Originally posted by greeneyedleo
Whether or not I feel drugs should be against the law is actually irrelevant. *shrug*

This is where insanity lay.

Slavery was once a lawful thing too. As was having oral sex with your wife/husband.

How about the difference between right and wrong...Gods law....the law of trespass.

We have a failed drug war and have over 2 million people in prison, mainly because of "the war on Americans" oops I mean "the war on drugs"

Anything to save a buck.. so their jobs and salaries are secure during these times where governments and institutions find less money going their way due to the lack of tax dollars going into their coffers.

As I read a few posts.. I'm seeing a comparison of NWO or if you wish.. the elites running a system where the individuals have no say.

Sure they did the crime so are punished by the system.. but how many may have "excuses"? Was it bad timing.. poor up bringing? Lack of faith in their churches or their governments?

It is so easy to criticize those behind bars who've been judged and sentenced by a person or persons "hired" to do a job within the system.

We just recently hear about how some company, the name eludes me, wishing to fine a teenager for downloading seven (7) songs to a tune of 1 million dollars.. and others who've robbed or defrauded others get only $250k as punishment when they reap millions...

Saved tax payers $$$??? So if that's the case.. your taxes should be going down then right?

If I was ever incarcerated for drugs, or petty crime, I'd never pay for a meal or lodgings. They made the rules and the punishments.. they should provide the "basic" necessities until they re educate me or help me to be a productive member of society. If they are unwilling to or can't. Then let me go and face the consequences of those I live in the community...

Live by the sword... die by the sword.. and eye for an eye..

Oh.. and as for them taking up knitting to make sweaters for the homeless?? Why not supply the material and a location so the homeless can make their own.. and possibly create a market so they can work for themselves.. as the saying goes.. feed them fish every day and they will rely on you.. teach them to fish and they can rely on themselves...


[edit on 18-12-2008 by Willbert]

Having seen how inamtes in jail just loiter and waste time, I would have to say that yes, they should have to pay for rent, food and and service provided to them.

Most of the inmates have plenty of cash for commisary, but don't want to get off their butt to do anything. They are in prison. They should be working in a sweat shop or something. Not humane the liberals will say... MAybe they shuld have throught about that BEFORE they commited a crime No matter what it is.

Prison use to be a place no one wanted to go... Now if you want to boost your street cred, you jack a car or something, get a few months and viola! You're cool.

# THAT! Make prison hell on earth. Make it actaly pnishment, not a vacatin from reality

great ideas... the reason people commit crimes so much is because it does pay! lol you get free meals cable tv and a room.. with no expenses... this should be implemented accross the whole country

To those of you supporting Arpaio's plan:

I hope you fall, crack your skull and wake up Good.

Every prison in the US needs to be audited and follow strict guidelines. Way too often corruption runs these prisons in some form.

As for food, prison farms would make more sense than bologna sandwiches and to help feed those who NOW can't afford to eat such as recently the homeless DUE to our wonderful banking industry and politics that's robbed so many of the taxpayers that paid for these corrupt prisons and politicians.

These are the biggest criminals of all. And this sheriff is part of that system. While he was feeding these guys bologna, the biggest criminals in our wonderful system took the difference. Arpaio was popular then, but not anymore. The biggest fish have gotten away and they're NOT eating bologna sandwiches either. This is token BS public relations diversion.

We'll be lucky if any of us even get to eat bologna sandwiches if things don't change.

People please educate yourself as to the difference between jail and prison. Not everyone in jail is guilty.

Once arrested if you cannot post bail you wait in county jail until your appearance in court. The purpose of the trial is to determine if your guilty. You are assumed innocent until a trial can prove your guilt. Now I think if you're going to have to pay food, rent or whatever while you're in jail then if at your trial you are found innocent then you should be paid for having to spend all that time in jail while being innocent.

Innocent people (everyone awaiting trial) who are in jail should be treated like decent human beings - given clean cells and three meals a day.

If found guilty and sent to prison - different story. (should still be treated decently like human beings of course)

[edit on 18-12-2008 by 2 cents] dang - not writing worth a darn today


[edit on 18-12-2008 by 2 cents]

Originally posted by Dreemer
To those of you supporting Arpaio's plan:

I hope you fall, crack your skull and wake up Good.

Dreemer, you are too kind.

Poverty and lack of economic opportunities are often the main reasons many people commit crimes. Many end up desperate and see crime as a way out of their problem and as a step closer to the "American Dream"(house, car, family..). Education is also a huge factor in the options people have in life and choices made but a poor economy can make anyone end up in poverty.

I believe those that encourage Arpaio's fascist tactics will have the opportunity to experience it up close. Our economy is doing worse, the Fed is pumping out money, and we are likely headed for economic disaster.

If job and business opportunities dry up, let's see if the Arpaio fans still support his policies when they end up working at poverty wages or worse.

Oh, sweet irony.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by nikolat23]

What happened to our humanity???? This guy Joe is a pig of the worst sort. He runs a county jail where most of the people are awaiting trial.

Who would end up paying for the food these inmates eat? Their families. Why should a family have to suffer right along with the inmate????

Prisons make a nice profit off the labor of the people in there. They pay these guys pennies an hour for work that would bring good salaries. Electronics, welding, assembly, and other things are all regularly done in prisons. It is a billion dollar a year industry.

Prison population is counted as population for the counties they are housed in. This gives rural areas and unfair representation in their states, more state and federal money, while the neighborhoods they will return to are largely starving. Criminals do deserve punishment, of that there is no doubt.

Where do you get the idea that inmates get free televisions???? They get two sets of clothing, underwear, socks and one pair of boots. One roll of toilet paper a month, and one bar of soap. IF they don't have any family they have to somehow purchase deodorant, shampoo, toothpaste and other necessities from the $10 or $15 dollars they earn for the work they do. Prison is a nightmare, for those incarcerated and for the family that has done no wrong.

My fondest wish for those of you that think Joe is such a good guy is the following. I hope that someone breaks into your home and you defend your home and end up going to prison for assault or worse. I hope that someone attacks you and in defending yourself you end up with a murder or assault charge. Then you can sit and rot away while judgmental bigots just like you say you deserve to be treated less than human.

Originally posted by redhead57
Where do you get the idea that inmates get free televisions???? They get two sets of clothing, underwear, socks and one pair of boots. One roll of toilet paper a month, and one bar of soap. IF they don't have any family they have to somehow purchase deodorant, shampoo, toothpaste and other necessities from the $10 or $15 dollars they earn for the work they do. Prison is a nightmare, for those incarcerated and for the family that has done no wrong.

Prison should NOT be a piece of cake. It is PUNISHMENT. And their families? The hell families go thru is the fault of the convict.
And spend a Saturday night watching MSNBC show "lock up". That is a real eye opener to the luxuries these convicts can have.

My fondest wish for those of you that think Joe is such a good guy is the following. I hope that someone breaks into your home and you defend your home and end up going to prison for assault or worse. I hope that someone attacks you and in defending yourself you end up with a murder or assault charge. Then you can sit and rot away while judgmental bigots just like you say you deserve to be treated less than human.

Unbelievable. Sympathize with the criminals and wish harm upon those who follow the law. Wow, we truly do live in Alice and Wonderland.

[edit on 12/18/2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
GO JOE!

His policies and steadfast resolve of treating criminals like criminals is an inspiration. People shouldnt think of jail as a free vacation resort, it should be harsh and give them a reason not to commit major crimes again.

But where is the carrot to become reformed?

If we only use a stick, we make the criminal more of a criminal and feel justified. I agree we need a stick, but we also need a carrot.

Everyone who disagrees, especially with my own first statement, has that right. To the statement that they are there against their "free will", you are absolutely nuts. It was their free will that got them there in the first place. They exercise the free will and right to commit a crime against another, as laid out by city, state and federal justice systems. Beyond that, proof of guilt means free will abandoned.

When I was in the military, I was caught speeding on my motorcycle. I was given a speeding ticket and told where to go to pay it. I was young, stupid and stubborn and felt that my military service exempted me above civilian law, so I didnt pay it. When I was processing out of the military, they ran a civilian legal sweep and found the ticket. "Pay up or go to jail." I didnt have the money to pay up, so I went to jail. I was in for 7 days. Back then, in TX, a fine was reduced a certain amount per day spent. I suppose my formerly clean record and military service was enough to raise me to trustee status, which means I earned more because I was required to work. I would have been in there for 15 days, otherwise. I worked all day, everyday. I got 2 meals a day. I learned a thing or two about how it feels to wear that jumpsuit everyday, how it feels to be an inmate with some pretty nasty characters around, and how it feels to be "in the system." I learned a lesson from it.

So, when I make statements about people being in jail for breaking the law...ANY law...I say so from the perspective of someone who spent a week in jail for not paying a speeding ticket. You tell me that drug use, robbery, mugging, assault, child support failure, or anything else is a lesser crime and I will tell you that you should get out from beneath your rock, read up on the law and stop trying to make nice for people who commit crimes.

I support Joe 100% in his determined efforts to recondition criminals, even if it is through fear of his punishment system.

While there is bragging, I would like to brag a little on the penal system in MS. We have 3 state prisons here. They do a lot to reduce the burden of operation on the taxpayers. They run farms to grow and raise their own food, they create items to sell for income, they can be seen regularly on the interstate cleaning up trash, they offer rehad, training and educational programs to help people rejoin society with honest skills. They are not harsh on the inmates, but they are strict. I know people who have been in a couple of them and they dont want to go back, but were not mentally or physically damaged while they were there. They just had to work hard everyday.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
Joe Arparo has saved Maricopa county millions of dollars. He now has taken over the animal shelter and has inmates learning to care for the animals the county must take in. They have taken a budget that was like 3 million and reduced it to a paying concern rather than one that costs the tax payers. If you work at the jail to raise your own food, either in the hog farm or the vegtable and fruit gardens you get payed and eat better. If you don't them you eat peanut butter and balogna sandwiches three times a day. I also love that he makes the inmates wear PINK underwear and suits. You stick out like a sore thumb!

Zindo

Zindo, don't think I have seen a single post of yours I didn't whole heartedly agree with and this last post is no exception.

I have lived in the valley of the sun for many years and have seen the librerals try getting rid of this sheriff for many years but the people love this guy and his policies. I have even enjoyed the so called publicity stunts he is charged with. Invariably they end up working for him as they are always about who he is concentrating on or what kind of crime and crimnal ought to beware in AZ . They made a big stink over his allowing cameras inside the jail to be seen from the internet and his answers to such criticism has always been very simple. Jail is not about rehabilitation, it is about punishment. He doesn't allow smokes or lifting weights, no porn magazines and the only TV you can watch is TBN ha ha.

He has a always open and a vacancy neon sign over the gates like motel 6 and the liberals made a stink about that too in the New Times saying it encourages people. I read that top ten reason not to vote for Arpaio and for the most part it is just BS, all of it.

If Arpaio ran for Governor, some say he would win by a landslide but he has always been happy being a law man and the sheriff here not seeking the the power of anything more than what he is best at and that, thankfully is what he has remained

Originally posted by redhead57

My fondest wish for those of you that think Joe is such a good guy is the following. I hope that someone breaks into your home and you defend your home and end up going to prison for assault or worse. I hope that someone attacks you and in defending yourself you end up with a murder or assault charge. Then you can sit and rot away while judgmental bigots just like you say you deserve to be treated less than human.

Sorry smartguy, Arpaio supported the recent bill to allow people to shoot anyone breaking into your home without the perp being allowed to sue the victims or home owners. You ever spent time in the horseshoe? spent time in tent city? Ever seen the scumbags in that place? You talk as if a large percentage of them are all just victims of circumstance and we should be feeding them filet mignon with a bottle of chateau neuf du pop wine or a bottle of Dom.

The most telling clue to your ignorance is this statement you make and Ill add one which would convey you have some issues of your own you should be dealing with, your own hatred and bigotry. You think you can do a better job? Run for sheriff as THAT would be my fondest wish for someone like you who thinks they know what it is to run a jail in a state where illegal aliens running meth are just south of the border and all the mayor wants to do is becareful not to offend them, or hehe people like you

Our justice system is completely broken and only those with hardened hearts cannot see it. They keep talking about "punishment" or people "getting what they deserve". Punishment exists for one reason....rehabilitation, and anyone with children should know that you dont just punish with a stick, you punish with a lesson where there is also an opportunity to learn and grow included.

There is a name for punishment without the aspect of rehabilitation, and that word is SADISM. All those on here wanting these criminals hurt because they broke laws, they are sadists, who obviously understand nothing of human nature, or of nurturing and teaching. When criminals learn brutality, rape, abuse, and dehumanization in prison, then THAT is what they take home with them!! Only a blind fool could not see that if you treat them as animals while they are in there, they will treat others like animals when they get out.

Maybe its because i work on a psyche ward, but i see everyday that the majority of abusers became that way by first being abused. The majority of rapists where at one time raped and came to perpetrate that upon others. If we truly want our justice system to benefit our society as a whole (and not just our fragile ego's clamouring for false justice) we need them to teach humans to be human, self love, teamwork and community, and dealing with the stresses and difficulties that got them there in the first place.

It is so counterproductive to use violence to prevent crime, and as for the lack of good healthy food, that is criminal. In light of several studies done a few years back, high violence prisons and high violence schools had their regular meals substituted with organic healthy whole foods. They found that just by giving the people essential nutrition that is completely lacking in regular american food, the levels of depression, violence, and other emotional dissorders where greatly minimized. The conclusion was that nutritional deficiencies may also be exacerbating violent and aggressive behavior, and in light of such studies to punish our prisoners by giving them rancid nutrient free food is tantamount to shooting ourselves in the foot.

The reason so many people want to point fingers and spew hate is because they are afraid and dont want to admit that if they were in the same situation as one of these "criminals", if they had been raised similar and had similar experiences....they might be doing the same thing. It is the fear of the demon inside that they are criticizing and damning

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
GO JOE!

His policies and steadfast resolve of treating criminals like criminals is an inspiration. People shouldnt think of jail as a free vacation resort, it should be harsh and give them a reason not to commit major crimes again.

But where is the carrot to become reformed?

If we only use a stick, we make the criminal more of a criminal and feel justified. I agree we need a stick, but we also need a carrot.

Unlike zindo, whose posts I always agree with, yours I never do and this is no exception. You think a carrot is needed do ya ? LOL That's rich guy, that is hysterical. Gee what do you suggest we do? Pay them an incentive every week they are out on probation for obeying the law?

Ridiculous

Originally posted by pexx421
Our justice system is completely broken and only those with hardened hearts cannot see it. They keep talking about "punishment" or people "getting what they deserve". Punishment exists for one reason....rehabilitation, and anyone with children should know that you dont just punish with a stick, you punish with a lesson where there is also an opportunity to learn and grow included.


There is a name for punishment without the aspect of rehabilitation, and that word is SADISM.

Yeah right, pal. Arpaio's a saddist, that's wy he has prisoners torturing dogs so all they learn how to aspire to is to be like the Footbal Player Vick. Oh and the unusual punishment it is to make prisoners quit smoking while wearing pink prison garb challenging their masculinity so must be an exquisite pleasure for the Sheriff huh?

We should make education something as simple as breaking the law to get into the state's university jail system paying for their books and teachers who like the high stakes and the risky challeges of trying to educate tweakers, rapist's, drive by shooters, burgalers, flashers, DUI derelicts etc. Because they are not as smart as the children you use in your analogy about lessons in life. Yes we should add a little something more meaningful to the equation so that these people can go in as convicted pedophiles and come out as educated pedophiles. Maybe they will learn a trade while they're in there but should we blame the jails and the law enforcemnt of our state for not doing what was not their responsibility in the first place. Shouldn't we be looking at solutions people can have access to where they can have something likek this BEFORE they end up in the system?

All those on here wanting these criminals hurt because they broke laws, they are sadists, who obviously understand nothing of human nature, or of nurturing and teaching. When criminals learn brutality, rape, abuse, and dehumanization in prison, then THAT is what they take home with them!! Only a blind fool could not see that if you treat them as animals while they are in there, they will treat others like animals when they get out.

I'm sorry, I didn't know the Jails here in AZ taught such classes as Rape 101 or Brutality for beginers. I wonder where people get the idea from. That when you victimize someone, you do it in a civilized society where taking advantage of the fact that those you are about to violate are LAW ABIDING and that is why most school shooters go into a place where they know no one else is armed.

Then they end up seeing what the world would be like in a place where more like him live, more like those just like him, uncivilized caring not for anyone but themselves.

It isn't the prisons that teach that kind of thing. It is those already about that serving time for being that way and even in there, if someone wants to learn how to be more brutal, I am sure no one puts a gun to there head. If they want to know what it's like to be raped and brutalized, Arpaio doesn't teach that in his jails but there are those who have been that way to others and have ended up in the Jail system where they may very well be a victim of sodomy or rape and in cases like that,

It's called poetic justice





[edit on 18-12-2008 by Aermacchi]

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Aermacchi]