Christianity has become big business in the last 50 years or so. It is the “I know more than you,” or the “I have secret knowledge” attitude that so many preachers are peddling to the masses for huge amounts of money. Even L. Ron Hubbard saw the possibility for making money off religion. A fool is quickly parted with his money so what is the harm? These people get what they deserve right?

Mega churches have sprung up all across the US and in some places outside of the US. These churches are Christian in name only. Their pastors and parishioners are empty shells pretending to be the body of Christ but know little or nothing about Him. They only want a ‘feel-good’ message. They think by following doctrine they are Christian, but deny the love of God.

The “I am right and you are wrong” message touted by so many Christians nowadays only serve to divide churches rather than unite them. And this is the gateway to the conspiracy. With so much division among the religions, how can anyone know who is right or wrong. Why not take the best of all religions and combine them into one all-encompassing religion where everyone is right and no one is wrong?

Usher in the Ecumenical movement, the one world religion prophesied in the book of Revelation. What better way to cure the problem of division? Look how easily Christians have fallen into the trap. The NWO church is the answer to a problem that had to be created.

The first Church Age was the Apostolic Church. It is characterized by the emphasis on teaching doctrine. This is apparent through the teachings of Paul and the apostles. The second Church Age was the Persecuted Church. But the Church survived although many gave up their lives rather than their beliefs. The third Church age was the “legal” Church where Constantine made Christianity legal and tried to make everyone happy by combining Christian worship with pagan practices. This led to the fourth Church Age known as the Medieval Church when the Papacy declared that no other religion would be allowed. By this time the Church was so deep in paganism and debauchery that the Apostolic Church was barely discernable. This was the cause of the reformation or the fifth Church Age which was the Denominational Church. Yet for all their protest, they were little different from the preceding Church Age.

The Denominational Church characterizes the division in Christianity. Denominations split to form new denominations. Everyone claimed that their brand of Christianity was right and all others were wrong. This was the Church of Judgment and most churches participated in this. Judgment can be a very dangerous thing. If it is based in truth it can be healing but it is almost always divisive. The “I am right and you are wrong” attitude is usually based in ego or pride. There is no room for love. It says “I am a better Christian than you are.”

But Jesus promised that His Church would never die. Jesus preached love and the sixth Church Age characterized His commandment to go into all the world preaching the Gospel. It is the Evangelical Church. It is the Church of Philadelphia that Jesus spoke so lovingly to in Revelation. It is characterized by their love of God and the love of God’s Word. But division hit it too. Many so-called evangelical churches today are nothing like the original. This has led to the seventh Church Age and the one in which we currently see so much division. If we can’t unite Christians, how do we unite the rest of the religions?

It reminds me of Icke’s conspiracy definition of problem, reaction, solution. The problem is there are too many religious beliefs. The reaction is the wars and deaths caused by extreme differing beliefs. The solution is to create a world religion that encompasses all religions. Those who refuse will be incarcerated or killed.

This is how the powers that be have worked throughout the ages to destroy the Church that Jesus said would never be destroyed. The global government and global church were prophesized thousands of years ago. It is found throughout the Bible.

When people are starving, they will eat most anything. Christians are in such a spiritual famine that they are willing to ingest anything that sounds good. We’re spiritually devouring each other over things that really don’t matter. What difference does it make if you believe that Jesus died on a cross or a pole or a tree? Does it matter if you use musical instruments in worship? How can you love your fellow man if you are beating him over the head with your Bible? Don’t commit spiritual cannibalism in the Body of Christ

I ask you again; how can you “love one another” like Jesus commanded when you are on the ego trip of “I’m right and you are wrong?” The Evangelical Church Age was characterized by its love of God and love of His Word. Be careful in claiming that your belief is correct. Support you belief in love not judgment. We may each have a different interpretation of what the scripture means so who is right and who is wrong? We fight among ourselves and the world laughs at us. What makes doctrine more important than devotion?

The conspiracy to create a one world religion depends on our division. We must spend our time arguing doctrine rather than spending time in devotion with God. We must be right in our doctrine no matter what so that we create division. We can’t allow ourselves to question whether we are right or wrong. We must judge rather than love.


This is my opinion and I may be wrong, but I believe God is right!

Wonderful thread, Dark Elf. Star & Flag. I completely agree with everything you have said and the same thing has been on my mind a lot lately.

I'm a non denominational Christian myself. It saddens me so greatly to see Protestants and Catholics going at each other, the KJV crowd vs. the NIV crowd, denominations sparring with each other, etc. I pretty much stay out of those arguments. To me, if you have accepted Jesus as your Savior, then you are part of the flock. Period.

I've kept quiet about it on ATS because I don't want to stir dissension among my fellow Christians but to be honest, the attitudes of the 'I'm better than you' and 'I'm a TRUE Christian and you're not' coming from other Christians is upsetting, frustrating, and sad. Fortunately, I've only seen a handful of members act that way on here towards other Christians.

On one occasion I remember being told by another Christian I was going to Hell because I didn't agree with their view on the rapture. Another time I was called a false prophet and had to show scripture to back up what I was saying. Once I was told God would 'spew me out of His mouth' due to being unsure about some things in the creation account and on another occasion I was accused of not being a true Christian for believing in free will. I can think of many more examples just from here but you get the point. It gets ridiculous and does nothing but reflect poorly on us as a whole.

That sort of sniping happens everywhere off of ATS as well. I just try to stay away from it when a conversation turns to that and believe it is exactly what you say it is- ego and pride overshadowing love and humility. I also agree with your opinion on Mega churches and feel-good sermons.

Really good thread. You addressed something that has been weighing on my mind for about a year but I was too scared to mention it. Nice conspiracy angle, too, about the rifts being used to usher in an ecumenical movement.

[edit on 12/18/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by holywar
I believe in worshiping God on HIS terms, not mine, and submitting to HIS requirements. After trying to "go at it on my own", and studying and practicing other faiths, I have come to believe I found the true religion, which is the religion that Jesus practiced and preached. I don't believe I am better than anyone, and I don't judge anybody, for God has given his son Jesus the authority to judge. We have a responsibility for humbling ourselves and finding the one and true way.

Jesus spoke of two ways: “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. - Matthew 7:13, 14

But yet, when the rich man approaches Jesus - what does Jesus tell the rich man? Does he tell the rich man to just believe in him and the rest is taken care of? No, he tells the rich man to go give his riches to the poor and walk the path. He says is it harder to get a rich man into heaven, than to get a camel through the eye of a needle. Basically impossible.

However, in the church, this same rich man is supposed to be able to get into heaven by simply accepting Jesus as his savior. The rich man doesn't have to do what Jesus told him to do. He can keep his riches and still get into heaven.

Why is it that this same church has also created it's own religion? Jesus was a Jew, not a christian. Why does this same church portray Jesus as physically beautiful like the anti-christ, rather than what his actual descriptions were?

Why has this same church gone around and done things in sin? Killed those who didn't agree, just as christians were done before?

Why does the christian church teach that the scribes are the leaders?

Why is it that it says those who follow Jesus will be persecuted, and yet we have a president of the most powerful nation in the world claiming to be a christian? But yet, many who do not claim to be christian are persecuted for sticking up for the teachings of Jesus.

Why is the christian church able to get it's power before the return of christ? When the only one with true power on this earth is the god of this world, Satan?

Why is it that the christian religion is trying to establish itself as the only world religion? Converting everyone to it's symbolism and teachings as is said the anti-christ would do?

Because the christian church is the church of Satan is why. And the images you see of Jesus are images of the anti-christ.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The only true church is not physical. You build your own personal church. It is built off of knowledge and understanding, the only things that are both on earth and in heaven at the same time, the only things that can be taken with you. The only thing which can not be destroyed, and will not be destroyed. It is no coincidence that the rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom, not the one who has material wealth.

You follow and worship Satan.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by holywar
I believe in worshiping God on HIS terms, not mine, and submitting to HIS requirements. After trying to "go at it on my own", and studying and practicing other faiths, I have come to believe I found the true religion, which is the religion that Jesus practiced and preached. I don't believe I am better than anyone, and I don't judge anybody, for God has given his son Jesus the authority to judge. We have a responsibility for humbling ourselves and finding the one and true way.

Jesus spoke of two ways: “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it. - Matthew 7:13, 14

But yet, when the rich man approaches Jesus - what does Jesus tell the rich man? Does he tell the rich man to just believe in him and the rest is taken care of? No, he tells the rich man to go give his riches to the poor and walk the path. He says is it harder to get a rich man into heaven, than to get a camel through the eye of a needle. Basically impossible.

However, in the church, this same rich man is supposed to be able to get into heaven by simply accepting Jesus as his savior. The rich man doesn't have to do what Jesus told him to do. He can keep his riches and still get into heaven.

Why is it that this same church has also created it's own religion? Jesus was a Jew, not a christian. Why does this same church portray Jesus as physically beautiful like the anti-christ, rather than what his actual descriptions were?

Why has this same church gone around and done things in sin? Killed those who didn't agree, just as christians were done before?

Why does the christian church teach that the scribes are the leaders?

Why is it that it says those who follow Jesus will be persecuted, and yet we have a president of the most powerful nation in the world claiming to be a christian? But yet, many who do not claim to be christian are persecuted for sticking up for the teachings of Jesus.

Why is the christian church able to get it's power before the return of christ? When the only one with true power on this earth is the god of this world, Satan?

Why is it that the christian religion is trying to establish itself as the only world religion? Converting everyone to it's symbolism and teachings as is said the anti-christ would do?

Because the christian church is the church of Satan is why. And the images you see of Jesus are images of the anti-christ.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The only true church is not physical. You build your own personal church. It is built off of knowledge and understanding, the only things that are both on earth and in heaven at the same time, the only things that can be taken with you. The only thing which can not be destroyed, and will not be destroyed. It is no coincidence that the rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom, not the one who has material wealth.

You follow and worship Satan.

Perfect, just perfect.

Perfect proof of darkelf's post and verifys the point about the seventh Church Age.

According to this person everyone, besides him, is following and worshiping Satan... and the accuser of the brethren is who? Yes, Satan. Ironies of ironies.

And only those who accuse as he accuses does he say "they know"... too funny!!! or sad

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Perfect, just perfect.

Perfect proof of darkelf's post and verifys the point about the seventh Church Age.

According to this person everyone, besides him, is following and worshiping Satan... and the accuser of the brethren is who? Yes, Satan. Ironies of ironies.

And only those who accuse as he accuses does he say "they know"... too funny!!! or sad

Then I guess Jesus is Satan as well, as he called the pharisees hypocrites and children of Satan.

So I guess by pointing out the truth of the matter, I am Satan. Hmm, lets see who benefits most from the truth not being told? Oh yeah, it's the people who live on the lies.

I presented truths, you are free to debate those truths if you wish. Or you can just accuse me of being Satan as a way of avoiding them I guess.

As for the OP, the real church of Jesus can not be divided. All these churches getting divided is nothing more than the church of Satan being divided, as it tries to cope with the falsehoods and hypocrisy of those found within them. As a way of trying not to lose all, it changes and adapts to keep as much of the lie intact as possible.





[edit on 18-12-2008 by badmedia]

Originally posted by L.I.B.
If the shoe fits, wear it.

I'm not the one saying that Jesus is a liar.

If you can attack and accuse the person rather than addressing their points do it? Whatever it takes to keep the truth from showing? Gotta hurry up and direct attention away from it, and onto the perceived faults of the messenger huh?

What I gave was not a matter of opinion. They are all verifiable truths anyone who doesn't turn a blind eye to it can see. All you can do is mention the "wonderful works" done, which have all been done in sin. You know, stuff like killing anyone who disagrees with you as a way of spreading the religion, and then saying - oh hey look, we converted all these people.

Do you think Jesus is kidding when he says he will tell them - he knows them not?

And oh, I could have gone on with the list too, that was the short version. I didn't even get into the pharisees, or jews who call themselves such but really aren't. Of course, we are to ignore these fruits. Oh no, don't look at the left hand - keep focusing on the right hand so we can shove this lie right too you.

No thanks, I can feed myself.


[edit on 18-12-2008 by badmedia]

Alas, we are witnessing the true nature of organised religion.

Before the dominance of the Abrahamic religions, religion was less organised and the practice of worshipping was very liberal. In ancient Sumer each city had its own god, temple and religious order. The idea, or doctrine, of sectarian or religious violence was non-existence and alien. The civilization was collectively unified by the chief god, Anu, but citizens were free to worship any other Sumer deities after him.

Religion was a social event and festivals were public celebrations throughout Sumer. The same scenarios occurred pre-Christian Roman Empire and throughout Ancient Greece. Egypt too.

But, the conversion to Christianity throughout the empire resulted in a new doctrine: Our God, Our Rules, Our Holy Books. You was either apart of the community or allocated as an outsider and persecuted.

In theory, religious violence should not occur because of the common links between the Abrahamic religions. The Catholic Church has tried to implement a policy of peace with Jews and Muslims, but it is never going to occur.

Secularism is spreading fast and rapid, it is a fallacy to suggest religion can stop it.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by L.I.B.
If the shoe fits, wear it.

I'm not the one saying that Jesus is a liar.

If you can attack and accuse the person rather than addressing their points do it? Whatever it takes to keep the truth from showing? Gotta hurry up and direct attention away from it, and onto the perceived faults of the messenger huh?

What I gave was not a matter of opinion. They are all verifiable truths anyone who doesn't turn a blind eye to it can see.

Anyone with eyes can see that you are accusing the brethren, in this case, holy war.

If you don't like what it means to do that, then stop. It's all up to you.

Originally posted by infinite
But, the conversion to Christianity throughout the empire resulted in a new doctrine: Our God, Our Rules, Our Holy Books. You was either apart of the community or allocated as an outsider and persecuted.

In theory, religious violence should not occur because of the common links between the Abrahamic religions. The Catholic Church has tried to implement a policy of peace with Jews and Muslims, but it is never going to occur.

I agree with your post, and the odd thing about it - and what blew my mind - is that these things are actually warned of happening. Jesus told them not to put themselves above others and so on. But that is what happened. Understanding has been replaced by literal meanings and Jesus with a physical idol. All things that you weren't supposed to do.

So if people actually held to the teachings, rather than the symoblism then the violence wouldn't happen. Long topic in itself, but organized religion is just not how it is supposed to be.

And when you read the story of Jesus, we see this as being the exact same problem he faced with the Pharisees. Organized religion is just the modern day Pharisees.

1. Pharisee A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Anyone with eyes can see that you are accusing the brethren, in this case, holy war.

If you don't like what it means to do that, then stop. It's all up to you.

You mean I should ignore the corrupted fruits of the church and organized religion? I should ignore it's faults? I should ignore where it has corrupted the message? I should ignore the way the religion has been used as a way of keeping people ignorant? I should ignore the way the religion has been spread? I should ignore the sin done in the name of Jesus?

Only in times of deceit is telling the truth an act of war. So if me telling the truth means it is an act of war, then it's merely a sign of the times.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Anyone with eyes can see that you are accusing the brethren, in this case, holy war.

If you don't like what it means to do that, then stop. It's all up to you.

You mean I should ignore the corrupted fruits of the church and organized religion? I should ignore it's faults? I should ignore where it has corrupted the message? I should ignore the way the religion has been used as a way of keeping people ignorant? I should ignore the way the religion has been spread? I should ignore the sin done in the name of Jesus?

Only in times of deceit is telling the truth an act of war. So if me telling the truth means it is an act of war, then it's merely a sign of the times.

Holywar is the person of whom you said: "You follow and worship Satan."

It's not that speaking the truth or standing up for righteousness is wrong. In fact, we are instructed to do so. However, we are told to do it with 'love, meekness, and respect.' Not hate, ego, and arrogance.

Originally posted by L.I.B.
Holywar is the person of whom you said: "You follow and worship Satan."

Darn it, thought I got you good too.

But to address your post correctly - it is what he follows. I've seen his posts.

Again, you haven't addressed where Jesus said the same thing to the pharisees. You said it was of Satan, but yet here is Jesus doing the exact same thing in the same situation - talking to those who are pharisees, look at the definition.

Don't the accusations of Satan turn out to be false against Job? And yet true when Jesus did it? And so isn't that the real difference?

Thank you darkelf for your thread and insight.

We may not agree on some points but may on others.

As long as man is involved in controlling man though whatever vehicle he can use...he will!

Perhaps the message that may be so hard to digest is the concept that God has turned his back on all religion. Not just so-called "false" religion. Who determines that?

Why do any of you need the house of God to be a physical one? I love God and his son Jesus and can appreciate them without going inside a building.

Here is how I view the whole situation:

You can tell if you have God's spirit by the love that you have amongst yourselves. This thread is indicative of all the religious threads in that; they are missing that loving feeling very rapidly!

Contrary to popular belief, you can have a relationship with God without the organized settings.

In your hearts...can you honestly say that religion's have God's spirit on THEM, or has it become a wishful melancholy thought? What does the evidence show?????