lions, tigers, panthers, housecats, pumas, bobcats) next to each other and claim.. look, evolution and it would line up better than the drastic changes and "leaps of faith" we have to go with to completely believe evolution..... Sorry, that's the truth, either way you have to put faith in it as there isn't concrete proof.


Are you looking for a half-lizard half-mammal? The whole principal behind evolution is that these species developed along their own evolutionary tree. A lizard didn't just give birth to a hairy mammal one day.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by Yoda411
 


Two common arguments among creationists(christians) are that
A) Satan created the fossils to deceive us, making them appear to be aged
B) The timeline in the bible is not to be taken literally, and that God allowed for evolution to occur. In this case evolution would support creationism. According to Genesis God created all forms of life in the same order that evolution describes.

My objective here is not to prove creationism, but to demonstrate that you can't disprove creationism and that you are the delusional one if you think you can. I apologize for the circular argument but it is neccessary.

Creationism is based on faith, and no amount of scientific observation can prove it to be false.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by centrifugal
reply to post by Yoda411
 


Two common arguments among creationists(christians) are that
A) Satan created the fossils to deceive us, making them appear to be aged
B) The timeline in the bible is not to be taken literally, and that God allowed for evolution to occur. In this case evolution would support creationism. According to Genesis God created all forms of life in the same order that evolution describes.

My objective here is not to prove creationism, but to demonstrate that you can't disprove creationism and that you are the delusional one if you think you can. I apologize for the circular argument but it is neccessary.

Creationism is based on faith, and no amount of scientific observation can prove it to be false.


That's OK, because I am here to prove that creationists are delusional.

A.) Satan is an easy cop-out for anything Christian's don't want to hear.
B.) It is also a complete cop-out to say that God allowed for Evolution. This not only is not contradictory to my argument, it actually supports it.

Is faith of a false truth delusion?



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 





The fossil record contains fossils of only complete and fully-formed species. There are no fossils of partially-evolved species to indicate that a gradual process of evolution ever occurred.


You won't find an animal in the fossil record that isn't complete. Evolution is a process of slight variation in complete animals over massive spans of time that eventually produces new species. Asking for a "half-man half-ape" is as ludicrous as asking to find the border between L.A. and California. Humans ARE a great ape species.

Further, if you're asking for fossils showing functional organs that will eventually be used for a different purpose or will be further sophisticated, there's plenty of fossils for whales showing their progression from land animals to marine only.

Even further beyond this, look to Tiktallic - which is basically a quadraped fish. This is a beautiful example of Evolutionary theory making prediction which have been validated in the field. Palentologists knew about what time this creature would have emerged (they knew the rock layer to look in) and what it's environment would have had to have been, and with this knowledge they looked in just these areas and in just that rock layer. After, I believe, three years of searching - they found Tiktallic, which was exactly what they were looking for.

I dunno about you, but I think that's pretty damned good evidence.


Even if evolution takes millions and millions of years, we should still be able to see some stages of its process. But, we simply don't observe any partially-evolved fish, frogs, lizards, birds, dogs, cats among us.


What about mudskippers? I think you're missing the point. Evolution doesn't aim to create new species - speciation just happens to occur when the genetics drift too far apart between populations. It doesn't stop when a new species is created. YOU are an evolutionary step away from Homo Sapiens, as will your children, and your children's children. Etc.




Another problem is how could partially-evolved plant and animal species survive over millions of years when their basic organs and tissues were still in the process of evolving?


Ask the Nautilus, it still has a pinhole eye - which is basically a proto-eye that hasn't evolved to the same sophistication as it's other cephelopod cousins such as Squid or Octopi.




Evolutionists claim that the genetic and biological similarities between species is evidence of common ancestry. However, that is only one interpretation of the evidence. Another possibility is that the comparative similarities are due to a common Designer who designed similar functions for similar purposes in all the various forms of life.




I don't have much time. I'll contribute more later if you so choose.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 08:22 PM
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No, you don't get it.... you will see illustrations all the time showing a fish to a crocodile for example with one or more intermeidate illustrations.. what your not being told is the so call intermediate illustration is "made up"

see these pics

www.harunyahya.com...


New specimens of fossils are constantly being unearthed all over the world. The number of fossils so far discovered exceeds 100 million. Scientific institutions and academies examine these fossils in detail. Yet as a result of all these endeavors, not a single intermediate life form that might represent evidence for evolution has ever been found.

New life forms also appeared suddenly and with complete, flawless structures in the ages after the Cambrian. Basic groups such as fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals each appeared on Earth in a single moment and in flawless forms. Not a single intermediate form of the kind hoped for by evolutionists exists among them.



www.harunyahya.com...


There is no difference between this 54- to 37million-year-old fossilized plane tree leaf and leaves of the same species alive today.

This 50-million-year-old fossilized bowfin is proof that these fish, still alive today, have remained unchanged for tens of millions of years

The distinguishing feature of these fossil crabs discovered in Denmark is that they are discovered in round concretions that rise to the surface of the ground at specific times of the year. These fossils, consequently known as "crab balls," generally date back to the Oligocene Period (37 to 23 million years ago).


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[edit on 18-12-2008 by GAOTU789]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by Yoda411

That's OK, because I am here to prove that creationists are delusional.

A.) Satan is an easy cop-out for anything Christian's don't want to hear.
B.) It is also a complete cop-out to say that God allowed for Evolution. This not only is not contradictory to my argument, it actually supports it.

Is faith of a false truth delusion?


A) That isn't a valid argument it is a personal opinion.
B) This argument suggests God exists and he is responsible for evolution, thus he is responsible for the creation of man. This would mean creationists are not delusional. So how would this support your argument?

First thing you must understand is that evolution does not contradict creationism. So it can't be used to prove creationists are delusional. Your logic is flawed.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by centrifugal
First thing you must understand is that evolution does not contradict creationism. So it can't be used to prove creationists are delusional. Your logic is flawed.




The term creationism is generally used to describe the belief that creation occurred literally as described in the Book of Genesis (for both Jews and Christians) or the Qur'an (for Muslims)[12] The terms creationism and creationist have become particularly associated with beliefs about the time frame of creation, conflicting with scientific understanding of natural history, particularly evolution. This conflict is most prevalent in the United States, where there has been sustained controversy in the public arena, centering over the issue of the science curriculum in public schools.





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