Originally posted by L.I.B.
Anyone with eyes can see that you are accusing the brethren, in this case, holy war.

That saying is not understood.

Here is the true meaning of "Satan is the accuser of the brethren":

The world is the accuser of the Son of God. It says he is guilty. The gOd of this world is what I will call s.a.t.a.n...a machine-like mind that performs as a separation analogue. It makes its world to *prove* the Son of God is guilty. If it can prove that anyone is guilty, it has justified its faulty premise. It, and its world is a false witness against the Son of God.

The gOd of genesis accuses and declares guilt. So, this is s.a.t.a.n. Man is the prodigal Son of God. So, to accuse man of guilt is to accuse the Son of God. The truth is, neither man, nor the Son of God is guilty. The world is a "set-up"...literally a *false witness*. A false witness *frames* the innnocent, making him *look* guilty. But what *appears* to be guilt is not guilt, and for a very good reason that you are not willing to understand at the moment. None are guilty of anything. Guilt is false. This is the judgement of Christ upon the gOd of this world. And without guilt, its world will pass away. In fact, it has already passed away, but for the illusion of time.

The Pharisees accused, and declared guilt. Jesus said their "father" was "the devil". Christianity, like the gOd of genesis, accuses the brethren [all men] every Sunday, saying that they are guilty, and in need of a sacrifice to cover them. So, these are of s.a.t.a.n, and not the truth. The truth "takes away the sins of the world" because, sin is not true. The truth is like a lamb. A lamb does not defend itself when it is led to slaughter. The truth is slaughtered by most of what calls itself "Christianity"...daily. But like a lamb, the truth does not defend itself when it is slain. Therefore, do not be too sure of your own judgement. You have temporarily, in your confusion, sided with guilt, and so, have sided with s.a.t.a.n. the accuser of the bretheren.

Christ!



[edit on 23-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by badmedia
The only true church is not physical. You build your own personal church. It is built off of knowledge and understanding, the only things that are both on earth and in heaven at the same time, the only things that can be taken with you. The only thing which can not be destroyed, and will not be destroyed. It is no coincidence that the rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom, not the one who has material wealth.

You follow and worship Satan.

Think of s.a.t.a.n. as a mind which separates the Son of God into parts, pieces, fragments, compartments, departments, apartments, groups, and individuals. Think of this process as *the abreakment*. Think of the reunification of the Son of God as the *atonement*. The process of atonement begins with the recognition that every man you meet, regardless of belief, is the broken Son of God. Upon this recognition is built the true church. This is the solid foundation, the "rock" upon which the true church must be built. The fact that everyone is the Son of God is the true unifying factor for any community built on the way of Jesus.

"Christianity" is not built on this foundation, and so, it is built on the sand, foolishly, and will fall. These, are some [not all] of the "gates of hell". The gates of hell are simply the "many"...the plural...the exclusive groups, the stauch individualists, the special ones, the autonomous wills...and such as those who wish for a glorified body among *many*. Hell is separation, one from another, in guilt. The human body, obviously, is a separate entity, each of which supports the concept of hell. So every body is a "gate" of hell, which bars and defends each its little kingdom against the truth.

The Kingdom of God, on the other hand, is built on oneness, equality, unlimitedness, and sharing. The Son of God is the Kingdom of God. It's oneness will "prevail", over the separateness of the *many*. This means that man will pass away, along with all the world of s.a.t.a.n. The oneness begins when you say to your neighbor, "I see you are the Son of God". Or, to the least of your neighbors, "I greet you as the Son of God". In this way, the church is built on identity, as each identifies with Christ. Perhaps it is not appropriate to say this to the general public, but you can certainly think it. And should likeminded brethren gather together, such greetings are a perfect opportunity to support them in thier salvation by reinforcing their true identity. And doing so, you give truly and reinforce your own identity as well. This is also to recognize your neighbor as sinless...innnocent...not guilty. Why? Because the Son of God is not guilty.

On the contrary, the churches of s.a.t.a.n. greet one another as "Bob", "Jane", "Pastor Mike"...and deem all as guilty. It is not enough to claim innocence based on blood money. Such a claim says that guilt is a real, valid concept, and that everyone has been guilty at some time or another. This is not the truth, and supports the superstructure of guilt instead. If you asked any in the churches of s.a.t.a.n. if they are Christ, the Son of God...if you asked them three times at night...I prophecy that each one will deny it three times before the dawn.

For this reason, there are about 20,000 sects of Christianity today. They are not built on "the rock" of mutual identification with the Son of God, free of guilt. Rather, they are built on something like "slaves of Christ", "servants of Christ", "brethren in Christ", "purchased by Christ"... semantic gymnastics which avoid the key question: "Who do you say that I am?" To a man, not one will confess that he is Christ, the Son of God. And yet, if they would follow Jesus, they would follow his example in this regard.

All who post at ATS are the Son of God, broken for the "many". This is true regardless of belief.

Christ!

[edit on 23-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by doctorex
Christ said you you still have to do the will of the father, and that includes the 10 commandments. How many "saved" actually follow these, such as the the 7th day Sabbath?

"But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." - Luke 23:40-43

What deeds had this criminal done to 'earn' his way to heaven?

This criminal didn't earn his way to heaven. He isn't even in heaven. He is in the grave like everyone else. People read that verse that way because that is how the punctuation has been added when translated into English, simply to give that impression, but if you read other verses, you know that isn't the case. Jesus didn't say that the thief would be with him that day in heaven, he told him that day, ("today") that he would be with him in paradise, he didn't say when, and he didn't say heaven. Now we know for a fact that the thief didn't go to heaven with Jesus that day. Why? Because Jesus himself didn't even go to heaven. Where did Jesus go that day?

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

and three days and three nights later...

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Also, Christ was the first raised from the dead to everlasting life, but this wasn't until three days and three nights after the day he was speaking to the thief on the cross. Did the thief on the cross beat Jesus to the punch? No, he didn't....

1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

These verses state where Jesus went that day, and how many days later he did go to heaven, and when the first of humanity get their chance of eternal life (at his second coming), so obviously the way the verse you mentioned is set out wrong with the punctuation, it should read...

"I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise."

and what was the paradise Christ was talking about where the thief would be? His kingdom, and since he was he had not repented, at the second resurrection, 1000 years after the return of Christ. That was the promise Christ was making him.

Originally posted by doctorex
How about the commandment about idols and graven images?

What about it?

what about it? It's God's word. It's just like the pictures of Christ, such as your avatar, do you realize they break one of the commandments? I know, you'll simply justify it away somehow like everyone does. The pictures of Christ that you see make me sick. They make him look like some effeminate pansy. He was a carpenter, he would have been very built and strong, and he wouldn't have had long hair....

1Corinthians 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

The traditional image of Christ is simply a Satanic perversion if you understand it.

Originally posted by doctorex
How many "saved christians" do you see walking around with Jesus hanging from their necks etc. I could go on forever.

I cannot tell who is saved and who is not by what is hanging from their necks. Can you?

I can tell you one thing, those who hang graven images around their necks are simply deceiving themselves that they are saved, since they are not doing the will of the Father, and not repenting of it.


[edit on 23/12/08 by doctorex]

Originally posted by Christ!
Think of s.a.t.a.n. as a mind which separates the Son of God into parts, pieces, fragments, compartments, departments, apartments, groups, and individuals. Think of this process as *the abreakment*. Think of the reunification of the Son of God as the *atonement*. The process of atonement begins with the recognition that every man you meet, regardless of belief, is the broken Son of God. Upon this recognition is built the true church. This is the solid foundation, the "rock" upon which the true church must be built. The fact that everyone is the Son of God is the true unifying factor for any community built on the way of Jesus.

Yes, upon that recognition of the truth, the church is built. I agree.

"Christianity" is not built on this foundation, and so, it is built on the sand, foolishly, and will fall. These, are some [not all] of the "gates of hell". The gates of hell are simply the "many"...the plural...the exclusive groups, the stauch individualists, the special ones, the autonomous wills...and such as those who wish for a glorified body among *many*. Hell is separation, one from another, in guilt. The human body, obviously, is a separate entity, each of which supports the concept of hell. So every body is a "gate" of hell, which bars and defends each its little kingdom against the truth.

I'm pretty stauch individual. Always have been. I don't see it as a problem. I think if I focus only on that, and ignore that all is one that I make a mistake. I do not understand why I can't be an individual and also recognize the deeper truth to the situation. I am certainly at that point today. I understand what you are generally getting at, and certainly do agree. It is something we need to understand and such, and to not see this truth is to be blind. I know you and me are the same person, as is everyone else. But I don't see how I can not realize and understand this truth and not have my individual being. I have been down the rabbit hole until it was just the 2 of us, me and the father, and even that became one with the understanding of consciousness.

I think that the veil which has been pulled over our eyes is the seperation. And when you judge another, you actually are at that moment judging yourself. When the veil is lifted, we will say OMG I had no idea. But I just don't see where we have to lose our individuality there.

The Kingdom of God, on the other hand, is built on oneness, equality, unlimitedness, and sharing. The Son of God is the Kingdom of God. It's oneness will "prevail", over the separateness of the *many*. This means that man will pass away, along with all the world of s.a.t.a.n. The oneness begins when you say to your neighbor, "I see you are the Son of God". Or, to the least of your neighbors, "I greet you as the Son of God". In this way, the church is built on identity, as each identifies with Christ. Perhaps it is not appropriate to say this to the general public, but you can certainly think it. And should likeminded brethren gather together, such greetings are a perfect opportunity to support them in thier salvation by reinforcing their true identity. And doing so, you give truly and reinforce your own identity as well. This is also to recognize your neighbor as sinless...innnocent...not guilty. Why? Because the Son of God is not guilty.

In a world where we are living in the lie, I feel that when like minded people come together and have discussion, understandings and the deeper truths will come out between them, and that is to build the church. Where you aren't building on identity, but on actual understanding of the truth. I see the truth as being the equation, and the identity to be just the variable in that equation. When you build and focus on a certain value/identity of that equation, then you tell a lie because you lock that variable in a fixed idenity/value. However, if you instead focus on the equation, and not the single values of the variables expressing the equation, then you are focusing on truth, and building based on that truth, which is what a true church is built on.

For example, lets say this is an equation: Jesus = Son of God. Ok, if we focus only on the identity there, then the only truth we can see in that question is that Jesus is the son of god. We are focusing on the identiy. However, if we replace Jesus in that statement with a variable, X = Son of God, then we focus on the equation/truth, and all true variables can fit in there, IE: You = Son of God, where X = You. And then you can start to see where Jesus is speaking truth to you. When you apply it to only the single identity, you completely keep the truth hidden. And that is what we see with idol worship and the physical church and so on. Jesus = Son of God is technically "true", but X = Son of God is truth. Half the truth is often the greatest lie.

The rest of your post also goes right in line with that. Where they see only the strict images, and not the equation/philosophy/real truth. As I've said before, it's somewhat difficult to respond, because I pretty much agree with everything you say, just express it differently. But the only thing I have trouble with is what it means to drop your individual. I struggle with why I can't realize the truth and be an individual as I am now. It's not something I care all that much about keeping, but I do think it could be a bit better if everyone realized the truth and kept their individuality at the same time. If everyone realized the truth, then there would not fall victim to the lie.

When reading the Bible, we have two choices. Accept what it says a true, or explain it away until it fits what we want to hear. I've learned a lot from the Bible. I learned I was wrong at times with the way I was thinking and had to change according to what scripture said. Truth being the constant in the world, it was me that needed to be dynamic.

I always use the New American Bible. It is the one that Catholics use. I trust this one cause it is the original bible that was put together by the early church fathers for 1500 years!

So does nyone else see conspiracy here? If you do, who do you think is behind it?

Originally posted by badmedia

The rest of your post also goes right in line with that. Where they see only the strict images, and not the equation/philosophy/real truth. As I've said before, it's somewhat difficult to respond, because I pretty much agree with everything you say, just express it differently. But the only thing I have trouble with is what it means to drop your individual. I struggle with why I can't realize the truth and be an individual as I am now. It's not something I care all that much about keeping, but I do think it could be a bit better if everyone realized the truth and kept their individuality at the same time. If everyone realized the truth, then there would not fall victim to the lie.

X = The Son of God is closer to the truth. Might I suggest, it is half the truth. X = mask over the face of Christ. Christ = everything. X = everything Christ is not.

Everything visible to the human eye is a mask over the face of Christ. The birds, the bees, the planets, the animals, the humans. They are all "X". But X is not equal to the Son of God...is not the Son of God. The Son of God is the process by which X seems to appear and be "real". If you see X, you cannot see the Son of God, for X hides the Son of God from X...as do masks hide the face of the mask wearer from the mask wearers.

The Son of God is the truth, so the mask hides the truth from the mask wearers. A mask wearer may be vaguely suspicious of masks, intuitively aware that they hide something. This passes for "spirituality" in a world of masks.

The world is a mask that is intended to hide the truth...to obliterate the Kingdom of God from consciousness. The mask ["veil"] hides the Son of God. The Son of God is reality, so X blocks out reality. It cannot destroy reality, but if it could, reality would be dead on account of X. X is a rediculous parody of the Son of God. Whereas X mocks the Son of God, Jesus fills X with a parody that speaks the truth about the Son of God, honors him, and restores him as the mask wearers come to understand the lessons, and put down their masks.

One might say, why can't I be X and be somewhat aware that we are all connected to Christ? If you do that, you are making the same mistake Paul made. If you do that, you make the same mistake that Earnest Holmes made. It's the same mistake that JJ Hurtak makes when he accepts that the universe is "many and one". The "many and one" is a combination of true and untrue, "good and evil". These are combinations. Understand that "the universe" of s.a.t.a.n. is a combination...an attempt to have both true AND untrue, good AND evil, one AND many. The result is something that is entirely false, entirely not true, completely illusion...everything fake.

So, the desire to be an individualist in such a place is merely to maintain the status quo. Note well, how certain spiritual paths intend to pull divine power and energy from some "source"...soley to maintain the status quo...only to enable the empowerment of individualism. Paul did this. Almost everyone is doing this. This is the desire to have *both*, which divides the mind against itself. Jesus did not do this. Because to do this yields the experience of individualism. It yields individualism because it is impossible to have both the experience of oneness and plurality at the same time. The attempt to have both will yeild the experience of illusion, and not the truth.
Truth is an identity as much as the Son of God is an identity. "I am the truth" is a statement of identity. And this is because in the Kingdom of God, having and being are the same. In the Kingdom, you do not just have the truth. You are not just aware of the truth. Either you are the truth or you are not. If you are the truth, your experience will be of the truth. If you are not, your experience will not be of the truth.
Jesus wanted only truth.
Christ!

Originally posted by badmedia

In a world where we are living in the lie, I feel that when like minded people come together and have discussion, understandings and the deeper truths will come out between them, and that is to build the church. Where you aren't building on identity, but on actual understanding of the truth. I see the truth as being the equation, and the identity to be just the variable in that equation.

If like minded people like individualism [differences, special status, names of their own, aliases, masks, masquerades] more than the truth, then confusion will come from their discussions whenever they get together. But if they get together in the name of One, which is the totality of everything real, then their discussions may be joined by the strength of the One, rather than dissapated by the weakness of the many. The intention of the gatherers effects the outcome of the meeting.

Generally, it is not the intention of those on the "broad path" to meet in the name of Christ. The word "Christ" may fall off of their tongues, but in a meaningless - mindless - way, unreflective of what Christ is all about. To know everything about the world of illusion is to know nothing. Most meet to know everything about nothing, gathering to themselves a wealth of information...with the intention of supporting individualistic goal seeking.

Even the concept of "obeying" whatever the gOd of this world wills you to "do"...even this is a mask over individualistic goal seeking. To go with the flow of such gOd is to maintain the status quo. Everyone who wears a mask is going with the flow of the gOd of this world. To do so deliberately is not a change at all. It is just more foolish masquerading.

Christ!



[edit on 23-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Christ!
If like minded people like individualism [differences, special status, names of their own, aliases, masks, masquerades] more than the truth, then confusion will come from their discussions whenever they get together. But if they get together in the name of One, which is the totality of everything real, then their discussions may be joined by the strength of the One, rather than dissapated by the weakness of the many. The intention of the gatherers effects the outcome of the meeting.

Generally, it is not the intention of those on the "broad path" to meet in the name of Christ. The word "Christ" may fall off of their tongues, but in a meaningless - mindless - way, unreflective of what Christ is all about. To know everything about the world of illusion is to know nothing. Most meet to know everything about nothing, gathering to themselves a wealth of information...with the intention of supporting individualistic goal seeking.

Even the concept of "obeying" whatever the gOd of this world wills you to "do"...even this is a mask over individualistic goal seeking. To go with the flow of such gOd is to maintain the status quo. Everyone who wears a mask is going with the flow of the gOd of this world. To do so deliberately is not a change at all. It is just more foolish masquerading.

Christ!

I can see what you are saying. But then that would lead this to being without purpose, without reason. As if to have only randomly happened. If there was confusion that lead to this, then there was a reason for that confusion. Because there was confusion before then, then all of truth must have not been understood. As we already find ourselves in this predicament, then there is no choice but to come to understanding as an individual before we can move on. After which point, there is no longer a purpose or reason to be here, and as the confusion which was obviously here before this was allowed will not happen anymore, as that confusion has been understood.

While I may can know only the good, or only know the truth, I have no real understanding unless I also know the bad, and know the lie. Just as I can always be hot, or I can always be cold - but I will have no real understanding of what I was, unless I also felt what I wasn't was. I would say ohh I'm hot, only because I was told or knew I was hot, not because I actually understood what it meant to be hot or cold.

Maybe it is silly and confused that we even "ate from the tree of knowledge" in the first place. But at this point isn't that rather beside the fact? The biggest lie is half the truth. And if there is no bigger lie than what is before our eyes, then it also must at it's core be based on some forms of truth. If not anything beyond the equations and relative truth based on individual perception. So I see it as the truth needing to be uncovered and separated from the lie.

As I have experienced the lie, the only way I can get it out of my reality is to identify it as the lie and point it out as the lie. I think in the end it will be exactly as you say, but I don't see how we can ignore and be out of the lie until we identify and understand why it is the lie, and what the actual truth is. Thus, revelations unfold before us as we do this. As we have eaten from the tree of knowledge, the option of not knowing evil/lie is not present. The only way out seems to be to find the truth and differences between good and evil and then understand and choose the good.

Is to say that this can not be done to say that god can not do it? That we can not understand either? To say this lie can not bring forward the truth, is that not to say that you are not bringing me truth, as your words have come before my eyes? But I think there is truth in what you have said, the trouble is first understanding why it is true. Which I would not have been able to do a few years ago.






[edit on 23-12-2008 by badmedia]

The conversation I think is running along these lines:

Neo: All these memories I have, these places I went.... None of it ever happened. What does that mean?

Trinity: That the Matrix cannot tell you who you are.

It can't tell me who I am - and I agree with that. But it can and does show me what I am not. Which brings me better understanding of what I am.

Originally posted by badmedia
To say this lie can not bring forward the truth, is that not to say that you are not bringing me truth, as your words have come before my eyes? But I think there is truth in what you have said, the trouble is first understanding why it is true. Which I would not have been able to do a few years ago.

My words resonate as the "truth" because the truth is written on your heart, so-to-speak. That is, truth is your core identity...whereas, the world is your fake identity...*outside* of "you"...*beyond* you. So, the Kingdom of God is "within" and the world is *without*. This is conceptual, for learning purposes only. The world is also "within" you because there is nothing outside of the Son of God. The world is a thought in your mind...you, the Son of God. The world symbolizes, conceptually, what is outside of you...*nothing*. What is *beyond* the Son? Everything that is nothing. This is all to say that you *are* the Kingdom of God, and nOt the world. This is also to say that you are HeaveN, and nOt hEll.

As you turn your mind toward the truth, it begins to sound "familiar" when you are presented with symbols that point to it. The words I use are technically not the truth, because words are symbols, and symbols are not the truth. This world is entirely made up of symbols. So, the Truth must use symbols to reach those who think they are symbols. The best a symbol can do is *point to the truth*.

As such, Jesus was a symbol which pointed to the truth by way of parable and parody. For those who were weary of untruth, what he said and did sounded familiar, probable, possible. Above all, what Jesus pointed to represents everyone's true desire, though they may be temporarily preoccupied with ancient distractions. Distracted, those on the "broad path" mistake a symbol - Jesus - for "the truth"...and stop...going no further.

A body is anything but the truth. And as a rule of thumb, if its lips are moving, it is lying. Likewise, if an elf's lips are moving, it is also lying, because elves do not exist, right? [Is that blasphemy?] And neither does man. [More blasphemy?].

So the way out is confusing to the confused. How can a man say, "I am the truth?". He can only say this if he has exchanged his identity, from the false to the true...putting off the "old man", and putting on "Christ" instead...dead to the world...dead to "sin"...alive to Christ. To Jesus, there was no Jesus. Jesus was *nothing* to Jesus. Jesus was *dead* to Jesus. To Jesus the world was *nothing*...and of *no value*.

Jesus exchanged his identity through *baptism*, that is, the washing of his mind with words of truth. As he did this, he could hear truth more and more, until its Voice was very clear to him. He emerged from this process knowing himSelf as the "Son of God"...the totality of everything...one with the Voice that taught him. To become one with his Teacher, he did lay down his own "life", so-to-speak, as an individual person, as a Jew, as a carpenter, as a son of man...as anything that is not everything. So he "died", and the Teacher took up the empty shell of the symbol left behind.

Jesus didn't die on the cross. Rather, Jesus "died" some time between his emergence from the desert, and the cross. He emerged from the desert a teacher, teaching as heard his Teacher teaching him. This process is a mind-changing process. It is baptism, but it is also atonement...the process of surrender, one with the Truth. At some point along that path, he began to speak as the Teacher, as the Life, as the Truth, as the Way...in first person. In this way, he identified with Christ, going *through Christ* to the Father.

On the cross was the Teacher...feeling no pain...teaching that an innocent mind cannot suffer. The Teacher teaches in parable and parody. As such, the crucifixion was a parody of genesis, and exodus the resurrection.

Christ!

[edit on 24-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by badmedia
Maybe it is silly and confused that we even "ate from the tree of knowledge" in the first place. But at this point isn't that rather beside the fact?

A better understanding is that the Son of God naturally "eats" of the Tree of Knowledge...which is the Tree of Life. That is, he knows all, is knowledge itself, and all his thoughts stem from this basic premise...Life is the Truth, and he *knows* it. Eating is a symbol of thinking, what one is digesting in one's mind. Naturally, the Son of God digests the Truth...is the Truth...and shares the Truth [creation]. Another "tree" is another premise, another way of thinking. So we are talking about divergent thoughts systems, one premised on knowledge, and another premised on ignorance...and bearing fruit accordingly. The term "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is a trick...a joke...a false premise. First of all, evil, that is, whatever is beyond the knowledge [the good] of the Son...cannot be known! So to suggest it can be known is misleading, confusing, enticing, joking, distracting, subverting...perverting. At best, it can be *experienced* for the *feelings* it produces, until there is no more curiosity about the feelings. When the feelings pass away, they will not be felt anymore...or even remembered. So their value is speculative. The complexity of the world...all of the forms...events...scenarios...these are all for the feelings. Like props on a stage, the complexity evokes feelings when scripts are performed. One can learn about prop-making, but it is not knowledge. The props themselves have no intrinsic value to the Son of God. In the scripts, the props are expendable...destructible...for feelings. So then, if the value of the feelings is speculative...and the props that evoke them are of dubious value, can the world have any value at all? It's value, if any, is that it is an expression of freedom, and from his own self-made prison the Son of God emerges free again, as always. Can this add to his joy? I'm saying it cannot, does not. But then, the world itself answers that question quite well on its own.

Christ!



[edit on 24-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by badmedia
The conversation I think is running along these lines:

Neo: All these memories I have, these places I went.... None of it ever happened. What does that mean?

Trinity: That the Matrix cannot tell you who you are.

It can't tell me who I am - and I agree with that. But it can and does show me what I am not. Which brings me better understanding of what I am.

Matrix is a great parable, and these quotes are spot on. Only as you are aware that the world [the "Matrix"] is showing you what you are nOt, can you use it to extricate yourself from its web [turn the tables]. Until you are aware of it, the web decieves, ruthlessly teaching what you are nOt. Vigilance is key, and leads to an awakening. If the world is a sleeping mind, then awakening means exodus, escape, deliverance. As you awaken, you come to a better understanding of what you are. Nothing in the world will teach you that you made it up in your mind. That knowledge comes from beyond the "matrix".

The biblical "genesis" story is mixed up. It arises from man's subconscious mind ["Adam"], which is asleep, and reacting to an untrue premise...in denial about the order of things...in denial about true cause and effect. Sleeping, this mind has dreamed of separation [Eve splits off from Adam]...dreamed of what is beyond oneness, and *judging* separation/beyond to be the truth, conjures up feelings of guilt about it. It begins to hide, covering itself with the entire universe of space, time and form...the proverbial "fig leaf". The universe of separation hides from the truth of oneness, and defends against it, lest it come and take separation away. The mind that makes the universe projects blame on the universe, and set it up for failure , justifying guilt. In this way, Adam [mind asleep] blames Eve [the universe] for the way it feels, separated, alone, guilty...and presents a false witness against "her", that "he" may feel innocent...at the expense of another. So, the world becomes a scapegoat for the gOd of this world, which feels guilty as hell without something to blame. And, like its maker, the world passes the buck, blaming "others" that each one may feel relatively innocent. So all that is really happening is a "blame game"...and any little infraction will suffice for a death penalty. In this way, innocence is gained by sacrificing the guilty. This is all false, because the premise is false. Separation is not possible, so guilt is not a reasonable response...nor is blame reasonable...nor is sacrifice reasonable. Instead, GoD provides the truth [the gospel], which dispells what is essentially a spell conjured up within a very powerful mind.

Christ!





[edit on 24-12-2008 by Christ!]

Originally posted by badmedia
The conversation I think is running along these lines:

Neo: All these memories I have, these places I went.... None of it ever happened. What does that mean?

Trinity: That the Matrix cannot tell you who you are.

It can't tell me who I am - and I agree with that. But it can and does show me what I am not. Which brings me better understanding of what I am.

Wonderful post badmedia, many of the things you have said in this forum have been close to my own walk.

Skipping over parts I agree with again and can't add or anything to shorten things up.

Originally posted by Christ!
As you turn your mind toward the truth, it begins to sound "familiar" when you are presented with symbols that point to it. The words I use are technically not the truth, because words are symbols, and symbols are not the truth. This world is entirely made up of symbols. So, the Truth must use symbols to reach those who think they are symbols. The best a symbol can do is *point to the truth*.

Yes, this is what I mean by equations and variables. A + B = C. Any image/symbol can be used, but there is a truth in it, as 1 + 2 = 3. Where as I see Jesus as a variable, his life as another variable and the time and place as more variables and the end result of course being truth and the philosophy/equation to follow to get to that end. Where as I do not find truth in the image/symbol of Jesus and the story, it is when I look beyond just the symbols and I see the equation the symbols are presenting that I see the truth.

And this is how I have gotten truth from the lie. And when I look and read what people write, this is what I look at. When someone says "Jesus is truth", I don't know if they are focusing on the image, or the equation, but from discussion I can see it. So when I told someone earlier, they belonged to the Church of Satan, it was based on their version of the equation and how they were focusing on the image/idol more than the actual truth.

It's such a fine line and difficult to show someone. I can say Jesus is truth all day long and they won't understanding anything further than the image/symbolism.

It's like the matrix movie. There is so much truth in that movie it is unbelievable and takes many viewings to see it all. I've seen it a ton of times and everytime I see it again it reveals something deeper.

If I say that movie is true, then there are 2 ways of seeing this. If you take that literally, then it means machines control and manipulate humans in the future and so on. And that is easily laughed off. but if you are able to see the philosophy and deeper things it represents, then you can see the truth in it. And that is basically also how I see Jesus and the bible.

As such, Jesus was a symbol which pointed to the truth by way of parable and parody. For those who were weary of untruth, what he said and did sounded familiar, probable, possible. Above all, what Jesus pointed to represents everyone's true desire, though they may be temporarily preoccupied with ancient distractions. Distracted, those on the "broad path" mistake a symbol - Jesus - for "the truth"...and stop...going no further.

Yes, the parables are definitely what make the words of Jesus special and different, they bring understanding to things. I learned separate of the bible, but when I started reading Jesus after I quickly realized he was talking about the exact same things I learned.

The rest of your post I agree with, and I think we are saying the same things.