Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Contrary to popular belief, you can have a relationship with God without the organized settings.

Your premise is true.

The gnostic texts, book excluded from the Bible, document the "secret" teachings of Christ and the notion you can have a direct relationship with God. The Roman Church found that idea appalling - believers needed a priest in their opinion.

The hidden narrative and repressed teaching of the Bible is this - God is, as the Sumerian's believed, a potential energy source humans could tap into (not just a deity). Solomon is a perfect example.

Great post.

I myself and an Atheist so you can imagine how much grief I get from so called Christians.But, I still support and defend a persons right to worship as they please and whom they please as long as it doesn't infringe on my rights.I also agree that Churches ( not all ) have become a big business and make billions of tax free money.It's become strickly about the cash for the salvation God offers.

I see too many people today believing only what the church says they should believe and the people fallowing blindly and with out question.Don't be affraid to question some thing if you think it might be wrong.

Star and flag. Good thread. I agree. There are too many people claiming they know it all. I don't know everything. In fact if I don't know I don't post about the subject.

Sometimes if I think the topic is important enough I will u2u someone I think is better at answering. No matter what they're Christian beliefs are.

Every single Christian here I would consider saved as long as they believe in God and his Son Jesus Christ. I would also think that they have to believe in the bible as the word of God. But some of us Christian have a thought that they're right. Sometimes I even get that attitude. But that doesn't mean that you Christian are not saved. God bless

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Do you presume to know men's hearts?

then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men, 1 Kings 8:39

No I don't, and you already knew this because of what you posted below:

Yes, we can know their fruits, and in holywar's post he said: I don't believe I am better than anyone, and I don't judge anybody, for God has given his son Jesus the authority to judge. We have a responsibility for humbling ourselves and finding the one and true way.

That, to me, is some pretty fine fruit. To which you told him he was following Satan.

Because that is not his only post. I know what his religion is. It's an organized religion.

I trust Jesus' insight. I don't know that you have the ability to see another's soul as he did.

So, the real difference is in your and his abilities. Can you, have you ever seen another person's soul? Have you ever healed anyone? Have you ever prophesied and had what you said come true?

Actually, I was told I would touch souls. I have healed people from ignorance, many people. I have been telling people what was going to happen in the US since 2003, and it has all came true. In fact, I was called every bad name you can think of for what I said, people - who called themselves christians - even wished death on me. And yet today, most of those same people see and say the same things I was ridiculed for.

Prophecy? I don't know if you could call it that, I call it paying attention and common sense. But I didn't get it in a vision or anything - it was just obvious to me what was going on. I told people before Iraq war there were no WMD, but that didn't require prophecy, all you had to do was cross check the half-life of the weapons, vs the date we sold the weapons to them.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Since you cannot discern people's hearts, nor able to see their soul, may I recommend you not be so quick to judge who someone is following and being guilty of the same thing that satan is said to do?

Because organized religions manipulate the truth. They view Jesus as a sacrifice for them, rather than him living an example for them to follow, which in reality means it's a sacrifice of truth so that the lie may live.

It's a fine line on why Jesus was murdered, and it makes all the difference. Just as there is a difference in taking truth as authority rather than authority as truth.

People say Satans biggest trick is to make people think he doesn't exist. I'd say his biggest trick was making people think he wasn't already in control.

Also, you have said before that you have seen the father, and not Jesus. Due to this, what makes you so sure that you won't be one of those who is told: And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'?

What makes me so sure is the simple fact I don't even have to be here. Which was the question asked of me before I was given the knowledge I was given. My heart is pure.

Don't think I haven't noticed that all the points I made have been ignored and the focus has turned from those points to the messenger. You attack me instead of debating my points.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
As for the points you raised, saying that they weren't addressed, not only are they old and everyone knows them, but we have already discussed most of them. The one point concerning 'the murder' of Jesus we haven't discussed thoroughly yet, but we will no doubt in the other thread.

So now that we've discussed Jesus and as most of us knows about it - I guess we have no reason to address it anymore. Hardly. You are simply wanting to leave the corruption of the church out of things. Sorry, but I look at both hands. Satan brings deception and illusion because he only allows people to focus on a single hand - the hand which appears to be doing good. The rest is done in secret.

I along with the OP ask: How are you "loving one another" when you denounce every Christian you come across as being deceived and they are wrong? This viewpoint, I think, prevents you from seeing that many actually do know Christ and what's more are mature in Christ.

I'll be sure to call my Parents up and let them know they never loved me. How dare they ever tell me I was wrong!

This view of what "love" is just a manipulation. These things you guys call Love is not Love at all. Are you showing the person in your family who's an addict love by ignoring it? No. If you love someone then you want to show them the truth and give them freedom - that is real love. Not this crap being shoved out in place of love, where it's all about being "nice" to each other. Only if I didn't love someone would I let them continue without saying anything.

These are just MEANINGLESS words thrown around. Same with words like respect, faith and so on. These things are not expressed in words, they are expressed in action.

It's like people who go to memorial to show their "respect for those who died", and all the while giving away the very things they fought for. Thats not respect. If you respected them you would stick up for what they did. If you love and respect Jesus then you will stick up for what he did. And you would tell people the truth - even when it is not the popular belief. Even when the person you are telling might not like that truth.

Some people think it is respectful to keep your mouth shut and not disagree with someone. I think it is completely disrespectful to do it. It says - I don't think enough of you to tell you my honest opinion, or that I don't think you could handle an honest opinion. And so once again the truth is sacrificed in order to keep a lie going.

Hollow words. I am weary of anyone who throws these words.

Of course there is a limit. Even as much as I dislike the church I would never do or support anything which took away the right for people to attend and worship freely. I would never use force or power to make someone agree with me - in line with the topic at hand. And that is again a true sign of love - not just words someone says while smiling at the person.

I am not about a single religion, I am about a single understanding - truth. Of which can be expressed among the people in many different ways, we all have our own unique way of expressing it.

Can it really be that you, in all the world, are the only one to know what it is that you know? Or could it be that they have grown past that angry stage over what has been done and have since learned to come to terms with what God's will is and thereby gaining and growing in grace and understanding.

Actually, it is pretty much guaranteed that I am the only one who knows what I know. That is the result of a unique perspective. Every man will think he is right.

You think I am angry? Hardly. Frustrated and disappointed at most.

So, getting past the "angry stage" involves just ignoring all the evils done? You call that grace? Sorry, but there is nothing graceful about shrinking down - which you wouldn't do if you knew the truth.

A cleansing is coming, and it will be all these silly attachments being removed from the truth. As Jesus said - the true church will not be destroyed, it is only the church of Satan that falls - even told by the bible as in the end times what happens? A one world religion is formed - exactly what Christians push for.

The biggest misconceptions in the christian church form because they do not realize Satan is the one who has power on this earth, always has, and will until the 2nd coming of truth. As such, they actually push the 1 world religion because they believe anything which is against the church is of Satan. Which is even more ironic because it was the church leaders that conspired and killed Jesus for their own power.

No, I will NOT shut up about it. I don't care if you or anyone else thinks that means I'm not being loving, or being respectful. If at the end of everything I turn out to be right, would you still say I was being respectful if I kept my mouth shut and never shared the truth with you? No, that would be disrespectful and unloving of me to keep truth to myself.

There is a difference in me expressing my opinion and telling people what I feel is truth (which I don't just say blindly, I offer reasons why) and me going around killing people and manipulating people to agree with me out of fear. Jesus heals and converts people with truth. The church has done so by killing people that didn't go along, and manipulating people out of fear of hell if they went against the church. They work in sin, and there is no defense of it.



[edit on 18-12-2008 by badmedia]

Alright Badmedia ..once again we all agree the Church has MANY MANY faults and is apostate right now ...but please dont judge the WHOLE LOT by a few bad apples ..(ok so there are more than a few) ...Seriously though ...
What Church has killed in the name of Jesus lately ?
How many Christians would you say were involved with killing lately ?
certainly not a majority if at all .

Bush and this Government KILLED using the name of the Lord Jesus Christ the Christians merely got manipulate to vote for him ....does that make them guilty too ....NO >..and I am not saying they did right ...because I screamed as loud as I could at them at that time (his second term ) not to be BLINDLY LED OFF THAT SAME CLIFF as Bush and them were going off of at the time ........

They did it because they are asleep and living carnally minded ....... and need to not be SHUNNED .or accused (because they are now seeing what they helped to do ) ...........but WOKEN UP >..(alot of them did get awaken after the fact ) ...and they need to be LED BACK TO the LORD JESUS and away from this kingdom on earth which is a worldy kingdom ...they got sucked up into the world of politics etc ...it blinded most of them ..
They need fellow brethren to help lead them back and to pray that they will open their eyes so that they can see again ...

THEY CAN BE FORGIVEN just like you and I have been Badmedia for the times that we have fallen and gotten sucked back into the carnal things in this world ..([politics,wars,money worries etc) .................
We must not give up on our fellow brethren and sisters in the Lord ..we are supposed to PRAY FOR THEM ..NOT GIVE UP ON THEM ..the Lord never once gave up on ME >.I wont give up on them ..and I dearly love them (as you said) enough to actually tell them ..they need to get out of the world (spiritually speaking ) and get back to seeking the Lord and his rightousness and the Kingdom of God ..........not the kingdoms of man ...

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Alright Badmedia ..once again we all agree the Church has MANY MANY faults and is apostate right now ...but please dont judge the WHOLE LOT by a few bad apples ..(ok so there are more than a few) ...Seriously though ...
What Church has killed in the name of Jesus lately ?
How many Christians would you say were involved with killing lately ?
certainly not a majority if at all .

Bush and this Government KILLED using the name of the Lord Jesus Christ the Christians merely got manipulate to vote for him ....does that make them guilty too ....NO >..and I am not saying they did right ...because I screamed as loud as I could at them at that time (his second term ) not to be BLINDLY LED OFF THAT SAME CLIFF as Bush and them were going off of at the time

They were misled and are continuous mislead because the church provides no truth to them. No understanding. The entire concept of "just war" is a lie. There is no such thing, Jesus is proof. Those who war do so because they fear death. If these people were of the real church of christ, they would not have fallen to such manipulation period.

People just think they can do it through government and not be guilty of it. Does that make them guilty too -> YES! But does that mean they can't be forgiven? No. They can be forgiven, but as I have said many times - to be forgiven is not just a matter of saying "forgive me" as you go and do it again. It is to understanding and admit you were wrong, to understand why you are wrong, and then to NOT do it anymore. At which point you are forgiven because it is no longer an issue.

If we refuse to acknowledge this truth, then we refuse to ask for forgiveness. Instead of correcting the problem, we continue it. Instead of bringing the true message of Christ, we allow it to be stomped on and we allow symbolism and ignorance to represent it instead of truth.

They did it because they are asleep and living carnally minded ....... and need to not be SHUNNED .or accused (because they are now seeing what they helped to do ) ...........but WOKEN UP >..(alot of them did get awaken after the fact ) ...and they need to be LED BACK TO the LORD JESUS and away from this kingdom on earth which is a worldy kingdom ...they got sucked up into the world of politics etc ...it blinded most of them ..
They need fellow brethren to help lead them back and to pray that they will open their eyes so that they can see again ...

THEY CAN BE FORGIVEN just like you and I have been Badmedia for the times that we have fallen and gotten sucked back into the carnal things in this world ..([politics,wars,money worries etc) .................
We must not give up on our fellow brethren and sisters in the Lord ..we are supposed to PRAY FOR THEM ..NOT GIVE UP ON THEM ..the Lord never once gave up on ME >.I wont give up on them ..and I dearly love them (as you said) enough to actually tell them ..they need to get out of the world (spiritually speaking ) and get back to seeking the Lord and his rightousness and the Kingdom of God ..........not the kingdoms of man ...

I'll put it like this. I will tap you gently the first few times to wake someone up. Eventually I'm going to start shaking. If that doesn't work, I might even throw a bit of water on you. But it could be worse.

If I give up - I won't post anymore.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Just please please stop doing as the unbelievers do ...continuously accuse and condemn all believers for the actions of a few .....
It actually hurts my heart to see you constantly degrading ALL believers who are in those Churches ...they are not all mindless drones ..some are just baby believers and have been led astray ...or stunted Christians who dont even know how to take that first step out of that mess ......................
As you said most of them were taught wrong ...and yes the only way out for them is to read the word for themselves and seek the Lord on their own ..
But certainly church has its purpose ..as it can and does get used for the purpose of giving a new born believer some sort of fellowship which they need at first ...,...you know how hard it is when you first believed ..(at least I do) when everything changes in your life and all your friends leave you etc ...it is really nice to have someone there to help hold you up ....
That is something I really miss about Church .....and the people in them ..

The only way to ask for forgiveness is to first understand the truth. I am pointing out that the path they have been lead on is not the true path. That the true path is narrow, and is not just about believing and accepting Jesus.

The way a magician works is by keeping the focus on 1 hand, while the other hand performs in secret. And that is what is being asked of me here, to purposely ignore the other hand and it's deeds, so that I might believe the lie/illusion of the left hand. So when you ask me to reject and forget all the things the path of the church has given, this is what you ask me to do, and I won't do it. There is nothing you can say that would make me just ignore and act like the other hand didn't exist.

Yes, I realize that not everyone has done bad things, and I am not talking about individuals. I am talking about the system of control put in place by the church as a way of manipulating people to do things opposite of what Jesus taught. While the individual churches of today might not be guilty, they are branches of that original church and carry the same misleading path no matter if they know it or not. That Jesus was a sacrificial lamb, and by just believing in that you will be saved, not that by following in his example you can be saved, and that his sacrifice and suffering was done so that you might can see the truth. These are huge differences.

Just because someone says they are christian or whatever means nothing at all to me. It's not a free pass as is sold, and Jesus himself says this in Matthew 7. What kind of person would I be knowing this - if I did not point it out to others. I am obligated to do so.

I go straight to the deceived, not to those who already understand.

I'm sick of the lie. Absolutely sick of it. I'm sick of fake people, fake society and the whole of it. Only the truth can cure these things.

Once upon a time, I had a run-in with the dogma that is christianity. I could not help wondering why I could find no sound basis for a trinity, a 'rapture' and the reasons for there being a bewildering variety of bibles and denominations. Research of a kind that could only be called devout (think prayer and fasting), has so far indicated to me that the new testament of the book known as the Bible is patently false, and the old testament has more holes than my socks! True story!

Originally posted by AshleyD
It's not that speaking the truth or standing up for righteousness is wrong. In fact, we are instructed to do so. However, we are told to do it with 'love, meekness, and respect.' Not hate, ego, and arrogance.

So why do I so often read CHRISTIAN FOLKS on ATS promoting torture or subhuman treatment of offenders? Turn Iraq to glass with nukes and all the likes...

If I saw the quote above being practiced ( if written thoughts count )
I would be happy with the spread of christianity.

Unfortunately I her burn the faggots, death to Muslims and put any sort of prisoner on a island so they can eat each other...

I often find it ironic that I seem to be more compassionate then people who supposedly
follow the teachings of the most loving perfect man ever???

Finally if god is coming back here, Armageddon is eminent and only god can judge a mans soul why do christians feel compelled to sit in judgment in regards to booty busters?

If we sinners are going to burn in hell and you christian get to live indefinitely why not let some things slide ( south of murder, rape....)?

Does my unrepentant sin effect your passage into heaven?

If not, chill out, do your time here on earth and do yer thing.

What Church has killed in the name of Jesus lately ? How many Christians would you say were involved with killing lately ?

The Church kills the helpless and poor almost every day. There are exceptions, but very, very few. I should know. I was one of the ones 'killed'.

Now ya gotta ask yourself- "If you're dead, How come you can post?" Easy. i wasn't killed blood and guts style- I was killed spiritually. I have actually *heard* my spirit scream once. I have been lied to, stolen from, and treated like general crap by "loving" Christians who have damaged my soul irreparably. Christian women wont come near me- My poorness is a horrible disease they might catch. I have dealt with "Evangelical" big shots in the church- And as a witness to this- I don't want to hear debate. I saw with my own eyes this one person bless and heal the rich with far more care and prayer than he dared throw at the ones who didn't have 2 nickles to rub together. He spent 15 minutes dealing with a group of well suited, jewel and gold watch dripping fat cats- and people like me, less well dressed, we got smacked on the head and howled at. Nothing else. And this happened more than once, and with various churches.

I've stopped going to church. I have had it with fairytales that do not happen. I am tired of watching the fantastically rich pull up in their expensive cars and look down on me because I have a tired old VW bug. I have had it with country club churches. I have had it with "God helps those who help themselves" and "The poor have to work hard for their blessings- makes them appreciate the blessings more"> so much for the helpless and the dying, huh?

And Where is God in all this???? WHY are these fat cats prospering? WHY are the poor basically flushed down the toilet??? WHY should I worship this deity who lets these horrible things happen to me and millions of others?!


Well?