Gays Ya or Na

Originally posted by Faisca
JOHNSmith, I ask you. How do you live your life? You don't believe in a higher being, and apparently you dont agree with science or math... Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but you probably are.
religion in general, are very hard things to deal with if you have an open mind. I question my religion all the time, I struggle with what I should believe in. It's no cakewalk, let me assure you.

As for my personal beliefs, I believe that something is true. I believe there are many answers out there. I believe that we as a people have learned very few if any of them and it will take a very long time before we actually have any quantifiable truth. If you are struggling with your religion maybe you should stop and ask yourself why. Maybe it's because you chose to believe something before you agreed to the terms of what that really means, not you have to accept the terms and they don't sit well with you. Maybe having an open mind is something you can't have with religion because it causes to many internal conflicts. That doesn't sound like bliss and happiness to me.

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
OK, well I didn't understand your "Adam and Eve" line, elite, but sure, why not. You see, thats what I was saying, exactly what you said. They were born that way, so how can God be perfect, if he made beings that would be persecuted? That makes no sense. I really don't see why someone can be 'anti-gay', because that really just totally disagrees with respecting one another and respecting them for WHAT THEY ARE. I just don't understand..how can you call yourself a good person when you discriminate and hate? Can't you see that all you are doing is sinning yourself? Even if you are not a religious person, every human has that 'feeling' or the conscience, HOPEFULLY, you know when you do something good or bad. As a HUMAN BEING, respect eachother, don't hate...all hate does is build more hate, until it becomes a war. Why can't we just accept people for what they are, and let God do the judging (LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS) and we just love and respect eachother?

-wD

-wD

Did i not say i will not judge them? yes i did, go back to what i posted, i will not judge them that is for God, but i can disagree with them and choose for them to not partake in my life, is that hating? no. discriminating? no/yes but no more than buying a car. hating? certainly not, i have many family members that are gay/lez and i love them to death, and when time calls will do anything for them.

to show my tolerance, my lesbian cousin was out of luck and almost out on the street, she asked for my help. I said cuz i love you but your lifestyle if you choose to stay with me will not come into my house, what you do on your own time is your buisness but do not bring your choosen sin into my home, she agreed and she stayed with me for over 6months.

But since you dont think God is perfect then i know you have no understanding of God and i feel for you morally. God as a entity is perfect he makes each and everyone of us with original sin, the nature of man that was the nature of adam, but through baptism or whatever you believe your orginal sin is forgiven, as was adam after he sinned and disobeyed God. But God does not make you evil, God makes us pure, it is the world that corrupts man and man that corrupts man, not God, so trying to use how can God make someone to be persecuted is wrong, because it was what? MANS FREE WILL TO PERSECUTE ANOTHER, not Gods will.

So if God MAKES YOU GAY, and JUDGES YOU TO BE WRONG AND SENTENCES YOU TO DAMNATION ON A MATTER YOU HAD NO CONTROL OVER IT IS PREMEDITATED MURDER, hence God no longer being perfect, and religion as we believe no longer valid.

But since me and another person here thinks the same, God does not make you born gay for that not only violates his purpose for you to be here, but God ability to be perfect.

I do not hate, i do not judge, and yes marriage is the celebration of two people, and it actually says a man and woman union together for the rest of their life...to do what? fidle their thumbs? no to have sex and populate the earth. As such i also think it wrong to committ sex before marriage just as the bible preaches.

I am not perfect but there is a difference between choosing a life of sin, and making a wrong decision for that moment...choosing a life of sin is actually a moral sin and slapping God in the face, its also mentioned many times in the bible how homos will not be in heaven, i wonder why? do you think its possible because in religion its wrong?

i am very tolerant but i also have a choice not to go to a club that is gay, i also have a choice not to join my cuz at a party because of the mountain of immorals that accure at them.

but yet even in science gay is not the nature way, and as in religion.

but what i would like to hear is a solid statement on how you can be born gay, to date not one statement holds water religious or scientific

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by elitewolverine]

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by elitewolverine]

I'm quite happy with my religion. I enjoy the fact that I have an open mind in a religion that would have my mind be closed. It's quite a good experience, in my opinion. It challenges me to think, search for answers, philosophize, etc about my life and how I should live it. I embrace the struggle. I think it's good that it's difficult to struggle; I'd rather that than blindly follow a doctrine or blindly dismiss it as foolish.

I've thought of another analogy that might be able to help you (JOHNSmith) understand what I mean when I can't describe exactly why homosexuality disgusts me. It's like having different tastes for food. Why are some foods gross to you (and not to others)? You can explain it because you don't like the taste, but that's not a good explanation really. I don't like homosexuality maybe because I don't like seeing the act (like tasting a food) but that really doesn't explain it well.

Hopefully that cleared some stuff up for you, JOHNSmith, and anyone else with questions.

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
OK, well I didn't understand your "Adam and Eve" line, elite, but sure, why not. You see, thats what I was saying, exactly what you said. They were born that way, so how can God be perfect, if he made beings that would be persecuted? That makes no sense. I really don't see why someone can be 'anti-gay', because that really just totally disagrees with respecting one another and respecting them for WHAT THEY ARE. I just don't understand..how can you call yourself a good person when you discriminate and hate? Can't you see that all you are doing is sinning yourself? Even if you are not a religious person, every human has that 'feeling' or the conscience, HOPEFULLY, you know when you do something good or bad. As a HUMAN BEING, respect eachother, don't hate...all hate does is build more hate, until it becomes a war. Why can't we just accept people for what they are, and let God do the judging (LIKE THE BIBLE SAYS) and we just love and respect eachother?

-wD

-wD

Aren't you discriminating against me when I tell you that Homosexuality is wrong. Its only discrimination if I tell you what your doing is wrong but its not discriminating when you tell me not approving the homo agenda is wrong. Don't you Hate me for Telling the truth and walking A line?

We now have a good debate, this is only one true answer. Either there is a God or there is not. Either you are wrong or I am wrong. Do you want to see what the God of the Bible says to prove himself that he is real?

Standing Stone

Originally posted by CSRules
This is simple......
Gayness goes against the natural order of things!!!!!

In nature there are gay animals. I know the bible doesn't apply it's rules to animals but what do you mean by "natural order"? I don't think everyone will be gay so it doesn't look like a real population threat. Where's the real harm? What's the real threat? What about being gay harms anyone or anything?

Originally posted by Gazrok

Also, Gazrok. I have to ask you if you would condone incest. Would a brother marrying his sister, or a mother marrying her son be something you would agree with legalizing? They are two consenting adults who can love eachother just as much as two gays can, yet I don't think that's right either. I just want to know what you think.

No, I wouldn't agree with it. And this is really comparing apples to oranges. For one thing, an incest relationship likely STARTED when one was a minor. In any case, it is taking advantage of that trust sacred between mother and child, or sibling and sibling, and as such, is wrong on a moral level.

Second of which, there are serious health reasons for not inbreeding, such as retardation, etc. and insanity. Hell, look at some of the ancient royal lines that practiced it, and the nuts it turned out!

I'm curious to see if anyone's actually looked into the legality of marrying siblings/parents, etc. I'd bet there are likely a few states or areas that it ISN'T illegal....but I'd still disagree that THAT is just plain wrong.

and there is something right in gay relations? you know what the arse of man holds? you mean there is no health risk to sticking you rod in the rear of man? wow i guess its cleaner than we thought, considering the body doesnt want it but i guess anothers mans rod is accepting of the vile stuff that comes out of it.

aids is first thought to come from a monkey that had practiced homosexuality with another monkey, and in tern a pilot who was flying internationally got the disease (the story there is blury for me) but the pilot was a Bi-man, he was thought to be the orginal carrier, but hey go figure that such a vile and terrible desease would come from where? the most vile and disgusting part of the body, where the solid waste is disposed of. hmmm, the black pleague even came from solid waste....

i wonder if nature is trying to tell us something? stay out of the solid waste rear, aids is natures way of controlling the population of people, how ever harsh that may seem its true, natures way of saying what the hell are you sticking that there for, ill show you, and its just sad that it also transfered the other way because of bi's, i feel for people that have gotten aids no matter straight or gay, but i also believe however cold hearted it may seem that in a sense nature is telling the gays something, and somehow i see it right for them to get it, i struggle with that thought, how could i wish hard will on another and to this date the only thing i have come up with is, they had it coming

First off, I know what you mean about it just disgusting you but you can't put it into words. It's just "unnatural" to me to see two homosexuals kissing on a public street, but, then again, I'm against PDA's for the most part. I think it is rather tasteless to see two people kissing passionately in a public place. Now, on to the topic. Yes, I have gay friends, but, no, I don't agree with their choices. I believe that it is wrong. I don't think it is right to bring a child into a homosexual relationship, because I believe it is harmful to the child. I believe that a child needs the masculine presense of a father and the feminine representation of a mother. I believe that it is harmful and selfish for a homosexual couple to force that viewpoint onto a child. I think that for a homosexual couple to raise a child is selfish. They can't support a child, mentally and emotionally, as well as a heterosexual couple, because they can't represent both ends of the spectrum of a marriage. Anyways, can we keep the religious disgussions in the religious forum, guys. That's why we have the forum on the board. To keep the religious disgussions and political disgussions from the rest of the board.

thanx for your cooperation,

regs out...

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by CSRules
This is simple......
Gayness goes against the natural order of things!!!!!

In nature there are gay animals. I know the bible doesn't apply it's rules to animals but what do you mean by "natural order"? I don't think everyone will be gay so it doesn't look like a real population threat. Where's the real harm? What's the real threat? What about being gay harms anyone or anything?

no in nature there is gay acts because the lack of females in a enviorment, which has led to many deseasis in a species of that part where it has taken place over and over, the most horrible being aids....but total gay animals do not exist, in fact the animal that committs a gay act, when given a choice from female to male will choose the female? why because that is their nature, the female releases a scent that the male does not, a scent that the male strives for.....you gay animal theory holds little to no water

I don't know where everyone is getting the info from the bible that says we are not supposed to judge but here is what 1Cor. 6:2-3 Says.

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?
and if the world shall be judged by you , are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this Life?

5) I speak to your shame. is it so, that there is not a wise man among you?

You have to be in bad shape not to be able to tell rite from wrong. Its a real clear line but sometimes we don't see it if we have to much sin in our lives.
So from what this says the Rightous are expected to judge. Puts a little twist to it.
To be Rightous means that our judgment is not clouded by sin. Thats why it is OK. for the rightous to judge and not the ones who are swimming in mud of sin.

(here goes the caps again) AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

[Edited on 5-4-2004 by Standing Stone]

Originally posted by Faisca
I'm quite happy with my religion. I enjoy the fact that I have an open mind in a religion that would have my mind be closed.

Why are some foods gross to you (and not to others)? You can explain it because you don't like the taste, but that's not a good explanation really. I don't like homosexuality maybe because I don't like seeing the act (like tasting a food) but that really doesn't explain it well.

First if you agree that your religion would have your mind closed that should tell you something about it and the people who follow it.

As for your food/homosexual analogy there is a difference. First of all every food I don't like I've tasted. Like raw eel, it has to much of a rubbery texture and the taste is to strong and a bit stringy after you chew it up a bit. Although I like squid because although it has the same rubbery texture it has a more pleasant and less overbearing taste. When I tried both of them I did not have a notion that I would like or dislike either. So for that particular argument I would say for you to drop your preconceived ideas about homosexuality and try it. Than you can truly say if you do or don't like it. It might take you a while to find a guy that you feel attracted to but I'll bet you a cookie that you'll meet one at some point in time.

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by Faisca
I'm quite happy with my religion. I enjoy the fact that I have an open mind in a religion that would have my mind be closed.

Why are some foods gross to you (and not to others)? You can explain it because you don't like the taste, but that's not a good explanation really. I don't like homosexuality maybe because I don't like seeing the act (like tasting a food) but that really doesn't explain it well.

First if you agree that your religion would have your mind closed that should tell you something about it and the people who follow it.

As for your food/homosexual analogy there is a difference. First of all every food I don't like I've tasted. Like raw eel, it has to much of a rubbery texture and the taste is to strong and a bit stringy after you chew it up a bit. Although I like squid because although it has the same rubbery texture it has a more pleasant and less overbearing taste. When I tried both of them I did not have a notion that I would like or dislike either. So for that particular argument I would say for you to drop your preconceived ideas about homosexuality and try it. Than you can truly say if you do or don't like it. It might take you a while to find a guy that you feel attracted to but I'll bet you a cookie that you'll meet one at some point in time.

you mean you want us to try homosexuallity and put us at risk of catching a disease that is laying the arse of a man....dear god man why dont you just swim in you own sht and eat it to....either way its going in you body

but hey if natures diseases cant stop us from wrong, God knows i cant stop you from sticking your rod in sht.

and you have yet to prove that you can be born gay, but our religion is very open minded its our enemies that are not, ever read the bible? ever notice the passage that tells us to love our enemy's? hey go figure, that it comes from a closed minded state that you percieve religion to believe, and my heart goes out to you as well

OK, JOHNSmith, I apparently can't explain what I mean by things that disgust me. Does murder disgust you? Yes or no? Have you ever tried it? Don't tell me it doesn't disgust you, because unless someone is really messed up I don't see how cold-blooded murder can't be disgusting (I'm not talking about accidental or self defense). I know I'll never be attracted to a guy. I'll never have the urge to have any kind of sexual relations with another man, ever.

And about my religion (Christianity) having that I should be close minded, that's a big of an ambiguous statement on my part. Jesus preached tolerance and love of your fellow man (and woman) which is how I try to live my life; and God gave us the 10 Commandments to live by, half of which is a natural moral code to live by that really has nothing to do with religion (though as St. Thomas Aquinas says you can't fully realize those morals without divine understanding).

I'm strong enough in my faith to admit that over the many years that Christianity has been around it has been twisted and molded to fit the needs of the men in control. This is why I try my best to live my life the way Jesus taught; not how those during the time of the Crusades would have me live it.

Hopefully I've made myself clear.

Originally posted by regs
First off, I know what you mean about it just disgusting you but you can't put it into words. It's just "unnatural" to me to see two homosexuals kissing on a public street, but, then again, I'm against PDA's for the most part. I think it is rather tasteless to see two people kissing passionately in a public place.
Anyways, can we keep the religious disgussions in the religious forum, guys. That's why we have the forum on the board. To keep the religious disgussions and political disgussions from the rest of the board.

thanx for your cooperation,

regs out...

On your first point, that's not an answer it's an excuse. you not wanting to see people kissing in public stems from something else that you have been taught in life. Care to share what lead you to that particular decision?

This topic is very political as well as religious, although we are exploring the religious aspect of it I believe the the religious aspect of it is behind the political motivation of making discriminating laws that ban homosexuals from the same rights that non homosexuals have.

The religious aspect goes to the heart of the political matter.

Originally posted by CSRules
This is simple......
Gayness goes against the natural order of things!!!!!
Being gay is not a priveledge or a right......IT IS A CHOICE!!!!! The sooner people understand this the better!!!!! MARRIAGE is between one MAN and one WOMEN to ensure the survival of humanity. Anything else is WRONG!!!!!!
To those who speak of the divorce rate and such.......MAYBE WE SHOUKD TEACH BOB AND MARY HOW TO LIVE TOGETHER, BEFORE WE GIVE BOB AND JOE THE OPTION!!!!!!

SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN!!!

How does marriage ensure the survival of the human race? It doesnt it is a mere formality (legal and religious) i am yet to see any evidence or even plausible theories that state if humans were to stop marrying the race would die out... the last time i checked there were plenty of people who had children who were unmarried now i am sure those children (once older) will also be able to reproduce and so will their kids... the only thing that ensures the survival of the race is reproduction... admittedly gays cannot reproduce so if this is your defense then catholic ministers are unnatural coz they dont reproduce then they are going against nature and thus are unnatural and should be prosecuted...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion... some said it disgusts them (homosexuality) and i accept that... its his opinion... but to claim it is 'unnatural' for whatever reason is complete bull-s-h-i-t!!!

And to all you homophobes out there...

Its is people who sit there and bash gays and are religiously homophobic that turn out to be gay the most... hiding behind a security screen of hate and anger... so all you gay bashers (i am straight but i have many gay friends in my workplace) i guess i'll see you all at mardi gras next year

Originally posted by elitewolverine
you mean you want us to try homosexuallity and put us at risk of catching a disease that is laying the arse of a man.

Use a condom.

JOHNSmith I really don't understand why you can't fathom what we mean by not enjoying watching gays kiss, or heteros having PDAs, or anything along those lines. I really don't. But whatever...

Who are you to ask where he got the idea that seeing PDA's is gross? I tend to think the same thing. There's a place for making out and groping, and that's the home. Perhaps his parents actually partake in PDAs, if that was the case he wouldnt have gotten the idea from them, which is probably what you're assuming. Maybe it's just something he/I don't agree with seeing in public, is that so hard to understand?

People's personal preferences can not be so easily explained. Just as a homosexual can't explain why he is attracted to the same sex, and I on the other hand can't really explain why I like girls rather than guys.

I honestly don't see why you can't get that point...

Originally posted by Faisca
Does murder disgust you? Yes or no? Have you ever tried it? Don't tell me it doesn't disgust you, because unless someone is really messed up I don't see how cold-blooded murder can't be disgusting (I'm not talking about accidental or self defense)

I know I'll never be attracted to a guy. I'll never have the urge to have any kind of sexual relations with another man, ever.

God gave us the 10 Commandments to live by, half of which is a natural moral code to live by that really has nothing to do with religion (though as St. Thomas Aquinas says you can't fully realize those morals without divine understanding).

First point, if you voted for bush you took part in a cold calculated murder of thousands of innocent people. So you have had a part in such an activity, even though you might not have seen it that way when you voted. I can tell you why a needless cold murder doesn't appeal to myself, and I could give you quite a few reasons behind that that make sense and have a very valid point and line of thinking.

point 2 Are you psychic? You know you'll never be attracted to a guy? I know you make that statement with the knowledge you never have been attracted to a guy but things change, the world changes, and you change. You can't tell me what the weather is going to be next month, and unless you have some supernatural power you can't truthfully tell me you will never be attracted to another guy.

point 3. Have you ever seen this mythical stone? Did it really exist? Could it be something someone just put in a book and you were raised to believed it was true? You need to get a better sense of what's going on around you and why you think the things you think because you seem to have a lot of ideas that are based on air.

Originally posted by elitewolverine
you mean you want us to try homosexuallity and put us at risk of catching a disease that is laying the arse of a man.

Dude you can get diseases from a chicks pussy too... does that stop you from beign atracted to them? I dont think so... hell you can diseases eating... i bet you still do that? everything you do can cause you a disease... so why discriminate against something gays do just because you 'could' get a disease from it... and as the infinately wise JOHNsmith has stated... use a #ing condom! (for sex not eating) if your not already using one when (or if) you have sex with a female your a moron!

*correction* your not a moron for having inprotected sex if you are married, or your long time partner is on the pill or have other contraceptives (and has no wierd ailments), or are planning on knocking someone up


[Edited on 5-4-2004 by specialasianX]

Originally posted by J0HNSmith

Originally posted by elitewolverine
you mean you want us to try homosexuallity and put us at risk of catching a disease that is laying the arse of a man.

Use a condom.

if i have to use a condom to have sex, then it was not natures purpose...condom is used as a way to controll pregnancy, not so i can stick my rod in sht...

but since you believe that bush actually ordered 911 i feel for you even further, but that is off the point and should have never been brought in this forum.

2) i know for a fact that im not gay, how? i have seen gays kiss, and i thought could i be gay, then i realized hell no, to dcks do not go together...

thats like trying to put a square inside a cirlce, it doesnt fit, but since we are ignorant to natures diseases and warnings, we forced ie went the back way, the deseased arse, and go figure nature fought back with black pleagues and aids and anything else you might catch....

if it was natures way, why would these horrible deseases exhist because of nature and the horrible things people do?

but plz humor me futher into trying to say how do i know im not gay, believe me i know, but since you try to force that single idea i have to believe you are either bi or gay yourself....and for that im sorry

Originally posted by Faisca
JOHNSmith I really don't understand why you can't fathom what we mean by not enjoying watching gays kiss, or heteros having PDAs, or anything along those lines. I really don't. But whatever...

Who are you to ask where he got the idea that seeing PDA's is gross?

People's personal preferences can not be so easily explained. Just as a homosexual can't explain why he is attracted to the same sex, and I on the other hand can't really explain why I like girls rather than guys.

I honestly don't see why you can't get that point...

Oh don't get me wrong I do understand what you are saying.

Who am I to ask? Who are you not to ask yourself and find the answers within your self. They are there, you do hold the reasons and the answers within your self to the things you say and the things you believe. If you aren't comfortable to explore or state your reasoning behind your beliefs because you don't think they will stand up to reason or you simply don't want to than maybe you should keep those particular ideas to yourself.

I can tell you why I am attracted to women and not men. But I don't think that will tell us why you are.