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Long Term Survival Shelters
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I was thinking last night about what to do if one was displaced from your home for an extended period of time from any form of sit-x, say 2 years or
more.
As regular visitors know, some of us here have pre-made bug out locals, some have cabins, some have caves at the ready, but I was wondering what others are thinking long term.
We all have something in our BOB's for temporary shelter be it a tarp, bivvy, tent, etc.... but something that light and small isnt going to stand up over the long haul.
So what is your plan? Build a cabin? Have you ever done it? Do you have a saw and axe in your BOB or BOV? Dig into the earth? Again, have you tried this, do you have a really good shovel? Or did you prepurchase something like this Link and store it in your BOV? Or a wall tent in your BOV?
How do you plan to take care of simple things like heat and beds. Eventually the ground will start to annoy you and a campfire can really do so much.
For those planning to "bug in" this also applies to you. How long can you hold up in your house? Do you have a yard to grow food, can you defend it, how will your house run without electricity and heat on demand? Do you have backup systems in place such as solar panels and a wood burning stove? Do you even have firewood or trees to cut?
We all talk about the gear we have to leave or to stay, our food stocks and such, but simply, if you were out for a good deal of time, which I believe is entirely possible, do you have a plan in place right now for a permanent living structure?
As regular visitors know, some of us here have pre-made bug out locals, some have cabins, some have caves at the ready, but I was wondering what others are thinking long term.
We all have something in our BOB's for temporary shelter be it a tarp, bivvy, tent, etc.... but something that light and small isnt going to stand up over the long haul.
So what is your plan? Build a cabin? Have you ever done it? Do you have a saw and axe in your BOB or BOV? Dig into the earth? Again, have you tried this, do you have a really good shovel? Or did you prepurchase something like this Link and store it in your BOV? Or a wall tent in your BOV?
How do you plan to take care of simple things like heat and beds. Eventually the ground will start to annoy you and a campfire can really do so much.
For those planning to "bug in" this also applies to you. How long can you hold up in your house? Do you have a yard to grow food, can you defend it, how will your house run without electricity and heat on demand? Do you have backup systems in place such as solar panels and a wood burning stove? Do you even have firewood or trees to cut?
We all talk about the gear we have to leave or to stay, our food stocks and such, but simply, if you were out for a good deal of time, which I believe is entirely possible, do you have a plan in place right now for a permanent living structure?
I am not rich like the average American survivalist ), so I have to work on a finite budget, but I still need a secondary location that I can
survive in ( even if rather basically) long term away from my home/ retreat.
So I build a proper BOV, not a jeep like the Americans tend to like for bugging out in, my BOV is a camper van/ expedition van. Self built ,its fully insulated and winterised, has three berths, kitchen, toilet, food storage, 12 v and 240 volt electrics. etc, It comes with a heavy duty canvas awning that provides living space when parked up, and a seperate toilet tent. hopefully I will get a new small diesel genny this year and replace the old, broken and worn out PV cells. Actually the van is due for replacement in the next year or so.
I actually know some folks who live full time in RVs, campers and self builds. you can get some brilliant ideas by visiting www.sbmcc.co.uk, and get a copy of the book Travel Vans by John Speed. I have recently read artricle from people who have over wintered in British Columbia and Alaska as well as in the high Andes in south america in RV,s
A properly built BV can easily provide a full insulated long term mobile retreat that can double up as your main vehicle if money is tight.
So I build a proper BOV, not a jeep like the Americans tend to like for bugging out in, my BOV is a camper van/ expedition van. Self built ,its fully insulated and winterised, has three berths, kitchen, toilet, food storage, 12 v and 240 volt electrics. etc, It comes with a heavy duty canvas awning that provides living space when parked up, and a seperate toilet tent. hopefully I will get a new small diesel genny this year and replace the old, broken and worn out PV cells. Actually the van is due for replacement in the next year or so.
I actually know some folks who live full time in RVs, campers and self builds. you can get some brilliant ideas by visiting www.sbmcc.co.uk, and get a copy of the book Travel Vans by John Speed. I have recently read artricle from people who have over wintered in British Columbia and Alaska as well as in the high Andes in south america in RV,s
A properly built BV can easily provide a full insulated long term mobile retreat that can double up as your main vehicle if money is tight.
I assure you I am no rich American survivalist, took years of work to build my retreat, all with logs cut from my land. Alot of people dont have the
time to do something like that, so they depend on store bought devices, which is fine if its quality. Hence the wall tent or arctic oven. Failed to
mention in my OP, I am in no way connected or tied to that company in any way. Not advertising on their behalf. I have seen their product, but have
never used one.
I like your BOV, would like to see some photos of the inside if you were so inclinded. A very good idea, portable, livable for a long duration, and self built. Meaning its cheaper and you know exactly what you are working with and can select the quality of components to your liking.
Another thought I had, as far as a long term structure would be a plains tipi. Not difficult to set up, very portable, and can be kept warm even in freezing conditions. Getting the outside cover could prove difficult unless to purchase/find a good deal of canvass or have large wild game abundant in your area. Then again, how many people out there have and can set one of these up?
I like your BOV, would like to see some photos of the inside if you were so inclinded. A very good idea, portable, livable for a long duration, and self built. Meaning its cheaper and you know exactly what you are working with and can select the quality of components to your liking.
Another thought I had, as far as a long term structure would be a plains tipi. Not difficult to set up, very portable, and can be kept warm even in freezing conditions. Getting the outside cover could prove difficult unless to purchase/find a good deal of canvass or have large wild game abundant in your area. Then again, how many people out there have and can set one of these up?
Another thought I had, as far as a long term structure would be a plains tipi. Not difficult to set up, very portable, and can be kept warm even in freezing conditions. Getting the outside cover could prove difficult unless to purchase/find a good deal of canvass or have large wild game abundant in your area. Then again, how many people out there have and can set one of these up?
Dunno about Tipis but Yurts which are available from a place in California are suitable for all year use, I believe they were originally used in mongolia where the weather is quite rough. I believe you can read about them in the american magazine called Backwoods Home which is published in Oregon ( I think)
Originally posted by salchanra
For those planning to "bug in" this also applies to you. How long can you hold up in your house? Do you have a yard to grow food, can you defend it, how will your house run without electricity and heat on demand? Do you have backup systems in place such as solar panels and a wood burning stove? Do you even have firewood or trees to cut?
My primary strategy is to bug-in whilst the initial storm blows over and can monitor the situation to make a better decision whether to leave or stay, and have enough building materials currently at hand to secure all ground floor entry points and fortify an area of the cellar that is between two interior load-bearing walls. There's also a connection to the sewer mains for disposing of human waste.
The offgrid power supply shouldn't be any problem, although admittedly the 'emergency food cache' situation needs some serious attention to detail. Access to water isn't really a problem here, there are canals, feeder reservoirs, mill runs, and a fair size river all within a 1 mile radius.
Heating/cooking fuel in the form of coal could be scavenged from the various colliery sites such as Ravensthorpe/Wakefield/etc
Defensive measures will be an interesting part. I have enough ideas on how to turn this small street of terrace houses into a fortification that even Master James of St. George would be proud of...anyone approaching should expect the unexpected!
We all talk about the gear we have to leave or to stay, our food stocks and such, but simply, if you were out for a good deal of time, which I believe is entirely possible, do you have a plan in place right now for a permanent living structure?
The other alternative would be to get my hands on a narrowboat by any means and use that as a mobile floating bunker for long-term living
If you search for Richard Proenneke on google video, you can watch a real pro build a long-term shelter.
He spent May, June, and July of 1968 building his cabin by hand and with nothing but hand tools. The cabin was complete with windows, furniture including chairs, tables, a desk, and a bunk; a log cache built up on poles to store food and goods that needed to be kept away from wildlife; a stone and mortar fireplace. All this by himself, in remote Alaska.
We are lucky to have his documentaries around to study.
Proenneke Documentaries-
Alone in the Wilderness
Alaska Silence & Solitude
The Frozen North
One Man's Wilderness, An Alaskan Odyssey
Alaska off the Beaten Path
Ghost of the Forest
Arctic Dance
[edit on 17-12-2008 by METACOMET]
He spent May, June, and July of 1968 building his cabin by hand and with nothing but hand tools. The cabin was complete with windows, furniture including chairs, tables, a desk, and a bunk; a log cache built up on poles to store food and goods that needed to be kept away from wildlife; a stone and mortar fireplace. All this by himself, in remote Alaska.
We are lucky to have his documentaries around to study.
Proenneke Documentaries-
Alone in the Wilderness
Alaska Silence & Solitude
The Frozen North
One Man's Wilderness, An Alaskan Odyssey
Alaska off the Beaten Path
Ghost of the Forest
Arctic Dance
[edit on 17-12-2008 by METACOMET]
Originally posted by Northern Raider
I am not rich like the average American survivalist ), so I have to work on a finite budget,
Wow that is a serious generalization and totally un-called for.
So I build a proper BOV, not a jeep like the Americans tend to like for bugging out in, my BOV is a camper van/ expedition van.
And my jeep witch is paid for was bought for a few hundred dollars and lovelenly rebuilt piece by piece over time has seats that lay down for sleeping. So yes it can be used as "PROPER BOV" Just for the record there is no proper bug out vehicle. When you bugging out your on the run not camping so why have a Slow visible camper. Might have something to do with ware you live. here we have tons of empty woods to escape to. I Guess when your on an island the story would be different.
Self built ,its fully insulated and winterised, has three berths, kitchen, toilet, food storage, 12 v and 240 volt electrics. etc, It comes with a heavy duty canvas awning that provides living space when parked up, and a seperate toilet tent. hopefully I will get a new small diesel genny this year and replace the old, broken and worn out PV cells. Actually the van is due for replacement in the next year or so.
So you going to build again?
I actually know some folks who live full time in RVs, campers and self builds. you can get some brilliant ideas by visiting www.sbmcc.co.uk, and get a copy of the book Travel Vans by John Speed. I have recently read artricle from people who have over wintered in British Columbia and Alaska as well as in the high Andes in south america in RV,s
A properly built BV can easily provide a full insulated long term mobile retreat that can double up as your main vehicle if money is tight.
Weve got the RV crowd here to. usually old retired people.
Some of the simplest to construct are some of the most flexible and durable. Initially, one needs minimal shelter to start with. Minimal in size.
Depending on the circumstances of threats, initially it may be good to conceal and lay low.
But you can quietly be improving your shelter, even as you are compelled to wait or hide.
A dug-in basic shelter covered with cross-hatched layers of logs will provide a simple, durable, more temperature-moderate shelter. And they are easily camoflaged. Covered with earth, these things will take everything but a direct hit by a 500 pounder.
More than one can be connected by simple tunneling, of course with a cord of wood overstructure for support.
The shelter is something that can always be improved on, always a work in progress. Never be satisfied. Never leave yourself to one entry and one escape.
But you can quietly be improving your shelter, even as you are compelled to wait or hide.
A dug-in basic shelter covered with cross-hatched layers of logs will provide a simple, durable, more temperature-moderate shelter. And they are easily camoflaged. Covered with earth, these things will take everything but a direct hit by a 500 pounder.
More than one can be connected by simple tunneling, of course with a cord of wood overstructure for support.
The shelter is something that can always be improved on, always a work in progress. Never be satisfied. Never leave yourself to one entry and one escape.
Holy heavens! You all are right! And I am late!
An RV is a good ideah, though I'd rather have something...
Like a very small cabin. Totally backwoods with meat and plants abundant. Water is a must. I was thinking New Zhealand for this...
You dont even need power. Have a garden and everything...
Dispose of waste outside... in a ...bathroom sector...xD
Anyway, figured I'd introduce an ideah I talk about with people I know. Self suffiencent colonys. Just like what we are thinking, only much much larger... Let me know.
An RV is a good ideah, though I'd rather have something...
Like a very small cabin. Totally backwoods with meat and plants abundant. Water is a must. I was thinking New Zhealand for this...
You dont even need power. Have a garden and everything...
Dispose of waste outside... in a ...bathroom sector...xD
Anyway, figured I'd introduce an ideah I talk about with people I know. Self suffiencent colonys. Just like what we are thinking, only much much larger... Let me know.
reply to post by TheeJester
Living here on the coast of northwest Florida, we periodically have hurricanes. Keep in mind that folks know these things are coming, but many wait until the last few hours to bust a move.
Traffic is jammed. Tight. Not moving. These folks end up sitting out the storm right in the middle of the storm, sitting in their vehicles.
You may want to rethink your escape and shelter plan assuming that there will be no vehicle movements, and even if one is lucky enough to "maneuver" around some, think of the debris, abandoned vehicles, power lines downed, or even bridges out. Or blocked. Or manned, demanding payment for passage.
Long term survival will in large part be determined on your short term initial survival.
Living here on the coast of northwest Florida, we periodically have hurricanes. Keep in mind that folks know these things are coming, but many wait until the last few hours to bust a move.
Traffic is jammed. Tight. Not moving. These folks end up sitting out the storm right in the middle of the storm, sitting in their vehicles.
You may want to rethink your escape and shelter plan assuming that there will be no vehicle movements, and even if one is lucky enough to "maneuver" around some, think of the debris, abandoned vehicles, power lines downed, or even bridges out. Or blocked. Or manned, demanding payment for passage.
Long term survival will in large part be determined on your short term initial survival.
Originally posted by angryamerican
Originally posted by Northern Raider
I am not rich like the average American survivalist ), so I have to work on a finite budget,
(1)Wow that is a serious generalization and totally un-called for.
So I build a proper BOV, not a jeep like the Americans tend to like for bugging out in, my BOV is a camper van/ expedition van.
(2)And my jeep witch is paid for was bought for a few hundred dollars and lovelenly rebuilt piece by piece over time has seats that lay down for sleeping. So yes it can be used as "PROPER BOV" Just for the record there is no proper bug out vehicle. When you bugging out your on the run not camping so why have a Slow visible camper. Might have something to do with ware you live. here we have tons of empty woods to escape to. I Guess when your on an island the story would be different.
Self built ,its fully insulated and winterised, has three berths, kitchen, toilet, food storage, 12 v and 240 volt electrics. etc, It comes with a heavy duty canvas awning that provides living space when parked up, and a seperate toilet tent. hopefully I will get a new small diesel genny this year and replace the old, broken and worn out PV cells. Actually the van is due for replacement in the next year or so.
(3)So you going to build again?
I actually know some folks who live full time in RVs, campers and self builds. you can get some brilliant ideas by visiting www.sbmcc.co.uk, and get a copy of the book Travel Vans by John Speed. I have recently read artricle from people who have over wintered in British Columbia and Alaska as well as in the high Andes in south america in RV,s
A properly built BV can easily provide a full insulated long term mobile retreat that can double up as your main vehicle if money is tight.
Weve got the RV crowd here to. usually old retired people.
(1) Twas meant in humour, I should have said stinking rich capitalist dogs
(2) You can not reside for any length of time in a jeep, If like most survivalists you have a family you need to provide decent protected sleeping arrangements. My RV will run all day at 75MPH, my friend modifed 4x4 transit with cross country with just about any other 4x4. We are not talking about stuff you would relate to as Winnebago campers, were are talking about stuff you would equate to Sportsmobile off road RVS. We have most of nporthern England, Scotland and wales plus the continent to play in.
(3) You bet I am, Hoefully an Iveco Daily 3 litre or a 2.8 litre Mercedes Sprinter ( Sold as Dodge sprinters in your fair land) 3.5 or 4 meters load bed, extra fuel tanks, 16 inch wheels, High roof or medium roof. This time I will utilise the lessons learned from the Transit ( Ie Insulate first not last:@@ 8 Foot load bed is OK for one person but three need more storage than originally planned for. Next time fit the liesure batteries in an insulated box on the outside or in the engine bay, fit larger but flatter water tanks under the floor etc .
One other benefit is that in my case the BOV doubles up as our vacation transport and accomodation, last year we lived in it for 3 solid weeks, only thing we really could have done with was a washing machine. Next year we hope to do a month over in Germany in it. Also in many cases the BOV can also be your every day drive
[edit on 18-12-2008 by Northern Raider]
When planning for survival you do not have to pioneer the way. Proven methods are available and information is all over the net about them for free!
One long term survival shelter to consider would be a tepee. This has served the
Indians for apparently centuries and it can be broken down and moved if needed. Horses would help with the transport depending on the size tepee you
decide to go with. Learn to tan animal skins to make the cover part, use sinew for the stitching, cut down small trees for the poles, and you should
be good to go.
"When walking through a minefield, do not make your own path, follow in the footsteps of others who have safely made it through."
"When walking through a minefield, do not make your own path, follow in the footsteps of others who have safely made it through."
Citizen Smith. Thank you for that. I really wanted to hear from a bug in person and what they were thinking. Seems like you have put alot of
thought and planning into this, I wish you well.
Meta. Yup, Richard built a fine cabin. However, he planned for a good long time to do this. Even had bags of cement. I would advise against his fireplace however, that would really eat up the wood. In one shot in Alone in the Wilderness you can see a stack from an actual woodstove, but they only show him building the fireplace. Now, come sit-x I hardly doubt you or I will have the time to watch all of these dvd's and take an entire summer to build a cabin. Have you ever built one? Do you have one? I dont mean to sound condesending, but to say watch this movie simply isnt going to help anyone WTSHTF.
Amaxium. I agree, a teepee is a very easy, simple way to constuct a survival shelter. Some tanned hides, 17 poles, and you are good to go. Also, being in a teepee has a strange feeling of warmth and safety in it, they really are something. However, have you ever put one up? Do you know how to cut the hides to form the pattern?
There are alot of good ideas here, teepees, NR's BOV, cabins, etc... but what I was getting at wasnt the theory of a long term survival living quarters, rather, what can you do or what do you have currently set up. We need to know our stuff now, and be ready should disaster strike, to have the theories is fine, but to practice it is another matter all together.
Meta. Yup, Richard built a fine cabin. However, he planned for a good long time to do this. Even had bags of cement. I would advise against his fireplace however, that would really eat up the wood. In one shot in Alone in the Wilderness you can see a stack from an actual woodstove, but they only show him building the fireplace. Now, come sit-x I hardly doubt you or I will have the time to watch all of these dvd's and take an entire summer to build a cabin. Have you ever built one? Do you have one? I dont mean to sound condesending, but to say watch this movie simply isnt going to help anyone WTSHTF.
Amaxium. I agree, a teepee is a very easy, simple way to constuct a survival shelter. Some tanned hides, 17 poles, and you are good to go. Also, being in a teepee has a strange feeling of warmth and safety in it, they really are something. However, have you ever put one up? Do you know how to cut the hides to form the pattern?
There are alot of good ideas here, teepees, NR's BOV, cabins, etc... but what I was getting at wasnt the theory of a long term survival living quarters, rather, what can you do or what do you have currently set up. We need to know our stuff now, and be ready should disaster strike, to have the theories is fine, but to practice it is another matter all together.
reply to post by salchanra
What I am doing right now. Learning and practicing any knowledge which would be helpful if we were to lose electricity.
Agriculture, livestock, tanning, hunting, trapping, herb identification / processing for medicinal medicine, fire starting with various methods (no matches, lighter, or batteries used) (magnifying glass, bow drill, hand stick drill, flint rock), wilderness treatment for various illnesses to wound care and treatment using only that which I would find in the wilderness around my area, water procurement methods and purification without tablets or filters man-made, gathering a pack with necessities light enough to travel on foot.
Imagine we all lose electricity.... How would you survive? Imagine you are dumped into a baron land devoid of all human life..... What do you need to survive?
Just for starters
What I am doing right now. Learning and practicing any knowledge which would be helpful if we were to lose electricity.
Agriculture, livestock, tanning, hunting, trapping, herb identification / processing for medicinal medicine, fire starting with various methods (no matches, lighter, or batteries used) (magnifying glass, bow drill, hand stick drill, flint rock), wilderness treatment for various illnesses to wound care and treatment using only that which I would find in the wilderness around my area, water procurement methods and purification without tablets or filters man-made, gathering a pack with necessities light enough to travel on foot.
Imagine we all lose electricity.... How would you survive? Imagine you are dumped into a baron land devoid of all human life..... What do you need to survive?
Just for starters
i dont know how viable these would be but i have been keeping n eye on these and pondering.
They are fully setup shelters that is rolled into a canvas , u erect them and spray water on them , and they turn into rather a study structure.
Anyway heres the link
Concrete Canvass shelters
They are fully setup shelters that is rolled into a canvas , u erect them and spray water on them , and they turn into rather a study structure.
Anyway heres the link
Concrete Canvass shelters
reply to post by TheeJester
I have a citizenship from an island in the Caribbean. I lived on the island for 6 years. I ran a fishing boat for a doctor and know this area well. We have 32 islands; the people are passive and plenty of food and water. In this area you will never know there is a depression. I have access to 7 acres. This would be the perfect spot to be in, no matter what.
Rod
I have a citizenship from an island in the Caribbean. I lived on the island for 6 years. I ran a fishing boat for a doctor and know this area well. We have 32 islands; the people are passive and plenty of food and water. In this area you will never know there is a depression. I have access to 7 acres. This would be the perfect spot to be in, no matter what.
Rod
Originally posted by Amaxium
reply to post by salchanra
water procurement methods and purification without tablets or filters man-made
Just for starters
on the water procurement and purification. Ive havent given that much thought, but something I should look into. Aside from boiling and running through charcoal nothing pops in my head, any links on stuff you have found usefull?
reply to post by salchanra
Browse all videos available on YouTube and Metacafe on wilderness survival skills. You should be able to use common sense on weeding through to BS ones.
Here is one link which is a great resource. Water Procurement / purification They base thier information off of the US Army Survival Manual FM 21-76. If you do not have this already, you can find the link to one (as well as many other AWESOME resource manuals) on one of my other posts here. Good thing about this link is that there are more mil manuals than you can shake a stick at. Grab it and all other survival type manuals as well as first aid manuals. There are quite a bit. Read em all memorize as much as you can, I will have a printed copy of select pages in my BOB.
Hope this helps get you started. Practice as often as possible. Minimize the blunders and learning curve before your life depend upon it. Water procurement and purifying is the SINGLE most important skill above all. The human body cannot survive without water and can die of dehydration in as little as 3 - 4 days. The human body can go 2 weeks without food, but not water.
Browse all videos available on YouTube and Metacafe on wilderness survival skills. You should be able to use common sense on weeding through to BS ones.
Here is one link which is a great resource. Water Procurement / purification They base thier information off of the US Army Survival Manual FM 21-76. If you do not have this already, you can find the link to one (as well as many other AWESOME resource manuals) on one of my other posts here. Good thing about this link is that there are more mil manuals than you can shake a stick at. Grab it and all other survival type manuals as well as first aid manuals. There are quite a bit. Read em all memorize as much as you can, I will have a printed copy of select pages in my BOB.
Hope this helps get you started. Practice as often as possible. Minimize the blunders and learning curve before your life depend upon it. Water procurement and purifying is the SINGLE most important skill above all. The human body cannot survive without water and can die of dehydration in as little as 3 - 4 days. The human body can go 2 weeks without food, but not water.
I have suppiles to survive a year in my home with my family, food none food and medical, I grow some of our food, have alternative fuel and power
supplies for heating, hot water etc. fuel to power a geni for basic elecs etc.
Although many believe being in the middle of nowhere is safer I believe being in or near to a city is better. When everyone scarpers or dies off the survivors with have access to unlimited supplies of everything.
Although many believe being in the middle of nowhere is safer I believe being in or near to a city is better. When everyone scarpers or dies off the survivors with have access to unlimited supplies of everything.
Originally posted by magicmushroom
I have suppiles to survive a year in my home with my family, food none food and medical, I grow some of our food, have alternative fuel and power supplies for heating, hot water etc. fuel to power a geni for basic elecs etc.
Although many believe being in the middle of nowhere is safer I believe being in or near to a city is better. When everyone scarpers or dies off the survivors with have access to unlimited supplies of everything.
This is wisdom, but better is to bugger off to the back of beyond with your team to dig-in.
THEN return to the cities after a year or so to reap the benefits
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