The Curse of Eve Genesis 3:16 question, page 1

The Curse of Eve Genesis 3:16 question, page

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Topic started on 18-12-2008 @ 12:43 PM by Clark W. Griswold

I was reading another thread on Adam and Eve and a question popped into my head.

Take Genesis 3:16
Genesis 3:16: To the woman he said,"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children.Your desire will be for your husband,and he will rule over you." New International Version

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. King James Version

16 Unto the woman He said: 'I will greatly multiply thy pain and thy travail; in pain thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.' Torah

I've looked up several translations and they are all basically the same. Eve's punishment for eating of the fruit of the forbidden tree. Right?
Eve and all future women bear this curse, correct?

The question I have is if this curse is for women, then why do female animals suffer pain in childbirth? The bible clearly says woman, meaning female humans. What did female animals do to deserve this curse? The bible does not say all female creatures. It says woman.

I'm very curious to hear opinions about this. It's one of those questions that probably will never get answered, but still, it's interesting.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:03 PM by SlyCM

I have an answer:

It's one of the billions of inconsistencies and logical absurdities in the bible.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:10 PM by theindependentjournal

reply to post by Clark W. Griswold

My question is this? How o you know animals feel pain in childbirth, did one tell you they did or did YOU assume they were?

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:11 PM by spy66

Well you could fist start to wonder why the animals were cast out from the Garden of Eden in the first place.
What did they do wrong?

Maybe all the male and female animals got the same punishment as humans because of the foolish snake/serpent.
Maybe we are all in this together and have to share the evil deeds we have done.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:13 PM by liquidsmoke206

Perhaps, you haven't considered.....that the Bible is a stupid book that only a total idiot would take seriously. Go pick up a few comic books and read those. Not only will they make more sense and be more believable, but you'll probably learn more from them too.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:14 PM by St Udio

of the dozens of litters our family cats have had, i don't recall the mother screaming out in pain at the deliverys.

of the 10 or so calf births i was attending while at the Dairy Farm,
i never heard a cow groan/moan/travail in pain...
the closest to a painful childbirth with a cow was the breech calf ,which sadly was already dead in the cows womb.

i've endlessly heard of the shot in the spine that most women accept to relieve the pain at delivery... ? how does that technological/medical achievement fit into the bible curse ?

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:15 PM by Clark W. Griswold

This is a reply to the independentjournal

Have you ever watched a dog or cat give birth? I'm assuming those aren't screams of joy coming from their mouths.

I had a stray cat deliver tail first and it was painful for me to watch. It was obvious the cat was in severe pain.

I would guess you don't think animals feel pain period? I didn't start this thread out to be snarky, I am genuinely curious, but you chose to reply with a crappy attitude. Why so defensive?

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Clark W. Griswold]

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:20 PM by asmeone2

What's more interesting to me is that the verse says he will *increase* the women's suffering.

SO... He intended children to be born in the Garden, but this did not happen before the Fall.

And childbirth would have been at least somewhat painful.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 01:21 PM by spy66

reply to post by liquidsmoke206

Or maybe only stupid people dont get the Bible because they dont have the knowledge to understand what they read.

They have to have it in pictures to grasp the reality of what they read.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 02:09 PM by theindependentjournal

reply to post by Clark W. Griswold

You are correct my friend.... YOU ARE ASSUMING those aren't yelps of joy and are of pain. Unless you speak DOG it is exactly an assumption..

I was raised on a farm in Minnesota and never recall animals seeming to be in pain during birth and most could do it without human help. The breach's were different but they are not the norm.

And I would be assuming they had pain in the breach birth cause I don't speak cowlinganese...

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:11 PM by Clark W. Griswold

reply to post by theindependentjournal

Dude---settle down. You must have some high blood pressure.

It's people like you who make others on this site afraid to ask any questions. Why do you have to be so obnoxious? I wasn't looking for a fight, but it seems like you are itching for one. Can't anyone ask a question around here without getting attitude in return? I ask again, why are you so darn defensive over a simple question? You know what, don't bother answering.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Clark W. Griswold]

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:16 PM by dashen

Why can't the "intelligent" people cease being so condesending to people of faith. People far more brilliant than anyone on this forum lived with fervent faith in the words of scripture. Truly discerning individuals would grant an alotment for the possibility is scriptural truth, although terse and difficult there are significant proofs to the validity of at least the old testament accounts.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:26 PM by dashen

reply to post by Clark W. Griswold

To answer your question, traditionally Man, and Woman were meant to be the pinnacle of Earth's fruits, and through their combined actions would uplift and justify the very existence of all aspects of earthly experiences which they represented, including animals, which are the closest creatures to Man on Earth. The punishment of Woman, therefore was translated down through all rungs of earthly existence. Animals, who most reseble us therefore were decreased in their blessing, proportionally to the blessing lost from Man and Woman. I hope I wasn't too vague.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:28 PM by jjkenobi

It said "greatly increase" the pain. That means there was pain before. So the animals may feel some pain but not near as much as human females.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:29 PM by Sliick

reply to post by dashen

If by "intelligent" you mean the people that don't take hold to religion, then I am one of them. I do not consider myself to be condescending to those which carry faith with them. This is just to let you know that not all of us are fools.

It's the same as saying that all religious people have an arrogance about themselves. Believing they are better than me because they have a "God" to believe in.

Both arguments are irrelevant and I wish most of both sides would just let the others speak their peace and move on.

As for the whole Eve thing. I have a question....
God is infallible right?
Then why did he lie?

"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." -Genesis 2:17

She didn't die. God lied, therefore he is fallible. Therefore he doesn't exist.
(JUST MY OPINION)

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:33 PM by Clark W. Griswold

reply to post by jjkenobi

Thanks, that makes sense. It does say that and I'm man enough to admit I missed it.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 03:41 PM by dashen

Originally posted by Sliick
reply to post by dashen

As for the whole Eve thing. I have a question....
God is infallible right?
Then why did he lie?

"but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." -Genesis 2:17

She didn't die. God lied, therefore he is fallible. Therefore he doesn't exist.
(JUST MY OPINION)

Before the sin of the fruit of the tree of good and Evel, Adam and Eve were "immortal", they theoretically would never have died. Once they sinned they were condemned to mortality, in an uncooperative world. G-d doesn't lie, we do.

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