The problem is in the false doctrines of Paul and the twisting of the gospels (although there is truth in them, but you have to already know the truth in order recognize it as the truth).

The Word was not meant for everyone. It was to a specific group and when Jesus said to a crowd "Ye are the light of the world," the crowd he was talking to was *not* gentiles. It was Jews. The only times that Jesus acknowledged being the messiah was when he was talking to those of mixed bloodlines and he specifically said to a canaanite woman (a gentile) that he had come for the house of Israel. He granted her wish after she showed faith, but notice he does it in a very dismissive way.

The christians have little power in their words because they lack knowledge and understanding. They try to force a false doctrine onto others and thus have created not only a huge mess, but have in fact now started engaging in very scary and sick manifestations of what they perceive as G-d, but is nothing more than an image of the god in their minds.

G-d should never be sought for what He can bring to you. In fact, G-d can NOT be found by those He is not calling to Him. There is a purpose for His calling. Anyone who would try to force you to believe a certain way has no understanding of G-d's character. Anyone who worships a man is not worshipping G-d.

Do not be deceived by false doctrines. They are subtle and they offer much, but as is becoming evident, it takes so much from people and leaves them empty, broken, and resentful. YOU were NOT meant to live life that way.



[edit on 19-12-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 19-12-2008 by justamomma]

Let me stop you right there and correct your figure to 1500 years or so.

Modern religion is just selling hope. I don't know if there is anything wrong with that. If worshiping whatever deity you choose feels right to you then go for it, as long as your not hurting anyone else.

If thier is a god I would think god would want a more personal relationship with a person then what is offered by a church service. We know whats wrong and what right. Do we really need a priest and a building to tell us whats right and wrong and to talk to god for us?

[edit on 19-12-2008 by drock905]

It is christianity that will be the world religion.

This is why many christian conspiracy sites are popping up to make people think otherwise in order to reverse it and create a huge following. Hell worked for many centuries and they are testing the hell theory again on the general populace and know that hell still works and people accept it.

There will be many hell like situations that will take place to convince people further off hell and the end times.

They do not want people to evolve their minds and spirits but would rather keep them trapped.

Believe in Jesus not the negative stories.

reply to post by darkelf

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You are sooo right. I worked for several years as a business administrator for a larger local church and was able to view the church from the inside. God has been manipulated to serve man and the message has been compromised to enrich the deceitful in the so-called prosperity gospel. This appeals to all those with an ample amount of greed and little decernment.
What we have now is what is refered to in the scriptures as the Great Apostasy. We cannot change this. This is just another sign of the end times we now live in. We are admonished to not loose faith during this time, but look upward, for our redemption draws near. God has promised he will always have a remnant.
After the apostasy will come a Great Deception accompanied by signs in the heavens. I believe this could refer to a disclosure to society by our leaders that we have come from aliens, who I believe are in fact fallen angels used by the forces of darkness to deceive us into believing that we were seeded here. The scriptures tell us this deception will be so attractive that even the elect could be deceived.
Get ready. The next few years will be exciting times but fearful as well.

I could be the one that always nags...But...But...We both live on the same planet and in the same period of time...How is it possible that you 'believe' the bible and I 'know' it is a bunch of crap.

Of course I respect the historical value it has and so...But when a grown man or woman, a taxpaying adult, 'believes' something because they read or heard about it I always wonder.

I always thought of 'religion' as something that would slowly fade away because it did so in my own family, generation after generation. I think at this moment there are only two people in my family that 'believe' and say prayers before dinner. I really dislike them, is this coincidental?

My idea of religion is as follows:
If a man was born and raised by wolves and never would meet any other human...He certainly would not suddenly start 'believing' in some form of a 'God'. Even at a later age...Because there would be nobody to tell him that there is such a thing as 'god'.

So shouldn't we say 'religion' is something that is invented by people? And then of course wonder why (see other related threads on ATS!)?

But again...I always nag to people that say they 'believe'. Because...From all people (yeah, also the two family members I mentioned earlier!) or blogs that received my questions/naggin's I have never heard a explanation or a solid reason for them 'believing'. All I get is 'It's personal, you won't get it'...Or similar responses.

But if this is so, and it is personal, what use has a church? A church doesn't seem all that 'personal'. Correct me if I am wrong.

I just cannot get convinced (and lucky for me I don't have too!) and what I would like to know is what convinced you 'theindependentjournal'...Independent? Or the poster of this thread, Darkelf. Do you live by a set of dictated rules? Or are you just thinking 'there must be something more to this and I call it god'.

David Icke (besides his reptilian focus) sounds more convincing than a old book...

There are certain historical facts that Christians are either unaware of, or simply ignore.

There was no such religion prior to roughly 40 AD, it slowly grew as a ridiculed and divisive cult which was officially adopted by by Emperor Constantine around 400 AD. This is not up for debate, it is a concrete recognised historical fact....so please tell me why was there no GOD, or BIBLE before this time ?

How is it possible for the Bible to be the truth when it has not even existed for most of human history ? Anyone ?

Further the only religion involving God at all prior to 40 AD was the Jewish cult, again, a small cult which itself was only a couple of hundred years young - how is that from the days of Byzantium, the rivers of Mesopotamia, the Nile Delta, the Ming and Qing Dynasties, The Hellenic, Vandals, Visigoths, Romans had not a single mention of this for thousands of years ?

The notion of modern Christianity as a single true religion is the most intellectually feeble and disingenuous usurping of reality I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.

The very simple truth is that if you are in any way shape or form engaged with this religion as potential truth then you are profoundly disillusioned.

The most cursory understanding of human history will reveal its core values as being reprehensible, its nature as being anything but inspired by some altruistic benevolence......

You may feel that you believe, that you have faith, etc - but that is where it ends - Religion is the bastion of the fool.

reply to post by darkelf

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Starred & flagged.

Now, I wonder how many of those "Christians" voted for a president that manipulated and lied (both sins) the American People into the War in Iraq?

One of the commandments is "Thou Shall Not Kill". It is the shortest of all the commandments, there is no if ands or buts on this one, no twisting your logic out from under this one "law of God".

My own humble oberservation is that I have met some "Christians" that were some of the meanest, self-righteous bastards this side of the equator.

All the major religions were constructed to "keep the hairy little talking beast in line". Read William Bramley's "The Gods of Eden".

So many wars, crusades, inquisitions and the rest of it all in the name of "God".

Mankind is still in the midst of such a very primitive mindset and most people even though they say they think for themselves, can't or won't.

When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion. - Abraham Lincoln

When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow.-Anais Nin

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.-Blaise Pascal

Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion –- several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven. -Mark Twain

Heres my 2 cents.

If god knows the heart and soul and minds of all people then I think hes gonna cut me some slack.
I don't believe in any religion whatsoever and the whole satan thing I think is bs.
I really hope that god understands that it is so confusing looking at a bible and trying to figure out what is real what is true and what was written by men with an agenda.
I think after its all said and done god isn't going to care if I believed in Jesus or not...I think he would realize that this life is full of confusion and if I came out of it still trying to be a good person and still trying to enlighten myself then I really don't think hes gonna banish me to the imaginary hell.

I'll give an example to the people here who have kids.
If your kid took from the cookie jar when you told him not to,would you banish that child.No you would correct it or try to and if you couldn't then you would just accept thats how they are and love them anyways.
At what point would you write off your kids?
I am hoping your answer would be never.
If parents can love that much and gods love is much much more then I think he would never banish us as we are his children from what I have been told.

So the whole Jesus thing and christianity,I feel I can make my own roads and god isn't going to hate me for not believing in a story that is not straight up enough for me to believe...I am a simple man.

I don't read bibles and met many people who were raised athiest and they have morals and do good things.

reply to post by wylekat

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I walked away from Church too Wyle ..for almost the same reasons ..but what I didnt do was blame God for their actions ..neither did I place my faith in man of the churches ...I placed my faith in GOD and him alone ...They did not make me leave the Lord and follow them ..in fact they helped me find the real Lord Jesus ...because I found him after church ..in my daily prayers to him and my daily reading of his word and my daily seeking the LORD >>not the church members ..or the preachers etc ...
I am working out my own salvation instead of worrying about what THEY ARE DOING or not doing .....I suggest you all do the same ....they will not go unpunished ..

I have to inject a bit of humor in here but not one without a point. My pastor has this saying now and then that always gets a chuckle. Whenever he expands on a topic that usually starts with, "Now I believe that what's being said here means..." and ends with, "disagree with me if you like, but when we get to heaven you'll see that I'm right and you're wrong."

The point being this. Are you John 3:16? If so, I'll see you there. The rest is merely doing our best to explore the truth. Arrogance does not only happen at church (shocked?) but it is the one place that will be criticized for it.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by saint4God]

I fear for those with this type of attitude. People are so desperate to fill something and this is what modern christianity feeds on!

Here is the danger in not seeking the Truth and being willing to settle for hope.. BTW, this made me physically ill to watch, but I think it is necessary to watch in order to be aware that there IS a DANGER here:

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Now, while I don't agree that day in and day out witnessing is necessary and that G-d is perfectly capable of calling a person to Him if it is His will, there is still much to be exposed in the above two vids about how dangerous it is to be so desperate to fill a void any way possible... this is sick and NOT how G-d works; yet THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS ARE FALLING FOR THIS!! We have a major problem on our doorstep folks.


www.youtube.com...

Watch the peoples faces contort (particularly the lady (w/ a man) as she slips from her chair at about 55 seconds in. Kenneth Copeland and kenneth Hagins laughter, to me, seems to be evil and knowing the deception and manipulation they are imposing on these ppl who have opened themselves to things that are NOT of G-d.

reply to post by Simplynoone

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I went to church for only three years from the ages of 9 till 12 years old I think it was, lol, it WAS a long time ago! My family didn't go and there had never been talk of God in our household.

As far as I am concerned, personally, the church introduced me to the name of the presence that I had been aware of since a very young age.

Thereafter, for the next 30 years approximately I read the bible numerous times through, lived as Christ Jesus taught as best I could and had a prayerful life full of thanksgiving.

Then came that fateful day a Christian told me what they thought John 14:6 meant, to which I was appalled by and they said that is what their preacher taught. That was the day my search to understand God began.

What a process that was! After that came to a conclusion and till now, the thankfulness continues. Seems like I've come full circle. lol

I saw only a little of that one video- I couldn't handle it. That was.... like a train wreck- horrible, but you have to tear yourself away. What in the world...?!

How is this being an imitator of Christ?

How in the HECK does this show God's love to someone who hasn't a clue?

I'd like input from solid Jews, hardline Islamists, Muslims, Buddhists, ect. Would those videos convert you to being a Christian? Atheists- How about you?

How about someone hurting and desperate- what do YOU think?

We heard from the ATS experts... I'd like to hear from everyone who is NOT a Christian.

reply to post by wylekat

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Actually a couple on this thread are not part of religion. I was religious, and was a Christian, but no longer am.

I no longer attach Jesus or God with Christianity or any religion for that matter. I fervently believe that they are having nothing to do with any of them. The proof is in the exposure of all religions right now, and it's failure rate. Certainly a "sign" that God is not with them!

Some on this thread expect a great apostasy of those leaving and turning away from religion. I consider this a good thing!! For them, this religious apostasy is a bad, but expected thing, and easily used as a tool to shame.

For others like myself - this great mass exodus is due to; "enlightenment!" Apostasy has only relevancy for those who are religious, and carries no weight for the rest of us. Especially, for those of us who know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it was God who motivated us to do so.

Sometimes, I really wonder if the 'Apostasy' hasn't already happened, and people like us who have just had a gutful and walked off aren't the remnant. Kinda like a party where someone breaks out the booze and the drugs- you walk out, and you don't get a block before the cops show up and bust everyone at the party.

As for the videos- I ask in the same way a person would hang art in a gallery. "Give me your opinion- is it art?" Put on your Spock ears and use good ol' cold hard logic. Does it appeal? Would it make you want to convert? What's the message these people are portraying? Block the video and just use your ears. Is there a message? Is anything speaking to you?

I will also add- at a few of these 'things', I have had some pastor, preacher, or evangilguy wallop, smack, whang, and otherwise try to force me to fall backwards. I have bad balance- I wobble in a good stiff wind. HOWEVER- not ONE TIME have I ever been sent backwards. Never. I think they could have smacked me face on with a 2x4, and I wouldn't have wavered. Then, I was told about going to your knees, or face first, or being told to stand. That spoke volumes to me right there. To be honest, there were times, I felt like someone was pushing from the opposite direction....

1. Not a christian (first and foremost, this MUST be known about me!!)
2. Other than not keeping to the 610+ laws, my knowledge falls in line with the Jewish view (though not to be mistaken for the zionist movement)
3. Love the philosophies of some of the great leaders of many religions
4. Am not an ATS expert

I am actually relieved to hear that you could not get through it. That is a VERY good thing!!! It is sick! I did make it through those and many others, though I PHYSICALLY got ill and cried like a baby.

I made myself get through them because I know ppl in movements that could lead to these very same things and thus wanted to know exactly what was going on so that I could combat this kind of behavior; among those ppl i know if no one else.

The first video's "preacher" has openly admitted to abusing his mother; being possessed; and even now subscribes to an angel named "emma O" which is an angel that he claims brings financial abundance etc, but after researching "emma O" I found out that this is an angel that eastern religions have subscribed to for a very long time and consider to be one of the gatekeepers of hell.

THIS IS THE DANGER THAT COMES FROM STAYING IN IGNORANCE AND LOOKING OUTSIDE ONESELF TO FULFILL DESIRES AND/OR EMPTINESS AND I for one HIGHLY discourage it!


I also HIGHLY discourage the worship of any of man, including Jesus (who WAS a man.... I DO believe him to be the prophesied messiah, but as even the bible records, he came to unite the house of Israel and NOT to be the savior of the world as many subscribe to)! It is VERY dangerous to NOT be studying these things for oneself and to believe whatever a preacher tells you JUST so you can live under the delusion of false manifestations and/or eternal life. IT is TIME for ppl to get a grip of themselves and to start searching these things out for themselves. . PLEASE!

[edit on 20-12-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 20-12-2008 by justamomma]

I am sure it's impossible for anyone to keep up with them.

I got the realization I am like the piano I share this trailer I am renting. Desperately out of tune- and needing to be tuned correctly. And this thing is REALLY out of tune. It needs a 'tuna' but good. I thought for a min- " I could tune the thing" but I wouldn't be doing it based on experience! I would just do what might work, or might break the piano.

That's what these preachers are- untrained, uncaring piano tuners making some of the most discordant music.....

reply to post by wylekat

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Couldn't agree with you more!!

As I have said before, perhaps this is one of the many clues in the Bible that if one is a sleuth, you can find scriptures that actually have an opposite meaning! A scripture that was written to deliberately mislead.